Side to Side ball movement at slow speeds?

H

hotwls13

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I posted this in the main forum, but they suggested I post over here:

I have had my 8' Olhausen for almost 2 months. It is the Sheraton with Accufast Rails and Championship Tour Edition felt. 3 weeks after installation, I had the guys come back out cause it needed re-leveling and I had a lot of movement. They re-leveled and said the "movement" would go away after about a month and that this was typical for "professional felt". It has been over a month since they were out and I still have a lot of slow ball movement. Some of it is just cue ball wobbling at the last few rolls, and some of it is actual trailing right or left. It isn't as though the table is just out of level, it's like it is following the grain of the felt (the way it was stretched).

I have mapped it all out and I have several spots where the cue ball just wiggles before stopping and others where it drifts right or left.

Is this typical and I am just being anal or should it not be this way. It just really bothers me to see movement like this, and it forces me to take harder shots when I need to shoot soft.

Please advise as I am going to be calling my installers soon.
 
I install Olhausen in Cincinnati and Dayton, Ohio. In my experience, with a non-worsted cloth (nappy?) you'll see some of that back and forth when there is still a lot of grain to the cloth before it is worn in. It could also be cheap balls. If you have a ball that is not perfectly round or not perfectly weighted, you'll see that "wobble" Some things to consider. If you have a worsted cloth and good Aramith balls, there's a chance that the slates are not perfectly level.

Sounds dumb, but I've seen some balls roll out too if the table is near a vent/fan. Actually got in an argument with a guy at a league match one time in the summer because I wanted to turn the fan down. ;)

Some things to think about. Hope this info helps. Good luck!
 
cloth

This may sound stupid, but i have seen it done before. Make sure the cloth was installed the correct side up.
Thanks, LCCS
 
It sounds like your balls. What kind of balls do you have? Also, do you only notice the movement with certain balls. Get yourself a set of aramith balls, if you still notice the problems you will need to find a good mecanic.
 
ball movement

Could be the cloth we had a table at one of the local rooms that had the same problem. On slow roll shots the ball would either roll off line or at the end of the roll move one way or the other. turned out to be the cloth as soon as it was changed out the problem went away. Old cloth was Brunswick with teflon coating new cloth was Simonis
 
LCCS said:
This may sound stupid, but i have seen it done before. Make sure the cloth was installed the correct side up.
Thanks, LCCS
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I had a guy install Simonis cloth for me. I was at work and when I got home and nearly Cried. He thought it was like Mali with the nap up. he fixed it for nothing.
 
Thanks for all the input guys.

1. I upgraded to the Standard Aramith (in the white box) balls in the beginning, so I don't think it's the balls.

2. As far as upside down cloth, I don't know how to tell. I can tell by looking under the table that the Tour Edition writing that goes around the edge is not backwards.

So, if it's not the balls, and not upside down cloth, the consensus is either bad install on the cloth (not stretched evenly) or something screwed up with the slate?

I paid extra for the Worsted Championship Tour Edition cloth cause I wanted good/great cloth. I am worried that since they don't usually use this cloth, they may have screwed it up.
 
From what you are describing, it sounds as if the cloth wasn't stretched evenly across the slate - when that is not done correctly, the cloth will be loose in some areas and tighter elsewhere, causing the roll and play of the balls to be inconsistent.

Maybe you can get with Mike House and get a better answer - he knows much more than I do & he's one of the best in the country - he posts on this forum - screen name M HOUSE.
 
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hotwls13 said:
1. I upgraded to the Standard Aramith (in the white box) balls in the beginning, so I don't think it's the balls.

QUOTE]
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hotwls13 said:
I do know that the Standards (Crown balls) are the lowest level Aramith balls. What I don't know is how true they are (true = perfectly round and balanced). I would assume being Aramith that they are good, but I don't know that for sure. Those Crown balls in the white box are at the bottom, then Aramith's line goes:

Premier
Premium
Super-Pro

Every thing above the Crowns lists their quality specs, but they normally have those Crown balls in a kit and don't list the specs for them. You might contact them and ask?

http://www.saluc.com/html/billiard/index.php?idlien=10

I don't want to assume how much you know about the assembly of pool tables, so please don't be offended if I talk too slow here, but the other thing I would try is to take a 2' carpenters level and check your table out. I know I'm going to get bashed for saying that LOL but a 2' level will fit on a single piece of slate. 3 pieces so with the level along the side rail, check the playing surface near the ends and in the middle. Also check along the end rails. Also check from around the middle diamonds on the side rails out to the spot in the center of the table at each end. (Don't put the level on the spot, that will affect it! LOL) If it is not level in all directions the problem is probably be in the slate and you should call the installers. If my description here doesn't make sense, I apologize. I can draw a diagram of all the directions and spots I would check if you would like or give me a call if it doesn't make sense.

I hope this information helps. If it doesn't, I'd call the installers if it was my table.
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I guess since I'm sitting here freezing my butt off, waiting on some short, fat, ugly female to respond to my request to act as earmuffs for as long as I'm in Minnesota while I'm trying to deliver and set up this Diamond 9ft Professional, I have a few minutes...as they can't ALL move that fast....because it's to frigging COLD!...-36 below!!!!!

Anyway, if the cloth tracks the balls, it'll track any ball over the same area in the exact same way, given the same speed, and same path to travel.

If the balls are not true rolling in one direction, then if you turn the ball around 180 degrees, it should roll in the opposite direction, given the same speed and pathway.

If the cloth is not tracking the balls, and the balls are not taking opposite turns, then the only other thing to consider is the level of the slate. In all worsted wool cloths you can see the grain patter of the cloth, so if the balls are not rolling with a consistent roll related to the grain of the cloth, it's not the cloth rolling the balls off.

With all other possible reasons eliminated, the only thing left is the slate level, or grind of the slate, still falling under the level of the slate category.
 

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Glen - you must be up in Northern MN. I left that tundra for the warmer winters offered in NC. It's 27 here right now but, at least the sun shines in this state during the winter months. (looks like your pic has sun spots to eh?!?! LOL)
 
Thanks guys. I will try to get a level on it. I will also try rolling some balls besides the cue ball. That kinda sucks if it's the balls as I could have easily (and cheaply) upgraded to the next level, but I like the look of the #'s on this level of aramith.

I will report back with my findings.

I plan to call my Pool Table co. (That's what there called The Pool Table co.) on Tuesday. So there is a possibility that the actual cut/surface of the slate could be causing this?
 
hotwls13 said:
Thanks guys. I will try to get a level on it. I will also try rolling some balls besides the cue ball. That kinda sucks if it's the balls as I could have easily (and cheaply) upgraded to the next level, but I like the look of the #'s on this level of aramith.

I will report back with my findings.

I plan to call my Pool Table co. (That's what there called The Pool Table co.) on Tuesday. So there is a possibility that the actual cut/surface of the slate could be causing this?
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Doubtful. I'd say it would be possible on bare slate uncovered, but when it's covered, I'd say the grain in the cloth is deeper than the grain in the slate. Shouldn't affect it.

Let us know what you find out when you call them. Good luck!
 
run your hands on the cloth and feel for speed bumps from a loose thread or residue from the slate sealer ie wax, bondo or durhams... also see if you can move the bed cloth by hand like form ripples or scrunch it up in a ball I think your cloth might be loose then tight like the staples are 4-6 inches apart. Did the installer use spray glue may have sprayed the playing surface by mistake.

Do you use powder on your hands or chalk your cue over the table?

I have had bad cloth from championship that had a a thread or 6" extra material in the middle of the cloth like they tied a fishermans knot to reattach the next spoll of thread.

Does the rail cloth feel loose r real tight on the rails if its to tight the rails wont have any bounce they'll play dead?

Does the cloth look the same on the rails as the bed cloth all look shiny and not fuzzy?

I had a simuliar problem with that Brunswick teflon cloth Its champion tour edition with teflon but it felt canvas denim levi material the balls had funny rool patterns like you were explanian earlier. It was the customers own cloth but I would never gamble on it it just feels wierd...
Champion tour edtion I love.

Look under the slate and see how thick the shims are if it was installed right there shouldn't be alot a thick shims under the slate. I thinking they didnt level the frame first and threw abunch of shims under the slate and or stripped out the slate screws. Even though the slate seams are flush your slates are a roller coaster up and down that would cause some funny rolls. take a level to the slates independently see how they look or lay a straight edge on the seam and see if it teewters up & down...

best of luck,

Craig
 
I'm not a mechanic, but I'll echo the posters who suggested it might be the balls. I'm not a great shooter, but I could not BELIEVE how much truer the Aramith Super Pros roll than the balls that came in the "premium" accessory kit. Those were cheese!

(I should have read the entire thread. If you have any of the Aramith ball sets, they're probably NOT the reason for the roll-off.)

Tom
 
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ball tracking

hotwls13, I just bought and set up an Elitte Pro 5x10 3 cushion table with Gorina Granito M cloth at my home.I think I know what you are talking about.After about six months of use I noticed the odd tracking of cueball at slow speeds.I noticed that the cloth has numerous shinny spots about 3/16 inch in diameter,possible burn spots were the cue ball is shot from.If I slowly roll a cue ball over the head spots I notice that it tracks into the burn spot area.Maybe the nap is slightly burned away leaving a slight depression.I am not a mechanic,maybe King Cobra or SD can comment.
 
I would say your prabably right. I'm not familiar with the way Gorina wears but it sound like you play a awful lot of pool or your cloth is wearing fast.
 
Latest Update

I finally had time to have someone out to look at the table again. It was the owner that came out. What a crabby old bastard. Tried to say at first that that's just the way pool tables play. Then asked how much I play or how long I have been playing. Then goes on to say he can't see any of the problems I am describing but in the same breath saying he only has one good eye and isn't a very good shot. I showed him a couple problem spots on the table where the ball would drift a whole ball width when rolling slowly by. I proceeded to tell him I have two good eye's and common sense as well. It basically seemed like he didn't want to deal with it. I had said that I had done some research and found that it could be a mutitude of possibilities from the balls, felt, slate, etc. He said something to the effect of don't believe everything you read on the internet. We started to pretty much argue back and forth until he finally said "what do you want me to do?" I told him to fix it. I said, your the pool table expert, I work on computers for a living. This is why I didn't buy some cheap chinese table. He had noticed that the installers screwed up and didn't fill in the slate holes on the ends by the rails. He said the installers did screw that up and they would have to fix that anyway. He suggested replacing the felt with a slightly slower one, I can't remember the name, but it started with a M. So, he is ordering new felt and they will be out in a couple weeks to replace it and fill in those holes. I believe the installers are used to installing cheap felt that doesn't have the grain like expensive worsted wool cloth. I believe that when they stretched it, some areas are tighter than others and if it was a slower nappier cloth the ball wouldn't follow the grain as easily. The owner had also made the comment that it amazes him when people want the "commercial" grade cloth for home use. I said, it amazes me that more people spending $2000 or more on a table don't spend the extra $50 on "Professional" quality felt. I said the "Commercial or Professional" stuff plays faster and that's what we would see in a tournament. He basically said the worsted wool stuff was more about constant use and wear.

Anyway, we will see in a couple weeks how this new felt works out.
 
Only cloth I know that starts with an M is Mali.
Slighty slower? Personally I'd tell the dealer you don't want it mostly because the speed and precision difference
between it and Tour Edition is night and day.

Rule out the ball set -
1. Take the set to another table and see if it acts the same. If so it's the ball set.
2. Borrow a ball set that you know plays right.
If you get the same problem then my guess is that the slate honing is off in places, the level may be slightly off or the cloth is defective.
 
Mercury Ultra by Championship is what he is going to use. I'm pretty sure it'snot the balls, as I have tried different balls, and they all are moving in the same directions. I would think it was the balls if they were always going in different directions. If I give up a little speed for accurate felt, I can live with that. I really feel like I have no choice. Theres only one place in town that deals with Olhausen. I can't afford pay to have someone else to come here and look at it or fix it. If this new cloth doesn't fix the problem, I will just call Olhausen corporate.

EDIT: I just checked this stuff out at the Championship website. It doesn't appear to come in Tan/Camel. My current color is Camel, and he said it does come in this color. Maybe there are new colors available?
 
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