Interesting take. Not buying it though. It may not be in the rule book but it violates my personal rules. I always call my fouls. For those that get away with it, not my problem...
should I feel bad?
- Thread starter torgy2
- Start date
Interesting take. Not buying it though. It may not be in the rule book but it violates my personal rules. I always call my fouls. For those that get away with it, not my problem...
I don't think it's been a question of cheating, throughout the thread. The original question was "should I feel bad?" The key is sportsmanship. If the rules specifically say you don't have to call a foul on yourself, and that your opponent should call your fouls, then no, you don't have to if you don't want to. It's just more sportsmanlike to do so.
i think ur right neil. it is like babysitting sometimes when u havta go hunt
the opposing player down to tell them its their turn just to find them off
with their buddies doin shots not paying attention and then they think im
guna fill them in on everything that had happened when they shuld have
been watching the match. this is league play everyone ur there cuz u
want to be there and not cuz u have to. if i have to start telling the other
players what happened i might as well take their shots for them too since
they cant seem to do any thing for them selfs and expect everything to jus
get handed to them.
the opposing player down to tell them its their turn just to find them off
with their buddies doin shots not paying attention and then they think im
guna fill them in on everything that had happened when they shuld have
been watching the match. this is league play everyone ur there cuz u
want to be there and not cuz u have to. if i have to start telling the other
players what happened i might as well take their shots for them too since
they cant seem to do any thing for them selfs and expect everything to jus
get handed to them.
well, if the whole team is absent, not paying attn., doing shots, getting lap dances, whatever, just rake all the balls in a say you won then. Why "babysit" as you say. Get the match over with, say you ran X amount of racks, and they missed it! Someone unwilling to do something them self complaining about others not doing something for them self....this is FUNNY! It may just be their responsibility to call fouls on their opponents according to so and so league rules....GREAT! Cheat all you want, and justify it by saying they should watch your every move.
Neil...That's okay, because friends can disagree and not get into a pissing match about it. 
I just feel, for me, that I will forever call my own fouls...regardless of the situation, and I'm not going to let some other schmuck's poor behavior drag me down with them.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I just feel, for me, that I will forever call my own fouls...regardless of the situation, and I'm not going to let some other schmuck's poor behavior drag me down with them.Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Sorry Scott, but we disagree on this one. Maybe you should read the whole thread so you have a better understanding of just where people stand on the issue.
I have seen it too many times where the outgoing player during league has to go find his opponent because he is several tables away doing shots. (booze shots). The rest of his team is over there too. They don't care what's going on, that's their problem. I'm not about to babysit them on the game.
do you call your own fouls when there is a ref and he calls a good hit on you and you know it was bad? this is the more important question for me..... (dont mean to hijack the thread
)there is nothing technically wrong with simply going back to your chair after a foul or missed ball. in fact, i learned on this forum that the rules state once you foul you are not allowed to touch the cb (outgoing players should really never touch cueballs in an ideal world), and are supposed to go sit. BUT, the very fact that you post here would indicate to me you dont feel comfortable with what you did, so i would lean toward the side of yes, you should probably feel bad. but the real truth is, and dont let anybody tell you any differently, that if you simply follow the rules of billiards, you arent doing anything wrong. this means you can foul and simply go sit down.... that is what the rules says you are supposed to do. this is NOT cheating, its quite the opposite, youre complying with the rule-- yet if your rules are different, you have to think about that too.
there are all sorts of rules in sports where it is kind of questionable like this. i always think of the situation if a baseball player slides into second base and gets called safe, but he knows he was out, what should he do? well, watch a baseball game. but each situation is different, there are no easy answers... you just have to do what you feel is right for both you AND your teammates
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do you call your own fouls when there is a ref and he calls a good hit on you and you know it was bad? this is the more important question for me..... (dont mean to hijack the thread
If I had the opportunity to have a ref for any of my games I would better be able to answer the question. The few times I have had someone objective observe a shot, it hasn't been an issue.
I suppose that puts things in a different light, philosophically. I would like to think that anyone being in a position to ref a match would realize the foul, so I wouldn't be in this position.
I'd like to think I would call it regardless, in this situation. I have never been in that position, so I will not state that is what I do. I expect that I would still call it.
BTW, I play league two nights a week, and I call my fouls. Regardless of where my opponents are. I don't feel the need to stoop to their level. I think more of myself than that.
yeah, that situation is a sticky one, i have seen it in pro tournaments where i KNOW the player knows he fouled, but the hit gets called good. anyway, i guess it doenst matter too much either way.
the only think i dont like about your post is the end though, where you say "stooping to their level." i believe there is no stooping or thinking less of yourself involved. you do, so maybe thats why you do it, to overcompensate for a rule you think is bad perhaps. now if it said somewhere in a league or tournament rule that you MUST walk over to your opponent and inform him of any foul, i would think the word "stooping" could be used, but its not like that. i dont think there is ANY reason to think you are "good" and the way others do things is bad. but im all about bygones being bygones as opinions differ and such
yeah, that situation is a sticky one, i have seen it in pro tournaments where i KNOW the player knows he fouled, but the hit gets called good. anyway, i guess it doenst matter too much either way.
the only think i dont like about your post is the end though, where you say "stooping to their level." i believe there is no stooping or thinking less of yourself involved. you do, so maybe thats why you do it, to overcompensate for a rule you think is bad perhaps. now if it said somewhere in a league or tournament rule that you MUST walk over to your opponent and inform him of any foul, i would think the word "stooping" could be used, but its not like that. i dont think there is ANY reason to think you are "good" and the way others do things is bad. but im all about bygones being bygones as opinions differ and such
So what you mean is that you believe it is OK to not call your a foul when you know you have committed one, correct?
That is precisely what I meant by my statement. I don't believe it is OK to foul and not call it. I don't play that way, regardless of how my opponent plays. Thus I won't stoop to that level of play. If you believe that is an OK way to play, then there is obviously no "stooping" involved.
I'm also all about everyone having different opinions, too... whether i agree with them or not.
greyness...
This really is a grey area insofar as some league rules may place the responsibility of calling a foul, on the opponent.
So, then, should it be a knock on someone's integrity if they play by those rules and take their seat without calling a foul on themselves?
I think that is a personal choice and I wouldn't look down on anyone who plays by the rules.
I haven't been involved in very much league play during my life so I'm not up on all of the various league rules regarding this. In order to avoid any confusion, I try to be consistent by calling fouls on myself whenever they occur.
And I always try to pay close attention to what's happening on the table during any meaningful games I'm involved in and, even still, I do occassionally miss a foul that my opponent has committed. I must admit, I do like the feeling of mutual respect that is created when a player calls a foul on himself, especially when the opponent never caught it. :smile:
The answer provided by Maniac in post #3 looked very good to me. :thumbup:
Best,
Brian kc
This really is a grey area insofar as some league rules may place the responsibility of calling a foul, on the opponent.
So, then, should it be a knock on someone's integrity if they play by those rules and take their seat without calling a foul on themselves?
I think that is a personal choice and I wouldn't look down on anyone who plays by the rules.
I haven't been involved in very much league play during my life so I'm not up on all of the various league rules regarding this. In order to avoid any confusion, I try to be consistent by calling fouls on myself whenever they occur.
And I always try to pay close attention to what's happening on the table during any meaningful games I'm involved in and, even still, I do occassionally miss a foul that my opponent has committed. I must admit, I do like the feeling of mutual respect that is created when a player calls a foul on himself, especially when the opponent never caught it. :smile:
The answer provided by Maniac in post #3 looked very good to me. :thumbup:
Best,
Brian kc
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Hmmmm
BINGO...we have a winner. Why can't I accidently move a few clusters with my elbow after my shot, or push a few of my opponents into clusters. They too are fouls, and if they don't see them it should be OK using the weak logic of the OP. Who by the way asked if he should feel bad, but then vehemently defends his position that he did no wrong. Life is short, have a little integrity, just a little.... The world is full of liars, cheats and scoundrels, we can do without anymore.
If I don't hit the rail on a safety shot, and it's on the other end of the table, where I'm in a position to run over and see it....and it falls just short I pick up the cb and hand it to him. I play a lot of safeties, and by making the call on myself, I know I should be penalized because I shot it bad, not my opponent. And why should he be penalized cause he could not see it, I"m the one that F*cked up the shot, and the more I penalize myself and play fair the more I know to play better safeties.... I deserve to lose when I play bad....
BINGO...we have a winner. Why can't I accidently move a few clusters with my elbow after my shot, or push a few of my opponents into clusters. They too are fouls, and if they don't see them it should be OK using the weak logic of the OP. Who by the way asked if he should feel bad, but then vehemently defends his position that he did no wrong. Life is short, have a little integrity, just a little.... The world is full of liars, cheats and scoundrels, we can do without anymore.
If I don't hit the rail on a safety shot, and it's on the other end of the table, where I'm in a position to run over and see it....and it falls just short I pick up the cb and hand it to him. I play a lot of safeties, and by making the call on myself, I know I should be penalized because I shot it bad, not my opponent. And why should he be penalized cause he could not see it, I"m the one that F*cked up the shot, and the more I penalize myself and play fair the more I know to play better safeties.... I deserve to lose when I play bad....
well, that woild be a foul and not in accordance with the rules. if one has an analogy, there has to be a better one than this!
ill state clearly exactly what i believe. after a foul, a player should either say "foul" or simply go sit down in his chair.... either one being just as good. if his opponent asks if there was a foul, i dont care where he was during the shot, he needs to answer yes to this question.
yeah, as long as you dont think you are better than anybody because you do something the rules say you dont need to do, we agree-- i think..... i mean i guess i could have a sort of analogy to the way you think. if i provided simple shot advice to a c player from time to time, and other players didnt.... well, i cant say.... id never stoop tp THEIR level and let that guy shoot the 2 when the one is there etc.
btw, i KNOW (for a fact) it is an ok way to play, as that is what the rules say i have to do. that is what we must go by, the rules. this is really just a case of a sect of people wrongly stating "i do things the right and sportsmanlike way" but you dont, you do it YOUR way. thats it!
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call it on yourself without a doubt. to ME it just doesn't make any difference. right is right. good sportsmanship is valuable. it demeans someone in my eyes if they know they made a foul and didn't call it.
there was one exception(finals of a local 9ball tourney) when a guy in a wheelchair was sharked by three guys flicking their lighters in his line of sight.
he fouled and the sharking player didn't know it. nobody called it or said a word! the loser did not know he had ball in hand and a sure win. karma was a pain to him.the guy in the wheelchair won the tournament! the lighter flickers all left quick! good move for them to leave. the winner did get his thousand $ or so.
i do have to add this: gambling is a different scenario. pay attention to what is happening in your financial world. it is indeed a jungle out there.
there was one exception(finals of a local 9ball tourney) when a guy in a wheelchair was sharked by three guys flicking their lighters in his line of sight.
he fouled and the sharking player didn't know it. nobody called it or said a word! the loser did not know he had ball in hand and a sure win. karma was a pain to him.the guy in the wheelchair won the tournament! the lighter flickers all left quick! good move for them to leave. the winner did get his thousand $ or so.
i do have to add this: gambling is a different scenario. pay attention to what is happening in your financial world. it is indeed a jungle out there.
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haha, i guess this concept just dont sink in..... but yes, i think i agree with you too, right definitely IS right.
Hmmmm
what are you talking about ? According to the OP and some others, if you don't pay attention to my fouls, there is NO foul. The rules say you cannot double hit the cue ball, it says you have to hit a rail, also says you have to hit your own ball first.
But playing by the OP's "rules" I ain't gotta say sh*t if nobody sees me...correct ?
The OP for all intent and purposes, committed a foul, this is a fact that is not in question. It just was not seen by his opponent. I've done the same thing by pushing the balls into a favorable position for me. And technically, it is not even a foul if I move other object balls that do not or would not affect the path of the cb, and the opponent only gets to decide to leave them in the current position or move them back...its his call. He doesn't even get bih for the misdeed (if caught). THe balls just go back where they were, so basically, it is risk free for me...
But if he NO see, he NO get, correct ?
what are you talking about ? According to the OP and some others, if you don't pay attention to my fouls, there is NO foul. The rules say you cannot double hit the cue ball, it says you have to hit a rail, also says you have to hit your own ball first.
But playing by the OP's "rules" I ain't gotta say sh*t if nobody sees me...correct ?
The OP for all intent and purposes, committed a foul, this is a fact that is not in question. It just was not seen by his opponent. I've done the same thing by pushing the balls into a favorable position for me. And technically, it is not even a foul if I move other object balls that do not or would not affect the path of the cb, and the opponent only gets to decide to leave them in the current position or move them back...its his call. He doesn't even get bih for the misdeed (if caught). THe balls just go back where they were, so basically, it is risk free for me...
But if he NO see, he NO get, correct ?
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