Sleeping in your car, a warning

[alstl]

I don't think you would have a problem if you went to a police department and parked in their lot. Just let them know you are drowsy and need to get some sleep. They should leave you alone and so will the thugs.

 

[Fatboy]

Michael Jordans dad got shot sleeping in his car years ago.

I fell asleep driving once and rolled a jeep a few times we were both thrown out of it, could have been killed just as easy- I awalys pull over and sleep since then, usually with a gun, but thankfully no problems,

i'm glad your ok, buy a bigger gun and have it in your lap, its awalys better to get caught with a gun than without one when it counts.

 

[cuetrip]

It appears that most of us have the same theory that carrying a weapon can be acceptable if it's used as an absolute last resort. The problem (at least for me it was) is that the predetermined fine line that defines that absolute last resort can change in heated situations.
I carried a .380 years ago but found I was unable to maintain that fine line. I got myself into a situation that I could have removed myself from but was too overrun with adrenalin to think clearly. I wound up with my finger on the trigger. I got rid of the gun the next day.
If I were in that Bronco instead of Jay I would have shot that kid. I know myself well enough to realize that and it's exactly that reason that I don't carry a gun anymore.
I know there are plenty of folks who are more than capable of carrying a gun and maintaining that fine line of last resort. Jay obviously is one of them.
Kudos Jay for keeping yourself safe AND out of legal trouble! You're a cooler cat than I.
-Rob

 

[Island Drive]

I will never drive when I get sleepy. I wrecked a Corvette by falling asleep when I was still a teenager. So when I get sleepy, I pull over and find a place to rest.

Last week I went down to Temecula to play in a poker tournament. It was a thousand dollar buy-in with a $250,000 guarantee. They ended up with 390 players and a $390,000 purse, 130K for first. Sweet!

I played until about Midnite and busted out about 85th. No money though. I got in my car and headed home, 90 miles away. After driving a short distance I realized I was too sleepy to drive. I pulled off the freeway in Lake Elsinore and looked for a quiet spot to rest. I drove into town and parked on the main drag next to other cars. It was about 12:30 AM. I put my seat back and fell sound asleep.

About 1:15 AM there is a loud knock on my window. I'm startled awake and see a young hispanic kid at the window. He asks me if I have a cigarette, and I tell him I don't smoke. He then asks me for $5, and I realize I have a problem. I look out the other window and see two more young kids. They must have been about 18 or 19. They immediately start trying to get in my locked doors.

My first reaction is to reach for my .22 derringer in the ashtray. It holds five shots, revolver style. The first kids head is about two feet from mine, as he plays with the door, trying to get it open. I can't miss from that close, but think better of it, and try to start the car. He is now simulating a weapon under his shirt. Why I didn't shoot him I don't know. I was afraid, and there were three of them. If they had gotten in the car (actually a Ford Bronco II), I would have been in a very bad spot.

Anyway, I got the truck started, and backed up fast. Two of the kids disappeared, but the first one hung onto my door. My little truck is cold blooded and it died. He is banging on the window hard now, trying to break it. Somehow I get the truck started again and slowly pull away with him running alongside, yelling at me and simulating something under his shirt. I got away. No harm, no foul. Just a good scare.

When I got a few blocks down the street I became very mad, and thought of going back for a moment. I ended up back on the freeway and drove on home. I told Tang and Kim about my experince but not my family. They would be too worried.

Now I know that pulling off the freeway to sleep may not be such a good idea late at night. Maybe parking in an all night gas station would be better, but there is so much light it is hard to sleep. And maybe next time, I will take my .38, so I can handle three guys. And there will probably never be a next time like that. I'm getting too old for this kind of stuff. Maybe it's time for me to retire from gambling.

Sorry gang. I just realized that this should be in non pool related section. Maybe Mike can move it over.

I would of done a Red Bull to get 'me' home.

 

[Russ Chewning]

It appears that most of us have the same theory that carrying a weapon can be acceptable if it's used as an absolute last resort. The problem (at least for me it was) is that the predetermined fine line that defines that absolute last resort can change in heated situations.
I carried a .380 years ago but found I was unable to maintain that fine line. I got myself into a situation that I could have removed myself from but was too overrun with adrenalin to think clearly. I wound up with my finger on the trigger. I got rid of the gun the next day.
If I were in that Bronco instead of Jay I would have shot that kid. I know myself well enough to realize that and it's exactly that reason that I don't carry a gun anymore.
I know there are plenty of folks who are more than capable of carrying a gun and maintaining that fine line of last resort. Jay obviously is one of them.
Kudos Jay for keeping yourself safe AND out of legal trouble! You're a cooler cat than I.
-Rob

I think I am pretty cool under pressure. Even so, I still would have pulled out the gun and showed it to the punks.

Then, I'd sit there and pray they tried to pull something.

Russ

 

[Fatboy]

i had an incedent in Sacramento in 95 I just remembered, there were 4 or 5 guys that looked clean cut that started some shit with 3 of us 2 guys and a girl they were drunk, the more words i used the worse things were getting, so I asked them to wait a minute and busted out the glock(it was empty) and asked them politely what brand of gun I was showing them, I didnt point it at them, All of a sudden I was "Sir". problem solved.

another time i was in bed sound asleep when I heard a noise it was some one climbing into the laundry room window at 430am, i was dreaming it was my girl doing laundry-I didnt have a gun in that room, it was the down stairs bedroom and i was recovering from a hernia operation, when the cat bugler heard me he took off-man i wish i had a gun then, since then i sleep with a 45 right next to me-loaded. i'm a cool headed guy and not trigger happy. i was going up stairs to get a gun when he heard me.

 

[hemicudas]

Really glad you and/or they dodged the bullit, Jay. Do as you said, don't put yourself in the spot again, we like ya here.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Glad you didn't have to pull the trigger, Jay. Guaranteed trouble, as people have said. If any of the creeps lived, and with a .22 you'd have to bet on it, not only do you get sued, but you may well get smeared. Personal injury lawyers do tell the odd white lie, right? You would've been to blame somehow ... so they probably heard you make a racial slur, or a homosexual come-on, etc.

I too used to catch zzzs on the road, especially when I had to make a monthly all-night trip from Knoxville, TN to Columbia, MO. There was a rest stop on the Kentucky border where I'd crash for a few hours in the back of my pickup (with a cap), snoring in my sleeping bag with a .44 special next to me. Fortunately, nobody ever hassled me, or I'd probably still be paying.

 

[jay helfert]

Everyone loves to have a gun it seems... you even mention that you need to carry a bigger one next time. All that I ask is that the readers of this thread (even the original poster) to re-read the original post and take note that a gun was never needed. Common sense easily took care of the situation with no bloodshed. If a gun was used, or even brandished, this situation would have turned out much, much worse.

This is proof of the often ignored fact that most all situations are resolved better without a gun. The use of, or showing of, a gun causes situations to explode. Cooler, more logical thinking is ignored because of fear. I know people can quote rare situations where a gun saved a life (of one person in the situation). All I ask you to consider is the numerous (majority of) situations where a gun causes everything to go bad.

Next time, leave the gun at home. There will be no temptation to use it and cause yourself and others unnecessary grief and suffering.


Please be gentle with your "my second amendment right," "better safe than sorry," and "out-of-control crime in this country warrants it" replies.

Thanks for your reply. I have no doubt that my life was in danger. Money alone may not have satisfied these kids. I don't know if you have crack addicts or meth heads over there, but we do here. They had bloodlust in their eyes. I'm not the kind to get scared, but I was then. And I'll admit it.

I'm glad I got away clean, but I do wish I had a larger gun right then. I could have saved my life if they had broken into my car. No amount of money or conversation or fighting would have saved me then. I'm convinced I was in big trouble.

I DON'T love guns, but in this country you better know how to use one. I have no desire to be a victim. And I would never use a gun (having owned them for 40 years) unless it was to save my life or the life of a loved one.

 

[jay helfert]

I agree with your philosophy 100% but I'm still thinking of arming myself for the first time in my 64 years. I'm thinking a 380 w/hollow points.

Jay: I'm sure we're all very glad you made it through that situation without getting hurt or hurting someone. It seems that you are the sort of person that the world needs.

I wonder if a bit of exercise would have been a better answer to the problem of being tired. Maybe find a Walmart or other all night store and take a 10 minute walk. Often in my case it's not so much being "tired" as it is being sleepy and a walk or some water on the back of the neck would do the trick. The water on the back of the neck seems to be an especially good way to become more alert. I have no idea why that works so well but for me it does wonders.

Good advice. Next time I stop for a cup of coffee, and walk around a little. It has worked for me before. THANK YOU.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay,

Wow, that made my heart beat fast just reading about it. Good work getting out of that mess.

Do you think they followed you from Temecula? Cash rich poker players would be a pretty good target for robbers. Maybe you should warn other poker players in that area.

The other issue is, you should report it to the police in Elsinore. It may be part of a string of these type of robberies and you might be able to help them ID the men.

Chris

I don't think they followed me. Remember, I was asleep in the car for maybe 45 minutes. I thought about calling the Elsinore police the next day, but have not as yet. I didn't report it that night, because the idea of telling them about my gun made me think twice.

It is a crime in California to carry a loaded gun in your car. What many people don't know, is this is a misdemenaor, not a felony.

 

[jay helfert]

Here is one that might be useful sometime. It really happened to me. I was in a 3-piece suit, carrying an attaché case and walking through an alley to my car when a guy about 50 pounds heavier and a couple of inches taller braced me from behind. He said some thing to the effect that he needed $5.00 for gas to get home. It was obvious to me he was looking for more than that. I turned around, faced him and walked straight at him saying, “let’s go look at your car, perhaps I can help.” I think I startled him because he backed up and said something about I did not need to see his car. I just kept walking right past him and was in the street in less than five seconds. When I turned again he was gone and I walked into the building.

As noted above, using a weapon can cause you more trouble than its worth. In most situations you only need five seconds, a cool head, and some nerve. I was a recon marine and could have taken the guy down but why let his problem become my problem. Driving away was the best solution. To paraphrase an earlier post, -- what comes around goes around -- these guys usually get what they deserve, let them get straight with each other.

I have worked in many prisons as a forensic psych and I can tell you first hand, the last thing you want to do is spend time in any state prison. When I meet these guys in prisons and they tell me how insensitive and cold I am for a shrink, I tell them, “Welcome to my world. If you tick me off I will have five guys haul you to solitary while I watch.”

Because of my work there are many people who do not like me – that is putting it mildly, and I have no need to carry a weapon – a little pepper spray maybe, but no weapon. I value my freedom too much.

I have handled similar situations in nearly the same manner, confronting a potential bad guy. This situation was different, far different. I was trapped in my car. It was definitely flight or fight.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay...you did the right thing by leaving before it got ugly. Maybe running the lil bastid over first would have crossed my mind before leaving. If he had a weapon, you would have seen it immediately. The old "hide my hand under my shirt" is an old play for the youth on the streets. Brandashing your wheelgun might have had him going in a totally different direction. The choice of weapon is up to you but I know the two noises in LIFE that make me instantly sweat...one is the sound of a 12 gauge pump and the other is my wifes giggle running out of the shower

That is the funniest thing ever. I can see her now. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[jay helfert]

Glad to hear a happy ending to this incident, Jay. You make a good decision and used your best weapon, your 2k pound vehicle. If they had broken a window, just pointing your .22 at them would have probably ended it. No need for all the hassle of interviews and paper work if it can be avoided following a shoot-out. Maybe more, since I don't know your state laws. But if they had a weapon I'm guessing you would have seen it come out.

In some states the victim cannot be sued by the thug's family following a good shoot. As to pepper spray, it will not work in every case, especially on a druged up thug. A plan B is needed, meaning the largest caliber available at the time. And, of course, if the thug has a weapon, forget the spray, then it's shoot 'em to the ground plan B.

My .22 derringer is tiny. It can literally fit in the palm of your hand. It is not a menacing weapon. In fact, it looks like a toy. It shoots .22 shorts only, probably only effective up to five feet or so. A real close quarters weapon.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay, Lake Elsinore is a haven for tweakers.
Next time carry a mag 44 or .357.
No lead on the shells. The muzzle fire and loud bang ought to scare them.lol
But, glad u came out ok.

I have a Colt .38 loaded with hollow points. It has rarely been out of my safe.

 

[jay helfert]

I don't think you would have a problem if you went to a police department and parked in their lot. Just let them know you are drowsy and need to get some sleep. They should leave you alone and so will the thugs.

Another good idea. Thanks. Only problem can be finding the police dept.

 

[jay helfert]

It appears that most of us have the same theory that carrying a weapon can be acceptable if it's used as an absolute last resort. The problem (at least for me it was) is that the predetermined fine line that defines that absolute last resort can change in heated situations.
I carried a .380 years ago but found I was unable to maintain that fine line. I got myself into a situation that I could have removed myself from but was too overrun with adrenalin to think clearly. I wound up with my finger on the trigger. I got rid of the gun the next day.
If I were in that Bronco instead of Jay I would have shot that kid. I know myself well enough to realize that and it's exactly that reason that I don't carry a gun anymore.
I know there are plenty of folks who are more than capable of carrying a gun and maintaining that fine line of last resort. Jay obviously is one of them.
Kudos Jay for keeping yourself safe AND out of legal trouble! You're a cooler cat than I.
-Rob

I'm not so sure. I remember thinking that this little gun might make things worse instead of better. It might just piss them off if I wound someone. Then it really will be a fight to the death. All these thoughts went thru my head in milliseconds. I realized the best thing was to escape.

 

[JoeW]

I have handled similar situations in nearly the same manner, confronting a potential bad guy. This situation was different, far different. I was trapped in my car. It was definitely flight or fight.

In that situation, I doubt that you would get in much legal trouble for using a weapon especially if they broke a window trying to get at you except for the misdemeanor thing. The courts can get rough with a misdemeanor but it depends on the guy. In Ohio any offense with a weapon receives an additional two year mandatory sentence.

Playing in pool tournaments and or high stakes poker games should be sufficient reason for having a pistol permit in most places. You only need show that you have reason to think that others might attack. Having lots of cash is sufficient reason in most places.
None-the-less, the only reason to carry is because you would use it. The advice that someone gave re don't take it out unless you are going to fire until its empty is good advice.

We have a pump shotgun in the house for my wife to rachet behind the bedroom door if someone comes in when I am not at home. I discussed this scenario with several cons and learned that almost all of them would leave when they heard the racheting -- even the drug addicts said they would go elsewhere. So that too is worth considering. The cocking of a weapon tends to put the fear of God into most people -- even the bad guys.

AT other times --- well who knows.

 

[jay helfert]

I think I am pretty cool under pressure. Even so, I still would have pulled out the gun and showed it to the punks.

Then, I'd sit there and pray they tried to pull something.

Russ

Russ, I don't think that little .22 would have intimidated them. And it didn't make me feel that secure with three of them. It might have been just as effective to shout out I HAVE A GUN!

I was worried that one of them DID have a gun, or a knife (which they probably did).

 

[jay helfert]

You'll like this. I just called the Lake Elsinore P.D. It's now 1PM on Saturday.
They are CLOSED! I would have had a lot of trouble finding a cop at 1:15 AM last Sunday morning I believe.

Whoever said you're pretty much on your own when something happens is right. I found that out years ago when I had my first poolroom in Bakersfield. When we had a bad fight, I tried calling the cops. They meandered in about 45 minutes later, after we had cleaned up the mess.

After that I took to handling things on my own. I knew I couldn't count on them in an emergency.