Sky weighs in on WPA...

[BasementDweller]

Yours is an well-reasoned, excellent post, outlining some of the tricky aspects of the moment for the pros in our sport, but this statement doesn't make sense. It is hardly incumbent on any player to pre-announce what they will and will not play in, and if they change their mind after publicizing a decision, who other than the event producer is affected?

Pro pool has no motto, no credo, no prime directive and each must manage their career as they please.

I get it -- we live in a world where people use their words very casually, especially on social media. I don't like that. So my point is simple -- if you value how people view your integrity, don't post one thing on social media, and then when given the first opportunity to abide by your statement, abandon it. If you do this you lose a little credibility in my book.

None of this is a big deal to me though. It does sound like Albin addressed it properly, while Filler may have ignored it. Just a small ding against him, but I'm sure I have bigger dings in life against me.

 

[skogstokig]

Bravo Sky. I thought It was weird Fedor is all about it but his girl competed in the women's event in New Zealand, wasn't that a WPA event also??

lets not confuse things here - for women players WPA is not only doing good things, it's the ONLY place to be. the predator events have been a great elevation for women's pool

 

[AtLarge]

Thanks for the link. ...

Looks like the list you posted, with Gorst at $332k is for the last 12 months. The list posted earlier, with Gorst at $451k, looks to be for 2 years.

 

[AtLarge]

... None of this is a big deal to me though. It does sound like Albin addressed it properly, while Filler may have ignored it. ...

Filler put out a statement before the World 8-Ball event -- see post #87 here: https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...zealand-winner-75k.567788/page-5#post-7930129

 

[JAM]

Guess not everyone likes the Matchroom concocted Kool-Aid. They are beginning to realize it can starve them and their families to death

Not everyone can make a living playing Matchroom events only. That's the reality of life.

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head!

 

[JAM]

Thanks for the link. This is what I thought. Only two players making $100k plus. Only nine players making $50k plus. And most are close to or below the poverty level. If you decided that pro pool is for you and you think you can make a "decent" living, you can't miss events.

View attachment 779496

Thanks for the share. It is important to remember when a pro player travels the globe two and three times a month and sometimes may not win, place, or show, they're stuck. Just a guess on my part, but I would guesstimate 30 to 40 percent of pool income goes to expenses, e.g., airfare, lodging, food, living out of a suitcase.

 

[JAM]

Filler put out a statement before the World 8-Ball event -- see post #87 here: https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...zealand-winner-75k.567788/page-5#post-7930129

I'm not sure if Pia posted for Joshua originally, but I have read that Pia handles all of Joshua's social media, which includes Facebook. I had wondered if her posting on Joshua's behalf could have been at play here. I also could be wrong about that.

I support and understand Sky's stance, as that is what suits his career and belief. But I also understand why Joshua changed his mind. Him giving his word and not standing with the others with follow through after his original post, I feel like he is entitled to change his mind, whatever suits his pocketbook.

Sadly, there is no union, organization, or agent supporting the "professional" pool player. Until they, my thought is they are entitled to free will, which includes changing their mind.

 

[JAM]

It’s hard to fault Filler and Oushan, as Predator sponsored players, for playing in a Predator event.

Thanks for sharing that factoid. It has been overlooked by many.

 

[garczar]

Yours is an well-reasoned, excellent post, outlining some of the tricky aspects of the moment for the pros in our sport, but this statement doesn't make sense. It is hardly incumbent on any player to pre-announce what they will and will not play in, and if they change their mind after publicizing a decision, who other than the event producer is affected?

Pro pool has no motto, no credo, no prime directive and each must manage their career as they please.

Then don't open one's piehole when you have no intent of sticking to what you say. I'll hammer Filler for being a two-faced little weasel as long as the sun keeps burning. Never been a fan and now even less so. Rock on Sky.

 

[VVP]

Then don't open one's piehole when you have no intent of sticking to what you say. I'll hammer Filler for being a two-faced little weasel as long as the sun keeps burning. Never been a fan and now even less so. Rock on Sky.

I think you are a reasonable person so I would urge that you try look at the situation without bias. I think Filler's explanation of the the situation was reasonable and in-depth even though a lot of people read it as self-fulfilling. All you need to do is put yourself in his position and see what decisions you would have made. He is clear that he would support Matchroom over WPA.

It is possible that they were told that the Hanoi Open would not happen without WPA sanction (from my recollection and interpretation of what he stated). Given the importance of the Hanoi Open to players I can see why some signed on to the prepared statement. Maybe after receiving further information it was clear to them that the Hanoi Open will happen with or without the WPA. Filler clearly stated that he will play in the Hanoi Open and deal with any penalty after that. Totally reasonable to me.

This WPA boycott was supposed to be "in solidarity" with Asian players. However, it is not clear to me which major events these Asian players would be prevented from playing in. Definitely they can play in Matchroom events and I BELIEVE they can play in Predator events under a white flag if they are WPA sanctioned. So I am not sure what the solidarity is about. Maybe it more about forcing the WPA to sanction the Hanoi Open since WPA sanctions seem to carry weight with governing bodies.

I believe this is more about pool politics and players should not be held ransom.

 

[rexus31]

Are all the players going against their "copy and paste" creedo, Predator sponsored players? Predator sponsored players should never have copied and pasted anything regarding the WPA based solely on knowing the tight ties between Predator and the WPA. How dumb can you be? I've said it before: Sponsor (money) trumps ethics/integrity.

 

[Jaden]

When playing pool politics means forgoing income that would otherwise accrue to oneself or one's family, who are we to tell pro players to do so? Pool pros are not WNT employees, but instead outside contractors making a fairly modest income and it should not be expected of them.

Each player must make his own decisions regarding event participation, and as far as I'm concerned, they can change their mind every day if they like. It is not incumbent on any player to ride the favored political winds. Event participation decisions are often made at the last minute, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

I certainly respect and admire Sky and all the WNT pros who choose to forgo income opportunities to try to make a stand in favor of other pros, but expecting all pool players to act as a single unit in any matter is unrealistic and maybe even unprecedented.

There are two sides to this coin, and I'm tired of the holier-than-thou types that want to brand some players as disloyal. The players are forced to juggle their loyalties between event producers, federations, and sponsors and each is faced with a slightly different challenge. Predator sponsored players like Ouschan and Filler have the toughest decisions to make given that Predator is so tightly tied to WPA.

Let's have a little compassion for the players, who continue to be pawns in the dirty politics of others in our less-than-united sport.

Then don't say anything. We are people, we absolutely can hold people accountable for not living up to their word. If we want change, and/or we want a decent society, we absolutely MUST hold people to their word. A man who doesn't have their word, has NOTHING.

Jaden

I am very proud that I am a man of my word. Many years ago, I played in the Waco tenball open. I had a guy quit me winner the night before the tourney after I destroyed him once he agreed to play longer sets. He bought me in the calcutta the next day. I agreed to take half and ended up finishing one out of the calcutta money. I looked for him, but he wasn't there. I left the state but contacted big truck and sent him the money for my half of the calcutta. You have to live up to your word.

 

[VVP]

Then don't say anything. We are people, we absolutely can hold people accountable for not living up to their word. If we want change, and/or we want a decent society, we absolutely MUST hold people to their word. A man who doesn't have their word, has NOTHING.

Jaden

I am very proud that I am a man of my word. Many years ago, I played in the Waco tenball open. I had a guy quit me winner the night before the tourney after I destroyed him once he agreed to play longer sets. He bought me in the calcutta the next day. I agreed to take half and ended up finishing one out of the calcutta money. I looked for him, but he wasn't there. I left the state but contacted big truck and sent him the money for my half of the calcutta. You have to live up to your word.

If someone lied to you and told you that they were an 800 Fargo and you gave them "your word" that you would bet $10,000 on them against a 600 Fargo. However, just before the bet you found out that he is a 400 Fargo. Would you stick to "your word" an still place the $10,000 bet on him? If you would then you are an idiot. It has nothing to do with integrity.

"Word" can be given based on false information. No wonder I don't like politicians.

 

[Jaden]

If someone lied to you and told you that they were an 800 Fargo and you gave them "your word" that you would bet $10,000 on them against a 600 Fargo. However, just before the bet you found out that he is a 400 Fargo. Would you stick to "your word" an still place the $10,000 bet on him? If you would then you are an idiot. It has nothing to do with integrity.

"Word" can be given based on false information. No wonder I don't like politicians.

And how exactly is that scenario analogous with the WPA situation?? LOL... Unless you're inferring that the players who stated they wouldn't play are analogous to the 400 fargo players, in which case, you're proving the point.

Jaden

 

[trob]

If someone lied to you and told you that they were an 800 Fargo and you gave them "your word" that you would bet $10,000 on them against a 600 Fargo. However, just before the bet you found out that he is a 400 Fargo. Would you stick to "your word" an still place the $10,000 bet on him? If you would then you are an idiot. It has nothing to do with integrity.

"Word" can be given based on false information. No wonder I don't like politicians.

I don’t think one has anything to do with the other. Lol one just caught being a liar and cheat.

I do feel for all the players. It’s tough making a living in this game and when you finally have the chance to the leagues start thinking about themselves and not whats best for the game and the players playing it. Sad situation all around.

 

[Hungarian]

A man who doesn't have their word, has NOTHING.

And a man who places in a tourney has some money. I’m not being disrespectful to you and I generally agree with you mostly.

This situation really stinks since since the players are being kicked around like political footballs.

Only two players broke $100k in income so far this year. Many of the rest are not doing so well.

 

[VVP]

And how exactly is that scenario analogous with the WPA situation?? LOL... Unless you're inferring that the players who stated they wouldn't play are analogous to the 400 fargo players, in which case, you're proving the point.

Jaden

It might take a brain surgeon, but definitely not a rocket scientist to figure out that Filler et al might have been presented incorrect information at the meeting held during the Matchroom event. It is far more difficult for them to have to produce statements afterwards detailing why they are choosing to play in WPA events.
As a man of word you might be expecting Filler to categorically state that he was misinformed when signing the prepared statement. Well, my advice to you is get real.

 

[rexus31]

If someone lied to you and told you that they were an 800 Fargo and you gave them "your word" that you would bet $10,000 on them against a 600 Fargo. However, just before the bet you found out that he is a 400 Fargo. Would you stick to "your word" an still place the $10,000 bet on him? If you would then you are an idiot. It has nothing to do with integrity.

"Word" can be given based on false information. No wonder I don't like politicians.

How is this analogous to the WNT/WPA scenario. AFAIK, none of the players are being defrauded in any way.

 

[rexus31]

It might take a brain surgeon, but definitely not a rocket scientist to figure out that Filler et al might have been presented incorrect information at the meeting held during the Matchroom event. It is far more difficult for them to have to produce statements afterwards detailing why they are choosing to play in WPA events.
As a man of word you might be expecting Filler to categorically state that he was misinformed when signing the prepared statement. Well, my advice to you is get real.

That's a stretch. It's clear as day to see the decision has everything to do with contractual obligations between he and Predator, who most likely reminded him of said obligations once his copy and paste hit social media. Albin said as much in his reply.

 

[FranCrimi]

A lot of people commit to things before they fully understand the subject. People do change their minds sometimes as they gain more understanding about something. Assuming you know why someone changes their mind without knowing for sure is gossip and nothing more.