Slow Players What are you thinking about?

[chilli66]

I sometimes wonder what the slow player sees when they're playing someone like myself, who plays fast.

Do I blur around the edges? Or is it like the bullet-time stuff from The Matrix?

Please be aware this is only when I'm playing well. The other times I'm just running around the table looking like an idiot!

 

[tom mcgonagle]

Tom , Great post, Obviously a lot of interest.

To me situations dictate a lot the decisions we make in life. Also the things we want to happen fast seem to takle forever, in our minds. Such as, waiting for Christmas to come when we're young and growing up, so we can do all those things we think we're missing.

This is what's going on as a person sits waiting for another for there chance to come back to the table and shoot again. we want to get back there so badly we think it's taking forever for the person at the table to play.

I know what it's like to play slooooow players. I used to play one guy that would stroke each shot between thirty and forty times. He was ridiculous. I got the reputation of playing slow because I always seem to play a lot of close matches and I play safe if I don't care for the shot I'm facing.

I also don't always feel the same way when I'm playing a match. Sometimes the pockets look smaller than they are and I'm walking around on egg shells because i haven't found a comfort zone yet.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, "Things are not always the way we wish they were."

I can tell you this, "In the final match of The New England Championships in 1988, I beat my opponent 9-1 in thirty-seven minutes. A spectator told me he wanted to leave by ten thirty that night. We started playing around 9:45. He left on time.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I think I would be considered a slow player. I can play with a rapid pace or pretty slow. When I really purposefully slow down is when I see it gives me an advantage by irrritating my opponent, but c'mon should it be that easy to mentally destroy your opponent?

My normal 20 - 30 sec per shot pace is all I need for seeing, planning and shooting. So, the real answer to slow play is showing some mental toughness on the non-slow player's part.

Still, in a miss and sit situation, there is real value in taking the right shot, at thee right speed and with the right leave plan.

Not sure I added anything of value to this 7 page rant!

 

[Pii]

I think I would be considered a slow player. I can play with a rapid pace or pretty slow. When I really purposefully slow down is when I see it gives me an advantage by irrritating my opponent, but c'mon should it be that easy to mentally destroy your opponent?

My normal 20 - 30 sec per shot pace is all I need for seeing, planning and shooting. So, the real answer to slow play is showing some mental toughness on the non-slow player's part.

Still, in a miss and sit situation, there is real value in taking the right shot, at thee right speed and with the right leave plan.

Not sure I added anything of value to this 7 page rant!

don't worry it's only 4 pages

 

[KMRUNOUT]

As a player I consider anything longer than 60 seconds a shot too long.

What I really want to know is what SLOW players (that take more than 60 seconds a shot CONSISTANTLY) are thinking about.

Do you take more than 60 seconds a shot? if yes, what are you thinking about?

As a TD I have to also ensure the tournament isn't slowed down because of someone deliberately playing slow. This is why there is a shot clock. IT is very unfair to all the other players that are playing at a SPEED that is much quicker than 60 seconds a shot.

Would you mind explaining what is going through your head when you take so long to shoot?

And BTW, I've never seen a slow player win a tournament. NEVER

Hmm..60 seconds per shot does seem like a really long time. I think that might happen for me from time to time, maybe once per set or something...I guess if it is a lockup safe and I am trying to figure out a route to the object ball, still its hard to pictue it taking 60 seconds.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Funny thing about slow players is that most that I know don't realize or don't admit that they are slow players.

I have a friend that every time we mention slow play, she tries to throw attention to another player that may (or may not) play slower than her. In her mind, she is not a slow player because in her mind, she is not as slow as the other player. It doesn't seem to matter that every tournament we go to results in at least one of her matches on a shot clock.

I have another friend that I don't think she realizes how slow she plays. It is agonizing to watch her size up the shot, look at the angle 4 times, get down into position, make sure her position is set, practice stroke 20 plus times, then shoot. It's brutal sometimes, especially because 50% of the time, the shot is missed.

I think pooltchr was right...
I think good, slow players are evaluating all their options, planning every detail of their shot, planning their shape, and making sure everything is right in their mind before they shoot.

I think some slow players don't have a clue what to do, and they are staring at the balls waiting for the pool angels to draw them a picture on the table.

Funny you should point this out. This often works the reverse as well. There are people that I've played that complain about slow players, but then play slow themselves. In the weekly tournement where I play, there are several people that make a point out of mentioning people playing slow. Of those people who complain, some of them play very fast, but most of them don't. The ones that play very fast almost always deliver inexplicable misses here and there in their matches. I just think it is hilarious when someone complains about slow play, but then they need to be tracked down when their match starts because they're outside smoking, or they need to take a phone call or text message, or they just play pretty slowly!
The thing is, like I mentioned before, a large number of fast players *who have a problem with slow players* simply lack patience. As such, they have not developed an accurate sense of time. When they are waiting, time moves VERY slowly for them. When they are doing what they want, time doesn't seem to matter. That is why the old stopwatch is the best (and worst) friend of the "slow player". It eliminates how you *feel* about waiting. Instead it takes the patience thing out of the picture. We once had an APA team complain that our team was slow, and that matches with us always went long. This fantasy was dispelled when we took out the stopwatch and timed the in-between-shots time of a couple of matches and found out that they took nearly double the time we did. There is a lot of perception stuff going on here. I personally would love a shot clock, so that reality would define "slow play" rather than impatience.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

What makes a player stand up over a shot, take a minute or two to think about it and then get down and go through 20 or so warm up strokes and then get up again?

And repeat this over and over?

I would be embarrassed as a player to show my opponent that I can't make up my mind (if that is the reason for the delay)

This is my question. If it is a delay in the decision, why did you get down in the first place? and then what happened that made you get up?

Please, the slow players that know this answer, send me a PM so I can understand. PLEASE.

With all I've posted on this so far, I must say this this is a mystery to me too. Obviously sometimes in pool you are going to be faced with some options that are all equally bad. Sometimes the fact of the matter is that you don't have a good play. Still, how long does it take to realize that? A lot of times we are faced with the decision to play the heroic shot or try to play a tough safe. Past experience can poke or prod your mind to want to do one or the other, but sometimes your gut feeling at the moment tells you to do the opposite. I guess people could be wrestling with this? I know I have sometimes, especially near the end of an important set.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I think that if go back in time and remembered all the players who played incredibly slow, you will find that they are slow and stupid. And the sooner you reconcile this the better off you will be. I mean, what else could the answer be?

One who uses the phrase "I mean, what else could the answer be?" should be careful when referring to others as stupid.

imho.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I rushed through my post yesterday and compared my time at the table to eating my favorite meal. I guess that wasn't the best answer to the question proposed.

Tom, you should have taken the time needed to formulate the right response No second chances in a tournament! Ha ha, just kidding, but it really highlights the point that people that play GOOD but slow generally are taking the extra time to make sure they make the most out of each opportunity.

Good post!

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I take it you are saying you play a deliberate game. Or are you saying you take at least 60 seconds per shot, no less?

I suspect you just play the deliberate game and you pull the trigger quicker than 60 seconds.

I've played Tom many times. He doesn not take 60 seconds per shot. But he also doesn't take 5 seconds. He shoots slower than average, but not ridiculously slow (at least according to the matches I've had). Oh yeah, and then there is that problem where he MAKES all his shots and never sells out. If I could only change that about him, I'm sure I would win more. ;-)

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I'm gonna go with Danny Basavitch. Painful to watch.

yes indeed. I think he takes WAY longer than 20 seconds per shot if the rules permit. I've seen him play on a 30 second shot clock and he seems to do just fine. Strange.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Welp, I guess that is what you get being too quick and brief in the original post and not writing the proper amount of detail into the original post required to explain your true intent in a clear and meaningful fashion. You ended up wasting a small amount of your time in a failed post instead of taking a greater amount of time to make sure of successfully explaining your thoughts and thus not have wasted any time at all.

Kind of ironic, it's akin to the way alot of people shoot pool.

brilliant! good post.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Bobby]

I usually play very fast - about 15 seconds a shot I guess and yes, slow play annoys me but it depends on why the player is slow. A player like say Nick Varner or Buddy Hall who have naturally slow movements and stop and stare at the table then slowly get down and slowly stroke the cue aren't so bad in my opinion, I don't know why exactly. But players like Charlie Williams who take about the same amount of time per shot (50-60 seconds+) but the difference is he naturally moves fast, gets down gets up, gets down gets up very quickly, re-chalks his cue several times and just can't pull the trigger...those are the players that drive me nuts!

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

...Oh yeah, and then there is that problem where he MAKES all his shots and never sells out...

KMRUNOUT

I guess that would make any player seem slow no matter how fast they were playing, when slowness is perceived as the amount of time you spend in your chair between chances. :grin-square: On that basis I might even consider Drago slow if he's rolling a mondo package at me and I'm frozen in my seat for 30 minutes.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Who made you king of the world?

The problem with slow play is that in the end, the rest of the field pays for it. I'm not talking about matches that are 20% longer than the average or even 50% longer. I'm talking about matches that exceed twice the average. It can slow a tournament to a grinding halt and can put tons of pressure on other players and the room to try and make up for the lost time. There is no rule that I've seen currently employed that appropriately addresses slow play. Pool can be a funny game and occasionally even two fast players will find themselves in the midst of a grind however, there are other players that routinely exceed two hours in matches that should only take one.

No, I'm not King. I'm just a man with an opinion and I'd like to think my opinion is consistent with what's best for pool as a sport and as a business.

 

[ScottR]

{* Let's see now, all I have to do is play the 2ball in the corner and follow the ba,, HEY, she's a really hot pool chick. I love her cleavage and,,,ahem. So anyway, I follow the ball down to the rail way over there. But, how can,,uh oh, whoee, here she comes back this way again. I hope she notices me. Anyway, so how do I hit the white colored ball so that it bounces over to,,,to,,,what comes after the 2ball? Oh yeah, the 3 ball. Where's the 3ball. So then,,,MAN I'M THIRSTY! I need a drink and this damned shot is too confusing. Maybe that hot pool chick would like a drink too. Lemme get the waitress.} "OH WAITRESS, I'D LIKE A SCOTCH ON THE ROCKS AND GET A DRINK FOR THAT YOUNG LADY AS WELL...TELL HER IT'S ON MOI." {yeah that should do the trick. So now, where's the 3ball again. Perfect. I, 2, 3. Just like I saw Jeanette play it on tv. Okay, let me get down on the shot, get comfortable, take a few swings, line up the cue and point it at the white ball and the yellow ball,er,,,or is it yellow ball first, and THEN the white ball. CR@P! Man, the air conditioning sucks here. I'm all sweaty. Where's that drink?} "OH MISS, IS MY DRINK READY YET?" {Hey where's that hot pool chick?....... ....... ....... .......Rats, there she is, I think with her boy friend! Lucky F**k! Man, he's nuthin' special. What's she see in him? Okay, now lemme get back to business. Get down on my shot like this, aaaiiiiiiim, and,oh wait, I forgot to chalk the tip. Now I gotta start all over again. Should I chalk in a circular motion or tap at it or make sqeaky noises? Okay now I gotta blow the excess chalk off. HEY WAIT...what happened to my dime shaped tip? It looks kike a nickel shape now. How embarrassing. All the cool players have a dimey shape. I should get one of those dimey shaper tools. OOO man, here comes another hot pool chick. Man, this is an awesome pool room. Okay, back to the shot.} "HUH? OH THANKS WAITRESS. MAN I'M THIRSTY. YOU CAME JUST IN TIME."{Ya know, she's kinda cute too} "'SCUSE ME? WHAT? OH I'M SORRY, I WON'T LEAVE THE DRINK ON THE FELT EVER AGAIN. THANKS FOR REMINDING ME" {B**ch!, Who does she think she is. I know how to play pool. Now,,,oh cr@p, I gotta go to the restroom}.......... ....... ...... .......... ......... ......... ......... .......... .............. ......... ............ ..........."SORRY MAN. WHEN YOU GOTTA GO, YOU GOTTA GO."{Now I see the shot real good. I wonder if my problem is I have to use the restroom more??? So let me get down on this shot again, just like Jeanette...ooops te-he-he , I mean like Earl Strickland. He's so cool and macho, except that he's got a gut now, but he shoots awesome. So okay again, I'm all lined up} "I CALL THE YELLOW 1 BALL IN THAT CORNER POCKET OVER THERE. UH WHAT? I DON'T HAVE TO CALL THE SHOT IN 9 BALL? I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. SORRRRRY. {My opponent looks peeved. I wonder why. Anyway, so there's the 1 and then the 2 and the 3, and,,,,CR@P THAT'S NOT THE 3, IT'S THE 7}

Humbly nominated for funniest post of the month!!!

Scott

 

[cardiac kid]

Tom,

A couple of weeks ago at the ACS event, I was playing a guy from Canada who played real, real slow. Looked at every shot from every angle. One of my friends asked me why I didn't call a ref and put him on the clock. He was obnoxious but it was helping me be patient. He played well and the match went hill - hill. He had an opportunity to run out and stuck himself. He looked and looked. My friend again wanted me to call the ref. Finally, he chose a short rail kick shot. I needed him to kick the other direction. Finally called the ref. He was so flustered, he missed the kick by two ball widths. Won the match. Sometimes you just have to allow things you don't like!

Lyn