Sky weighs in on WPA...

[rexus31]

A lot of people commit to things before they fully understand the subject. People do change their minds sometimes as they gain more understanding about something. Assuming you know why someone changes their mind without knowing for sure is gossip and nothing more.

No one is assuming. Filler decided not to call it what it is: contractual obligations.

 

[VVP]

How is this analogous to the WNT/WPA scenario. AFAIK, none of the players are being defrauded in any way.

Spent enough time on this. Here is an excerpt of Filler's statement which I allued to in a post above:

The evening before the last 64 at the European Open in Fulda we had a meeting with the tone that the happening of Hanoi Open is in jeopardy because the WPA wouldn’t treat it as a sanctioned event like US Open or European Open for example and therefore they could implement bans on players.

Seems pretty unfair why this event wouldn’t be treated as sanctioned as this was the biggest crowd there’s ever been at an open 9ball event with over 2k spectators which is a real treat in many ways for every player and it’s for the growth of the game we all love!
Why wouldn’t the WPA sanction it as well to help us all grow?

Possible that had he known that the Hanoi Open would happen with or without the WPA he might not have signed the prepared statement.

 

[rexus31]

Spent enough time on this. Here is an excerpt of Filler's statement which I allued to in a post above:

The evening before the last 64 at the European Open in Fulda we had a meeting with the tone that the happening of Hanoi Open is in jeopardy because the WPA wouldn’t treat it as a sanctioned event like US Open or European Open for example and therefore they could implement bans on players.

Seems pretty unfair why this event wouldn’t be treated as sanctioned as this was the biggest crowd there’s ever been at an open 9ball event with over 2k spectators which is a real treat in many ways for every player and it’s for the growth of the game we all love!
Why wouldn’t the WPA sanction it as well to help us all grow?

Maybe I'm a little slow, but how is this analogous to your gambling sceanario?

Did something change? As of May 7, 2024, Matchroom denies any WPA sanctioning of its events.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I was hard on Filler earlier for playing the 8 ball. I've mellowed out about it. The players really are pawns. Its sad. Has been that way forever.

Pool is definitely on the uptick the past 5 years, across all promoters, there is no doubt about that. But still, even if there were no boycotts and every pro played every big event world-wide, they would nearly all still be broke. Players cutting out half their opportunities now with a WPA boycott is quite severe.

 

[garczar]

I was hard on Filler earlier for playing the 8 ball. I've mellowed out about it. The players really are pawns. Its sad. Has been that way forever.

Pool is definitely on the uptick the past 5 years, across all promoters, there is no doubt about that. But still, even if there were no boycotts and every pro played every big event world-wide, they would nearly all still be broke. Players cutting out half their opportunities now with a WPA boycott is quite severe.

All the little douche has to do is not run his mouth and then have to back-track and eat his own words. Fairly simple concept. Well ,for some i guess. Apparently not ol Filly.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Another weird thing I've seen on FB the past 2 weeks, some Asian or European promoters made posts saying (me paraphrasing):

The WPA has claimed our event is sanctioned. I, the promoter, have never contacted the WPA for sanctioning. This is a complete surprise to me. I had no part in it. I do not want it sanctioned.

I'm sorry I don't remember what event(s) it was. It just seems super slimy if true, that the WPA is going around saying xyz tournament is sanctioned. It's basically the same "fake news" that Karl Boyes called them out for before.

 

[jokrswylde]

Whelp...we all walk our own path in life, and it is not my place to judge another man for doing what he needs to do to provide for his loved ones. I grew up in a union house. I remember a few times we ate bologna sandwhiches for supper because thats what we could afford, being on strike.

The one thing it taught me was that sticking to your guns and what you believe in can hurt...emotionally, financially, professionally, etc.

 

[Jaden]

And a man who places in a tourney has some money. I’m not being disrespectful to you and I generally agree with you mostly.

This situation really stinks since since the players are being kicked around like political footballs.

Only two players broke $100k in income so far this year. Many of the rest are not doing so well.

This is really simple. Don't OPEN your mouth if you're not going to follow through. I understand the reasons. That doesn't excuse standing up and then walking it back. In Filler's case it just looks to me like he saw an easy opportunity to walk away with a world championship while the best players weren't going to be there.

Jaden

 

[garczar]

I think you are a reasonable person so I would urge that you try look at the situation without bias. I think Filler's explanation of the the situation was reasonable and in-depth even though a lot of people read it as self-fulfilling. All you need to do is put yourself in his position and see what decisions you would have made. He is clear that he would support Matchroom over WPA.

It is possible that they were told that the Hanoi Open would not happen without WPA sanction (from my recollection and interpretation of what he stated). Given the importance of the Hanoi Open to players I can see why some signed on to the prepared statement. Maybe after receiving further information it was clear to them that the Hanoi Open will happen with or without the WPA. Filler clearly stated that he will play in the Hanoi Open and deal with any penalty after that. Totally reasonable to me.

This WPA boycott was supposed to be "in solidarity" with Asian players. However, it is not clear to me which major events these Asian players would be prevented from playing in. Definitely they can play in Matchroom events and I BELIEVE they can play in Predator events under a white flag if they are WPA sanctioned. So I am not sure what the solidarity is about. Maybe it more about forcing the WPA to sanction the Hanoi Open since WPA sanctions seem to carry weight with governing bodies.

I believe this is more about pool politics and players should not be held ransom.

Again, i'm sorry this is so hard to get but these players, any of them, need to think for at least a second before they run their mouth. This is my take on JF's little adventure: his ol lady was going there and he tagged along. When he got there and saw how lame the field was he decided to ditch his statement and steal himself a world title that really doesn't mean much due to the field. Nitty move but not surprising to me.

 

[garczar]

This is really simple. Don't OPEN your mouth if you're not going to follow through. I understand the reasons. That doesn't excuse standing up and then walking it back. In Filler's case it just looks to me like he saw an easy opportunity to walk away with a world championship while the best players weren't going to be there.

Jaden

Agree 100%.

 

[rexus31]

This is really simple. Don't OPEN your mouth if you're not going to follow through. I understand the reasons. That doesn't excuse standing up and then walking it back. In Filler's case it just looks to me like he saw an easy opportunity to walk away with a world championship while the best players weren't going to be there.

Jaden

I still say it was contractual. He may not have wanted to throw his sponsor under the bus like Albin did.

 

[Jaden]

It might take a brain surgeon, but definitely not a rocket scientist to figure out that Filler et al might have been presented incorrect information at the meeting held during the Matchroom event. It is far more difficult for them to have to produce statements afterwards detailing why they are choosing to play in WPA events.
As a man of word you might be expecting Filler to categorically state that he was misinformed when signing the prepared statement. Well, my advice to you is get real.

Being at that level of public scrutiny means that you have to be that much more careful about what you put out there. Filler is arguably the best player in the world right now and definitely in the top 5. He has already had a public perception problem. I was starting to come around and starting to feel comfortable rooting him on before this. Now, ehhh.

Jaden

 

[sjm]

You've changed my mind on this point, but the gripe with with Filler is:

1) he said one thing to his fans; did the opposite
2) his fans said "what's happened"
3) filler said f-u fans, mind your business, "I want a trophy."

Compare this with Albin, who at #3 said "sorry, I had to do this for my sponsors."

Don't forget at the end of the day the players don't get paid anything (or at least Matchroom money) if people don't watch. But maybe a heel is good for viewership. Mosconi cup will have some extra heat this year.

Yes, how the players "spin" their actions matters to some, but many of us understand that having to spin things at all

Then don't say anything. We are people, we absolutely can hold people accountable for not living up to their word. If we want change, and/or we want a decent society, we absolutely MUST hold people to their word. A man who doesn't have their word, has NOTHING.

Jaden

I am very proud that I am a man of my word. Many years ago, I played in the Waco tenball open. I had a guy quit me winner the night before the tourney after I destroyed him once he agreed to play longer sets. He bought me in the calcutta the next day. I agreed to take half and ended up finishing one out of the calcutta money. I looked for him, but he wasn't there. I left the state but contacted big truck and sent him the money for my half of the calcutta. You have to live up to your word.

Jaden, you are one of the very best posters on our forum, and I'm not disagreeing with your suggestion that the political aftermath of these flip-flops in decision making could have been and should have been handled differently.

You, quite clearly, have high principles and I admire that, but as esteemed AZB poster Lou Figueroa (who has professional experience in media training) has so often pointed out, pool players lack the media training they need to effectively deal with their public and something needs to be done about it if pool's best interests are to be served. I hope and believe that pool's recent growth will soon make this possible.

As you suggest, the ugly politics of pool have placed pro players in a compromising situation, and some have handled it better than others.

 

[Hungarian]

This is really simple. Don't OPEN your mouth if you're not going to follow through. I understand the reasons. That doesn't excuse standing up and then walking it back. In Filler's case it just looks to me like he saw an easy opportunity to walk away with a world championship while the best players weren't going to be there.

Jaden

I wasn't thinking about Filler getting a cheap win. I get that now. It still sucks being a political football.

 

[ChrisinNC]

All the little douche has to do is not run his mouth and then have to back-track and eat his own words. Fairly simple concept. Well ,for some i guess. Apparently not ol Filly.

It’s likely too much to expect of anyone in virtually any profession whose life is unbalanced to the extreme of having reached the very very top to act like most normal well adjusted humans.

Of course there are many exceptions to my assumption, but just an observation I have made over the years.

 

[garczar]

It’s likely too much to expect of anyone in virtually any profession whose life is unbalanced to the extreme of having reached the very very top to act like most normal well adjusted humans.

Of course there are many exceptions to my assumption, but just an observation I have made over the years.

Is it really too much to ask to do what you say? Next time he might really give it some thought before he says something. That's all i'm saying. Dude has MAD skills but i'm just not a fan.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Is it really too much to ask to do what you say? Next time he might really give it some thought before he says something. That's all i'm saying. Dude has MAD skills but i'm just not a fan.

I agree, but obviously he didn’t think through the repercussions before he issued his original plan.

 

[FranCrimi]

Another weird thing I've seen on FB the past 2 weeks, some Asian or European promoters made posts saying (me paraphrasing):

The WPA has claimed our event is sanctioned. I, the promoter, have never contacted the WPA for sanctioning. This is a complete surprise to me. I had no part in it. I do not want it sanctioned.

I'm sorry I don't remember what event(s) it was. It just seems super slimy if true, that the WPA is going around saying xyz tournament is sanctioned. It's basically the same "fake news" that Karl Boyes called them out for before.

Maybe the WPA issued a waiver allowing players to play, but some players misinterpreted it as the event being sanctioned. An association can allow players to play in an event, even though an event isn't sanctioned.

 

[Poolmanis]

Just a thought. MR could leave out guys from invitational events who says other and do other than they say...
I think that would be fair to them also.

 

[lfigueroa]

Yes, how the players "spin" their actions matters to some, but many of us understand that having to spin things at all

Jaden, you are one of the very best posters on our forum, and I'm not disagreeing with your suggestion that the political aftermath of these flip-flops in decision making could have been and should have been handled differently.

You, quite clearly, have high principles and I admire that, but as esteemed AZB poster Lou Figueroa (who has professional experience in media training) has so often pointed out, pool players lack the media training they need to effectively deal with their public and something needs to be done about it if pool's best interests are to be served. I hope and believe that pool's recent growth will soon make this possible.

As you suggest, the ugly politics of pool have placed pro players in a compromising situation, and some have handled it better than others.

Well, ya, but you don't need media training to stick by your word.

Lou Figueroa