Simplest answer why diamonds play/bank short

kevoka said:
Thank you for doing this.

It has been my experience, playing on the random tables in various places, that each rail will have slightly different characteristics as well. It is always a crap shoot.
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Some tables are better and more consistent than others (depending on the table mechanic), but I agree with you in general.

Regards,
Dave
 
realkingcobra said:
Different in what way?
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The room I play at has one table where if you go clockwise three cushions for the standard corner-5 to get to the opposite corner, you have to play a whole diamond different on the first rail than if you play counterclockwise.

I was demonstrating a spot-on-the-floor one-rail system to a student in a different pool hall. The system is deadly accurate. We were working along a long rail and we got to a section of rail that was way off. A foot farther up the rail and the system worked again.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The room I play at has one table where if you go clockwise three cushions for the standard corner-5 to get to the opposite corner, you have to play a whole diamond different on the first rail than if you play counterclockwise.

I was demonstrating a spot-on-the-floor one-rail system to a student in a different pool hall. The system is deadly accurate. We were working along a long rail and we got to a section of rail that was way off. A foot farther up the rail and the system worked again.
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Question for you is...has anyone changed the cushions in the past, or is the table factory stock? I can list plenty of tables that no longer play the way they did when new, after they've been worked on by a lot of other people. So when things like that happen, it no longer represents the factory table....so why do people presume it does?
 
I have a Blue Label Diamond.
I'm definitely not a good enough player to realize the subtle differences in tables. But somehow I'm a pretty good banker.
I play weekly at my local room on GC's.
I'm just as accurate there with no "adjustment".
 
realkingcobra said:
Different in what way?
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Note- I do not get to play on top self tables very often, so I just map the table behavior if I have time.

When I get to a table I have not played on before and I have the time, I will run the 5 corner test from each corner clockwise and counter clockwise with no English. You would be surprised at the difference.

I will also test each section of the long rails for a side pocket to corner pocket cross bank at slow rolling and stun shot banks (again no cue ball english) to determine the spread of the aim point. Again, the variance can be noticeable for each rail section

An example is the table I practice and play on the most on (an Alltech 88 in x 44 in home table) at the local bar. Yes a crappy table, but hey a free table to play on.

The variance of the aim point for rolling versus stun for each rail section in the second test varies from 2 inches to 3.75 inches. Yeah, it is that big of a difference.
The mirror method of banking on this table failed miserably, so it made me really delve into paying attention to the effects of speed for each rail section on bank shots wherever I play.

I have also run these tests the Gabriels billiard tables at Mile High Billiards. There is a small but noticeable difference on each rail section on each table.
 
On 6 different occasions I've been asked to do service calls for customers 7ft ProAms over the years. Customers all had the same complaints, the cushions were dead. At everyone of the locations I got the full showing of how the cushions played so slow as compared to how the tables played when they were new. On all 6 tables, I got out my torque wrench and tightened the rail bolts to 15 ft lbs and then asked them to try out the table, much to everyone's amazement, every one of the tables played like they did when the were delivered new. Then I charged each one of them $200 for my time there! They were all suprised at my charge, some even said I didn't do anything....to which i replied,....yes I did, I did YOUR job, had you checked the rail bolts for tightness once in a while.....you would have never had a complaint!!!
 
The players that have game adjust to any table as long as the table conforms to general specifications set forth by governing bodies. That's why the home town player has the advantage over the road player assuming the skills are comparable. Great players never complain about tables. Just look at what the Philippines have to offer in terms of good equipment. They still match up and gamble with the chickens crowing and motorcycles humming outside the poolroom.
 
realkingcobra said:
Question for you is...has anyone changed the cushions in the past, or is the table factory stock? I can list plenty of tables that no longer play the way they did when new, after they've been worked on by a lot of other people. So when things like that happen, it no longer represents the factory table....so why do people presume it does?
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Damn human beings keep getting in the way. They screw everything up! We need more robots taking care of things. That's the only way to go. :thumbup:
 
realkingcobra said:
On 6 different occasions I've been asked to do service calls for customers 7ft ProAms over the years. Customers all had the same complaints, the cushions were dead. At everyone of the locations I got the full showing of how the cushions played so slow as compared to how the tables played when they were new. On all 6 tables, I got out my torque wrench and tightened the rail bolts to 15 ft lbs and then asked them to try out the table, much to everyone's amazement, every one of the tables played like they did when the were delivered new. Then I charged each one of them $200 for my time there! They were all suprised at my charge, some even said I didn't do anything....to which i replied,....yes I did, I did YOUR job, had you checked the rail bolts for tightness once in a while.....you would have never had a complaint!!!
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I'm going out and buying a torque wrench today!
 
They don't bank short, the other tables bank long and always have.

Now adjust your aim or GTF off the table.

There's your short answer

JC
 
realkingcobra said:
On 6 different occasions I've been asked to do service calls for customers 7ft ProAms over the years. Customers all had the same complaints, the cushions were dead. At everyone of the locations I got the full showing of how the cushions played so slow as compared to how the tables played when they were new. On all 6 tables, I got out my torque wrench and tightened the rail bolts to 15 ft lbs and then asked them to try out the table, much to everyone's amazement, every one of the tables played like they did when the were delivered new. Then I charged each one of them $200 for my time there! They were all suprised at my charge, some even said I didn't do anything....to which i replied,....yes I did, I did YOUR job, had you checked the rail bolts for tightness once in a while.....you would have never had a complaint!!!
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I believe every part of your story except the 200 bucks. Your heart is just too soft. I bet it was only 100:grin:

JC
 
JC said:
I believe every part of your story except the 200 bucks. Your heart is just too soft. I bet it was only 100:grin:

JC
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No, I charged the $200 because I tried to get everyone of them to check how tight their rail bolts were before I wasted my time driving out of my way to check them myself, every one of them said the bolts were tight, they were to lazy to check!!!
 
JC said:
They don't bank short, the other tables bank long and always have.

Now adjust your aim or GTF off the table.

There's your short answer

JC
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This is a fun way of looking at it! LOL :)

I am sold on the "Its not the arrow, but, the indian" Motto !

Trent from Toledo
 
realkingcobra said:
No, I charged the $200 because I tried to get everyone of them to check how tight their rail bolts were before I wasted my time driving out of my way to check them myself, every one of them said the bolts were tight, they were to lazy to check!!!
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They should said have said nice job...Thank You and here’s the $200.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Simplest answer is they don't use Super Speed cushions.
They have Artemis.
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I am pretty sure most red labels have black diamond k55 cushions. They started using the artemis towards the end and then changed to blue label. RKC can chime in with exact details.

Trent from Toledo
 
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