An average house cat, or a grumpy house cat?
Should the TAR table stay as is or go to standard pockets? You choose.
- Thread starter JCIN
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An average house cat, or a grumpy house cat?
Take it the next step. If you go with 4 1/4, you are .125 from 4 1/2 and .125 from 4 1/8. We know 4 1/8 is different enough from 4 1/2 or else you wouldn't be making this poll.
Freddie <~~~ gonna watch no matter what, but 4 1/4 would be my vote
Folks:
A question to think about, if I may:
Q.: Why do we like to watch pros match up on TAR? In other words, what's the difference that TAR offers, over watching, say, the same two pros match up in the U.S. Open, or DCC, or SBE, or any other large tournament, on the "same" 9-foot tables?
I'd like to offer up what I think are the following:
I'd like to think *all* of these reasons are why folks tune in to TAR; maybe not so much in the order shown above, but they are there in some way/shape/fashion.
The equipment *has* to play a factor in what makes TAR unique. The equipment has to be above par, more so than the fly by night table setups at e.g. U.S. Open, some poolhall somewhere, etc. The equipment has to be challenging, but still fair.
Thoughts?
-Sean
A question to think about, if I may:
Q.: Why do we like to watch pros match up on TAR? In other words, what's the difference that TAR offers, over watching, say, the same two pros match up in the U.S. Open, or DCC, or SBE, or any other large tournament, on the "same" 9-foot tables?
I'd like to offer up what I think are the following:
- Longer races.
- A quiet non-intrusive atmosphere conducive to player concentration, good focused commentary, and rapport between the players themselves.
- More challenging equipment. It's known as "the TAR table" and has become a "control reference" in many ways. You'll hear folks say, "I'd like to see that same match played on the TAR table," or "that shot played on the TAR table," etc.
- Fruit at the end of the match -- i.e. a winner is determined at the end of the match, and it's not "just one match of many" in a tournament.
- Support good folks that support the sport we love.
I'd like to think *all* of these reasons are why folks tune in to TAR; maybe not so much in the order shown above, but they are there in some way/shape/fashion.
The equipment *has* to play a factor in what makes TAR unique. The equipment has to be above par, more so than the fly by night table setups at e.g. U.S. Open, some poolhall somewhere, etc. The equipment has to be challenging, but still fair.
Thoughts?
-Sean
Yes I know its not a big difference but its the difference between some of those shots the players missed during TAR 30 either going in or not. I would ask Glen how big the difference is. If I had to vote though with only those two choices I would rather see the tight table then buckets. I appreciate seeing a run out and the strategy on a brutal table as opposed to someone just stringing racks on big pockets, the races would be going too quickly on 4.5 inch pockets.
Nope. Your candidate lost in the primaries Fred.
Sorry.
Shouldnt of got caught with that hooker in his trunk.
Howdy Sean. I certainly respect your opinion and I do understand why you make the points above. I do disagree thought that equipment HAS to play a factor in what makes TAR unique. Their format and the 1 on 1 headsup matchups are what make TAR unique to me. Further, at least IMO, pool desperately needs to have standard equipment on tables. Variance from event to event frustrates me as one who appreciates statistics. I like comparing B & R results and other metrics played on as similar of conditions as possible.
Baseball is a good comparision as there are some serious stats freaks as fans of that activity. But in baseball, you don't see fans saying, you know what, we now have the two best teams matching up for the world series, we should really reduce the strike zone so as to make it more difficult for the pros to put wood on the ball. Does not make sense to me. In fact, if anything, the baseball folks saw fit to EXPAND the strike zone so as to increase homers in order to excite and therefore increase their fan base.
Pool has been going in the opposite direction. GC tables had more generous pockets. Then the Diamond Pro came along and made a more challenging table. I think that they have the challenge fair enough. Time to draw the line in the sand, at least for me, in order to encourage our sport to grow.
All my opinion of course, and all worth exactly what you paid for it, but I really want to see pool's market grow. We need new players and more viewership desperately. Tightening pockets and encouraging less aggressive play will really reduce our chances as a sport of expanding that fan base.
Nice catch.
I think its a shame that pool doesn't haven't a standard we all, pros and ams alike, play on.
I prefer, as a fan, watching the Masters golf, where the pros go low and tear the course up, to the US Open, where the course tends to be toughened to where the pros shoot par (or worse).
I know with pool, if you play to 4.5 pockets, the top, what ?, 50 ? , players in the world seem to just run out over and over again, but somehow even on tests like that, the cream still manages to rise to the top. I don't know how, for example, Shane, manages to win the last TS event when EVERYONE who had the skill to make it to the last day had the chops to run out at will. Yet he still does, and that's the mark of a champion.
I prefer to see these guys running racks rather than struggling. I know ALL about struggling on a pool table and I'm not a fan of seeing the tables toughed to the point where great players start to look like me at the table.
These guys play way better than me and for my money, I'd rather see them on equipment that showcases that ability, rather than a table toughened up to the point of making them look "normal".
Thanks
Kevin
I prefer, as a fan, watching the Masters golf, where the pros go low and tear the course up, to the US Open, where the course tends to be toughened to where the pros shoot par (or worse).
I know with pool, if you play to 4.5 pockets, the top, what ?, 50 ? , players in the world seem to just run out over and over again, but somehow even on tests like that, the cream still manages to rise to the top. I don't know how, for example, Shane, manages to win the last TS event when EVERYONE who had the skill to make it to the last day had the chops to run out at will. Yet he still does, and that's the mark of a champion.
I prefer to see these guys running racks rather than struggling. I know ALL about struggling on a pool table and I'm not a fan of seeing the tables toughed to the point where great players start to look like me at the table.
These guys play way better than me and for my money, I'd rather see them on equipment that showcases that ability, rather than a table toughened up to the point of making them look "normal".
Thanks
Kevin
My comparison is more in the direction of golf. You can play Augusta from several tees during the entire season except one week. During that week the players play from the longest tees. The rough is exactly that. The greens are cut to within a fraction of their minimum survival length. I like the TAR table exactly as it is. The best players playing on the toughest equipment. Make it easy and who would care!
Lyn
Holy crap I'm bad!!!! I won't edit it though. I need to be bashed on that one.
Freddie <~~~ it's the fuzzy math.
The data presented by AZB'er Atlarge show that over a statistically large sampling primarily on Diamond Pro tables with standard pockets (as this is what most tourneys are played on these days), pros tend to run out 9 ball from the break 21.9% of the time and they run out 10 ball 17.62% of the time.
I don't think that these B & R percetages are too high for either game and, at least to me, do not support the position that 4.5" standard cut pro pockets are too loose, or converseley, too tight. To me, they are fair and make for some exciting play.
As an aside, have you ever stopped to observe that both golf and pool are 4 letter words???????
As an aside, have you ever stopped to observe that both golf and pool are 4 letter words???????
And that playing either one will more than likely elicit 4-letter words from the players??? :grin:
Maniac
Kevin,
Standardization works no where else in pool. Why should pocket dimensions be different? Can we demand all pool rooms use the identical lighting fixtures and bulbs? Identical cloth? Identical object and cue balls? To me, Justin has a great formula. Is it too tough? Just the way I like it! I want to see those guys do what great players of every era have done. Adjust to the conditions!
Lyn
ill have to agree with some posters that 4.25 would be ideal.