small knot in nice shaft

kiinstructor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a super nice shaft that I want to use for the cue. Problem is there is a very very small knot about 6 inches below the joint. I mean its the size of pin and Id hoped it would cut out but shaft is to final size and there it is. Is there anything you can do to cover this thing up or fill it so it looks natural. I dont what to make to much of it but it kinda bugs me. I hate to throw away such a nice shaft. Thanks for any advise.

Mark
 
I always tell people "if you have to ask, throw it away." That tiny knot will bother some and not others. At the end of the day, you made it. It bothered you enough to post so my advice is to toss it. That's the cost of making cues.
 
I always tell people "if you have to ask, throw it away." That tiny knot will bother some and not others. At the end of the day, you made it. It bothered you enough to post so my advice is to toss it. That's the cost of making cues.

Solid advice Ryan, and I agree. However, I would add that wood is an organic material made by nature, not in a laboratory. It's not intended to look perfect. If the workmanship is not perfect, run it through the band saw. But if it just has a knot here, or a little sugar there, that's just character in my eyes. What really matters is how it plays, and what your customer's expectations are. It may not be acceptable on a high end cue, but might be fine on a sneaky.
 
Come up with a cool name for it, tout it as the newest technology in pool and charge double for it.

I have a super nice shaft that I want to use for the cue. Problem is there is a very very small knot about 6 inches below the joint. I mean its the size of pin and Id hoped it would cut out but shaft is to final size and there it is. Is there anything you can do to cover this thing up or fill it so it looks natural. I dont what to make to much of it but it kinda bugs me. I hate to throw away such a nice shaft. Thanks for any advise.

Mark
 
I agree some people like a little grain in their shafts. I'm fine with a little character in the shafts I shoot with as long as it's not sitting there within 6- 8 inches of the ferrule where it'll stand out more. Unless that knot denotes the sweet spot for holding that cue ;)

I'm surprised no one has marketed maple shafts with a little grain on them as shafts with character like was already said or some other positive way of spinning it other than the way it comes off now as sub-par. They could be called sugar and spice shafts, rough and raw, or figured shafts.

There have to be an awful lot of very playable shafts that get thrown away for simple stuff like that. I have a few shafts with sugar and grain showing that play very well. If it doesn't make the shaft warp faster or play worse or get directly in your line of sight like I said above then what can having a little grain or a tiny knot hurt.
 
Fill it with CA gel & wait a day, then cut the cured glue smooth. You'll see the knot but it'll be filled & solid. I'm also in the "it's natural" camp. If it's a good shaft & the defect is at the joint end, it's not a problem. But that's just me. I fill a niche in the market, not the entire market as a whole. My buyers expect ugly wood with minor visual defects such as pin knots & sugar & small amounts of mineral. Not only do they expect it, they like it & often ask for it. Your buyers may not be those people, and may complain about anything other than white & clean. Only you know which people buy your cues and what they expect. If you aren't sure, then ask the buyer.
 
no good

this shaft is no good, just send it to me and i'll make sure you never have to see it again. [ insert smile here ]
i see nothing wrong with using a shaft that has a natural mark in it. i believe that if it doesn't harm the internal structure of the shaft, no problems. it might be a bit harder to sell, but on the other hand it might make it a bit unusual and easier to sell. just depends on the customer.
my playing cue has a curly shaft that has a big black knot about 10 - 12 inches from the tip. i someday expect it to explode when i'm breaking, but so far !!!!!!!!

chuck
 
I agree some people like a little grain in their shafts. I'm fine with a little character in the shafts I shoot with as long as it's not sitting there within 6- 8 inches of the ferrule where it'll stand out more. Unless that knot denotes the sweet spot for holding that cue ;)

I'm surprised no one has marketed maple shafts with a little grain on them as shafts with character like was already said or some other positive way of spinning it other than the way it comes off now as sub-par. They could be called sugar and spice shafts, rough and raw, or figured shafts.

There have to be an awful lot of very playable shafts that get thrown away for simple stuff like that. I have a few shafts with sugar and grain showing that play very well. If it doesn't make the shaft warp faster or play worse or get directly in your line of sight like I said above then what can having a little grain or a tiny knot hurt.

I agree with you. When inspecting my dowels before tapering starts I carefully inspect and decide which end will be the joint and which the ferrule. The cleanest and straightest grain go's to the ferrule end. Although a blemish, sugar, highlight or an inclusion won't affect the playability of the shaft it could affect the player's concentration. You are correct that a lot of good shaft blanks are discarded but that is one of the reasons a person buys a custom cue. They want perfection. After inspection, and before the shaft blanks are turned below .750, all that don't meet my criteria as far as looks are put aside and used as coring dowels or deco-rings and so forth.

Dick
 
Best to set it aside for another cue (maybe one of your personal players) and make up another for that customer cue.

The Titlist I play with has its shafts made from Tru-Balance one-piece cues (which are not complete as of this writing). In order to get the 'meat' I needed to make (reasonably) straight shafts, one of them shows just the tips of the points from the 'forearm' of the Tru-Balance.

It doesn't bother me at all, will allow it to be identified forever, there is no question where the wood came from, and it's unusual.

Not a typical practice, and unless your buyer is OK with this 'unique' shaft you have, I think it is best to provide the customer with what he (or she) is expecting visually, as well as how it plays.

If it will delay shipping the cue to the customer, offer to make up a replacement that will ship to him when ready upon receipt of the 'knotty' (naughty?) shaft from him. That should keep you on delivery schedule and the customer should be well pleased as well. After he plays with this shaft, he may decide to keep it after all too! You never know! (But it should be the customer's choice in my opinion).
 
I have a super nice shaft that I want to use for the cue. Problem is there is a very very small knot about 6 inches below the joint. I mean its the size of pin and Id hoped it would cut out but shaft is to final size and there it is. Is there anything you can do to cover this thing up or fill it so it looks natural. I dont what to make to much of it but it kinda bugs me. I hate to throw away such a nice shaft. Thanks for any advise.

Mark

No matter how you try to spin it, you can't have anything defective out there with your name one it. I don't care if the customer says no problem. At some point it may come back to haunt you and you won't even know about as you are knocked behind you back. Never let detective stuff get out on the market. A defect is a defect and will reflect on you. Now what to do with it. You could always use it on your own cue. Cue makers often play with their mistakes. You could also set it aside and if you get a used production cue put it on the cue to make it serviceable and make no claim to the shaft. the buyer will be happy if the price is right. they won't care as long as it plays OK. You often expect to see that kind of stuff on cheaper production cues. You just don't want your name on it.
 
No matter how you try to spin it, you can't have anything defective out there with your name one it. I don't care if the customer says no problem. At some point it may come back to haunt you and you won't even know about as you are knocked behind you back. Never let detective stuff get out on the market. A defect is a defect and will reflect on you. Now what to do with it. You could always use it on your own cue. Cue makers often play with their mistakes. You could also set it aside and if you get a used production cue put it on the cue to make it serviceable and make no claim to the shaft. the buyer will be happy if the price is right. they won't care as long as it plays OK. You often expect to see that kind of stuff on cheaper production cues. You just don't want your name on it.

I'd have to see the knot in question to determine whether it's a defect or not. While I agree with your post in general, I disagree about aesthetic defects. My cues have LOTS of aesthetic defects & I sign my name to them proudly. It doesn't affect my reputation. I actually search for & stock shaft wood with high sugar content and/or dark color. People love it. Not only do they expect it, but they request it. It's never debated whether high sugar content and dark color produces better playing shafts. The general consensus I see among TOP builders is that high sugar content & old brown wood is more stable, stiffer, denser, more lively, etc. The problem is that it's ugly & their customers don't want it, even if it means sacrificing playability for quality. Nobody says it like that but it's exactly what's happening.

My point is, there's a double standard for cuemakers that I do not believe is right. The shaft this guy has might look bad on him if he uses it but I could use the same shaft in one of my cues & people would rave about it. The nuts & bolts of the matter is that it's a rock solid awesome shaft & will make an awesome player, but he's afraid the aesthetic defect will cause him trouble. So again, playability is being sacrificed for appearances. I get by with it no problem. I never led my buyers on to believe that they should be getting "pretty" shaft wood from me. I built my reputation on awesome playing ugly wood and that's what people want when they buy my cues. But another builder is pressured to use only "pretty" wood??? It's a double standard. It's cuemakers' fault. Unless we as builders educate our buyers & PROVE to them that ugly wood often times trumps pretty wood in the playability dept., then the double standard will continue. We might as well tell our customers, "here's a good looking piece of wood that plays just ok but it doesn't matter because it looks so good. I threw away an amazing playing shaft because it was ugly. I'm here to serve you". That's basically what's happening, isn't it? I know the sugar & color isn't the issue with the OP's shaft, but the idea is the same.

I'm not trying to argue or point fingers. I'm just telling it like I see it. I think we are dealing with double standards. Something is wrong when a pinnacle cuemaker who knows as much about cues as anybody is afraid to use wood that he knows is the best but thinks people won't accept because of aesthetics. We aren't doing ourselves any favors. I'd personally love to see & play with cues built by the best cuemakers out of high sugar content brown shaft wood. And from what they tell me, they'd love to be able to build them but won't because it's expected of them to use only the white, clean stuff. It's a crippling standard.
 
I had Richard Black make a couple more shafts for a cue I used to play with (my main player). That cue was originally made in ~1979 and had darker shaft wood.

I requested the old, air-dried, dark shaft wood specifically because it looks 'right' on the old cue and also because I think it plays well.

Richard agreed with me, saying he also prefers the old darker wood to the new 'white' wood.

Maple is not white. The newer shaft blanks I am getting are quite light (near white) but I don't think they are better because of it.

Relevance? I don't know. The last post from qbuilder made me write that!:o
 
I'd have to see the knot in question to determine whether it's a defect or not. While I agree with your post in general, I disagree about aesthetic defects. My cues have LOTS of aesthetic defects & I sign my name to them proudly. It doesn't affect my reputation. I actually search for & stock shaft wood with high sugar content and/or dark color. People love it. Not only do they expect it, but they request it. It's never debated whether high sugar content and dark color produces better playing shafts. The general consensus I see among TOP builders is that high sugar content & old brown wood is more stable, stiffer, denser, more lively, etc. The problem is that it's ugly & their customers don't want it, even if it means sacrificing playability for quality. Nobody says it like that but it's exactly what's happening.

My point is, there's a double standard for cuemakers that I do not believe is right. The shaft this guy has might look bad on him if he uses it but I could use the same shaft in one of my cues & people would rave about it. The nuts & bolts of the matter is that it's a rock solid awesome shaft & will make an awesome player, but he's afraid the aesthetic defect will cause him trouble. So again, playability is being sacrificed for appearances. I get by with it no problem. I never led my buyers on to believe that they should be getting "pretty" shaft wood from me. I built my reputation on awesome playing ugly wood and that's what people want when they buy my cues. But another builder is pressured to use only "pretty" wood??? It's a double standard. It's cuemakers' fault. Unless we as builders educate our buyers & PROVE to them that ugly wood often times trumps pretty wood in the playability dept., then the double standard will continue. We might as well tell our customers, "here's a good looking piece of wood that plays just ok but it doesn't matter because it looks so good. I threw away an amazing playing shaft because it was ugly. I'm here to serve you". That's basically what's happening, isn't it? I know the sugar & color isn't the issue with the OP's shaft, but the idea is the same.

I'm not trying to argue or point fingers. I'm just telling it like I see it. I think we are dealing with double standards. Something is wrong when a pinnacle cuemaker who knows as much about cues as anybody is afraid to use wood that he knows is the best but thinks people won't accept because of aesthetics. We aren't doing ourselves any favors. I'd personally love to see & play with cues built by the best cuemakers out of high sugar content brown shaft wood. And from what they tell me, they'd love to be able to build them but won't because it's expected of them to use only the white, clean stuff. It's a crippling standard.

I have a few buckets of shafts that were bought back in Mich in my early days that were discarded as "no good" for one reason or another. One day I pulled a bucket of them out of the corner and started looking at them and put them back between centers. I now have a few more shafts that are back in circulation because my knowledge has grown a little over the years.
Glad I didn't burn them in the fire place or use them for dowels!
 
darker wood is good

Not a cuemaker but I do like the darker wood shafts even with the sugar marks and knots. They just play better. The newer white shafts are dried differently which does affect their playing characteristics, is how it was explained to me by multiple cuemakers.
 
I'm gonna have to charge more for the ugly wood I have been selling!

Just maybe. That ugly wood isn't so easy to find nowadays. I'm gonna cut a few trees this winter and quarter saw them into 5/4 lumber, then sticker & air dry them in the barn. The trees I have chosen vary in size and growing condition so hopefully I can get some useful knowledge from the experiment......and just maybe some awesome shaft wood. The idea behind it is to process the lumber exactly the way it was done 100 yrs ago and hopefully find the formula to reproducing the wood everybody loves scavenging from old brunswick cues. Maybe it'll work, maybe not. But i'll sure find out.
 
Just maybe. That ugly wood isn't so easy to find nowadays. I'm gonna cut a few trees this winter and quarter saw them into 5/4 lumber, then sticker & air dry them in the barn. The trees I have chosen vary in size and growing condition so hopefully I can get some useful knowledge from the experiment......and just maybe some awesome shaft wood. The idea behind it is to process the lumber exactly the way it was done 100 yrs ago and hopefully find the formula to reproducing the wood everybody loves scavenging from old brunswick cues. Maybe it'll work, maybe not. But i'll sure find out.

That will be interesting, do a forum reality thread so we can all follow along. I really enjoy those.
 
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