Small turnaround at US open? where are all pool pros?

Youre right

JAM said:
I don't blame you one bit. It's about time pool promoters begin to look out for themselves as far as financial gain, especially since there is little to no appreciation for what it takes to create a professional pool event. It's a thankless job for sure. Professional pool, as most know, is a rich man's high, nothing more and nothing less.

Today, I see some younger pro players on top of the world, and then I am reminded of those pros who age and pass away, sometimes with no friends or loved ones surrounding them during their time of need.

Bonus Ball is just the final nail in the coffin. American professional pool has been circling the drain for several years now. There is no new blood getting into competition. There are no professional tours. The BCA, the supposed representative of professional pool in the U.S., seems to turn a blind eye to the current state of affairs.

Wishing you all the best, Mark. League pool is where it's at. Pool should be fun, and those who are recreational shooters do have fun. Professional pool is a dog-eat-dog world, and the American pool culture is a fickle bunch of fans, to boot.

I'm going to say something that I'm sure will get me slammed, but I would like nothing more than to see Shane Van Boening go to college while he's still young. He's a good kid and deserves a better future than one afforded by the pool industry. I feel the same way about Brandon Shuff.
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Jam,
Youre exactly right. As a person who loves pool if you dont love the Pool League System right now then you dont love pool. There isnt any money in it and we all go round and round trying to figure out a way to find a modest profit in it and Im going to have my go at it I assure you.

I keep looking a venues, costs and different formulas for putting on an event and I tend to think Mr. Griffin is right about being selective and invitationals especially if there is a lot of added money to consider. I wont have that kind of money to add if I ever get my plan off the ground, but I assure you if there isnt someone in the industry willing to sponsor the added money I wont be sticking my neck out with it. Ive found a few venues where the seating is taken care of and thats the only way it even has a chance to work.

Consider a tractor trailer full of tables, rent on a venue, seating arrangement, vendors, pipe an drape, insurance, tournament direction,fees etc. You cant have your neck out for added money as an upstart promoter and hope that people come in to not only cover the added money you put in....just to get you to break even then....maybe you get paid. That is as good a no win scenario as I can find and I simply wont put my neck out that far to put out a tournament to listen to why cant you do this? and why cant you do that?

Youre right promoters have to look out for themselves. Just like in any business. The brand they are trying to sell has to stand up to the demands of the market. The brands here are all on feet and have minds of their own and when they decide to act like they deserve to be promoted then I guess that will happen.

Pool is a wonderful game and its fun to play when you start to understand how to do it, but it can take awhile for it to avail itself to you at that level and it takes practice to keep the best of skills. Its a peoples game and a lot more people used to play it. It needs dignity, respect, goodwill and fun to make it work and make it consumable by the members of anyones family. All the other stuff is garbage. Its a shame that just as you suggest that it might not be in a players best interest to make it a living but that is what it is. It doesnt mean that pool wont exist. It might mean that it is pared back to what might just make it and what people might want to see. There is a whole list of things that go along with being considered a professional at anything that need to be present. Im sure it confuses some people as to what to do when it comes to making a living at pool, but the current realities are what they are. When promoters cant sell the product its sure not the promoters fault....its the brand.
 
336Robin said:
Jam,
Youre exactly right. As a person who loves pool if you dont love the Pool League System right now then you dont love pool. There isnt any money in it and we all go round and round trying to figure out a way to find a modest profit in it and Im going to have my go at it I assure you.

I keep looking a venues, costs and different formulas for putting on an event and I tend to think Mr. Griffin is right about being selective and invitationals especially if there is a lot of added money to consider. I wont have that kind of money to add if I ever get my plan off the ground, but I assure you if there isnt someone in the industry willing to sponsor the added money I wont be sticking my neck out with it. Ive found a few venues where the seating is taken care of and thats the only way it even has a chance to work.

Consider a tractor trailer full of tables, rent on a venue, seating arrangement, vendors, pipe an drape, insurance, tournament direction,fees etc. You cant have your neck out for added money as an upstart promoter and hope that people come in to not only cover the added money you put in....just to get you to break even then....maybe you get paid. That is as good a no win scenario as I can find and I simply wont put my neck out that far to put out a tournament to listen to why cant you do this? and why cant you do that?

Youre right promoters have to look out for themselves. Just like in any business. The brand they are trying to sell has to stand up to the demands of the market. The brands here are all on feet and have minds of their own and when they decide to act like they deserve to be promoted then I guess that will happen.

Pool is a wonderful game and its fun to play when you start to understand how to do it, but it can take awhile for it to avail itself to you at that level and it takes practice to keep the best of skills. Its a peoples game and a lot more people used to play it. It needs dignity, respect, goodwill and fun to make it work and make it consumable by the members of anyones family. All the other stuff is garbage. Its a shame that just as you suggest that it might not be in a players best interest to make it a living but that is what it is. It doesnt mean that pool wont exist. It might mean that it is pared back to what might just make it and what people might want to see. There is a whole list of things that go along with being considered a professional at anything that need to be present. Im sure it confuses some people as to what to do when it comes to making a living at pool, but the current realities are what they are. When promoters cant sell the product its sure not the promoters fault....its the brand.
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This is a good post, and I agree.

It is a "given" that pro players have to win, place, or show in most pool tournaments in order to break even, due to the expenses.

This week's U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, requiring the majority of players to incur 8 days of expenses, you must really, really love pool in order to go through this. The European favorites, of course, get to fly in today on Tuesday, without incurring those 3 extra days that the rest of the competitors have to incur. This favoritism continues to happen, and this makes me sick! :angry:

The U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship platform is flawed, even though Barry Behrman keeps it going each year. I applaud him for that, but he might want to think about scaling down to half, 128-player roster. It would fill up beforehand, allowing him to get the logistics in order, instead of scrambling the day of the event. The draw can be made, and the charts will be in full view for all to know when and what time they play. The 256-player field is not a good tournament model in today's economic times.

Heck, everything is expensive. I just finished working on a project that a promoter wanted to purchase a tent for a 3,000-member congregation for a church revival. The cost for just the tent was $100,000, and that doesn't include seating or anything else.

Promoters, like the pro players, are facing an uphill battle in the American pool world. Many regional tours now ban the so-called "pro player" in their events. The occupational hazards of the pro player -- prostitution, substance abuse, gambling, -- are many. The higher they rise, the harder that slam will be when they can't run a rack of balls anymore. They will find out how many people are truly their friends when they're broke, sick, or can't play at a top level.

Social shooters, recreational players, amateur weekend warriors, this is where pool shines the brightest. Pool is now a game, not a sport, and should be enjoyed in these environments.

God bless all professional pool players. I pray for them to land softly when the reality of a bleak-looking destiny raises its ugly head.
 
JumpinJoe said:
Don't worry, bonus ball will NEVER make it. The game is to complicated to get the average joe interested. I'd love to drive thru McDonald's and see Rodney Morris or some of the others flipping burgers
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I would not love to see Rodney flipping burgers.

I hope that professional pool becomes a reality.

Rodney may have to flip burgers and that's okay if that's his choice. There isn't wrong with it if that's his dream.

I wouldn't wish bad things for professional pool, and shame on you for doing so.

Ken
 
People have to remember billiards started as a rich man's game or sport and will continue to do so. First you need an expensive ass table to play. Got to find one somewhere if you can't afford it and when you find it, expect to pay a lot of money/hours just to play. Then buy an expensive ass stick, yes, $100 or $200 for a stick is expensive.

Therefore, the poor or middle class have to play pool to hustle. They are playing a rich man's game and trying to hustle a rich man. That's the history of the game. Now these people great players want to turn it into a pro sport. History repeating itself again, stealing from the rich or trying to make money from a game that was intended to hustle the rich.

Pool is like golf also. You can't just go and play and have immediate gratification. It's a game of practice, time and patience. People have no time for that. There are other things to get good at than this game. It's for our enjoyment but not an occupation.

The dream of it being big is long gone once ESPN ditched it for a game where you look at cards.
 
JCIN said:
I counted the Souther Classic as one and now that I think of it it may not have been a points event I do not remember but it was a major tournament.

US Open 10 Ball and 8 Ball were points events. They will not be back.

Ultimate 10 Ball was a points event will not be returning.

Thats four large added money open events gone.

Those four events all had BB scheduling and the noise and hassle that went along with it as a factor in deciding not to go again in 2014. BB will say they have no impact but I know that is not the case. Some won't believe me and thats fine I don't really care.

Last I heard Turning Stone will be down to one event this year due to some remodeling at the casino. Maybe that changes who knows.

Bringing the total points events to the Bigfoot at DCC and one Turning Stone event. If the US Open 9 Ball is around that may make it three.
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This is big news... should have it's own thread, IMO.

Lou Figueroa
 
Mark Griffin said:
Everybody is entitled to opinions. Even me.

What JCIN said is pretty accurate. And you are wrong. It is a FACT that I have changed my whole outlook on professional pool and pool players. BB was a major part of that decision. The attitude of the 'pro' players is a major part of that decision.

It s not a convenient scapegoat. I am just not going to put up with the arrogance and attitudes of so many of the 'pro' players. I will be doing some kind of invitational events - with an international field (maybe 16 players or so).

I will not subject me or my staff to spend close to $90,000 (for the 3 events) and listen to the *****ing BEFORE the event because we charge registration and late fees. And then listen to Rodney Morris, who won $15,000, declare he doesn't like me and similar nonsense. It's all rather simple, if I do invitational events, I can deal with the players I feel are respectful of the game.

I can only say that the players have no one but themselves to blame. There are about a dozen US players that will NOT be playing in any more of my events. As others have said, they are not a draw, they are very high maintenance and just not worth it.

So there you have it- and that's the truth! And I'm not giving up on pool, just giving up on some of the US pro players. And it is ONLY these players. The foreigners always behave themselves.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI
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So, Mark, what are your plans for the US Open 1Pocket?

As to the rest, I knew it was coming but it's still a shock. But I cannot say I blame you.

Lou Figueroa
 
The Animals

Mark Griffin said:
Everybody is entitled to opinions. Even me.

What JCIN said is pretty accurate. And you are wrong. It is a FACT that I have changed my whole outlook on professional pool and pool players. BB was a major part of that decision. The attitude of the 'pro' players is a major part of that decision.

It s not a convenient scapegoat. I am just not going to put up with the arrogance and attitudes of so many of the 'pro' players. I will be doing some kind of invitational events - with an international field (maybe 16 players or so).

I will not subject me or my staff to spend close to $90,000 (for the 3 events) and listen to the *****ing BEFORE the event because we charge registration and late fees. And then listen to Rodney Morris, who won $15,000, declare he doesn't like me and similar nonsense. It's all rather simple, if I do invitational events, I can deal with the players I feel are respectful of the game.

I can only say that the players have no one but themselves to blame. There are about a dozen US players that will NOT be playing in any more of my events. As others have said, they are not a draw, they are very high maintenance and just not worth it.

So there you have it- and that's the truth! And I'm not giving up on pool, just giving up on some of the US pro players. And it is ONLY these players. The foreigners always behave themselves.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI
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Mark nice perspective....your descriptions are reality....up front and in your face of what its like dealing with the politics of pro pool players, their egos, their needs and their ''wanting things their way''. Many of our player/animals are seemingly ''always'' living paycheck to paycheck, their thinking is always skewed by the DOLLAR....Tomorrows needs and their lack of planning.
 
I hope nobody misinterprets my previous posts that I am blaming pro players for the current state of affairs in American pool.

First off, what good is the WPA ranking? What has the WPA done for America lately?

Secondly, the BCA, the organization that is supposed to be representing professional pool in the U.S., has dropped the ball. They don't seem to be doing anything for professional pool.

They should change their name to the Billiard Industry Member Association instead of the Billiard Congress of America. Where's the congress? I don't get it. To have the BCA still representing American professional pool is a joke, as is the WPA.

The pro players today are a product of the WPA and BCA treating them like crap.
 
Screw the self absorbed and spoiled. Invest in the amateurs. There will always be *****ing but at least 99% will appreciate your effort.
 
Just Curious????

How did a lot of the top players know to not even show up until after the first day of the US Open was played?

I know these guys were not waiting to see the draw before they made their travel arrangements, yet they showed up after the first day and they all happen to have bye's as well. I thought the US Open was an open draw format, not a seeded tournament?

Just Curious???
 
CO Nineballer said:
How did a lot of the top players know to not even show up until after the first day of the US Open was played?

I know these guys were not waiting to see the draw before they made their travel arrangements, yet they showed up after the first day and they all happen to have bye's as well. I thought the US Open was an open draw format, not a seeded tournament?

Just Curious???
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It's seeded, always has been. What method they are using, though, is anybody's guess, how they're seeding it. But it's seeded.
 
gxman said:
wow!

so no U.S open 10b, 8b, nor ultimate 10b in 2014??
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Nope.

However the new ABP TOUR is coming. And the return of BONUS BALL, should be exciting. Oh and how could we forget the only "WORLD" championship of 14.1.

Lmao

P.S. When Vegas time rolls around it will be jam packed with league players though, we still get to have fun. :)
 
I don't mind this. Hopefully "pro pool" will die out by 2016 and they can all go out and start working. I think everyone will be happier that way.
 
driz86 said:
I don't mind this. Hopefully "pro pool" will die out by 2016 and they can all go out and start working. I think everyone will be happier that way.
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They will definitely get a Frosty' perspective, eh Scott?
 
As far as the US Open One Pocket - there are some ideas floating around.

I find most of the One Pocket players have a better attitude thant the rotational players. Dont ask me why.

If someone has some ideas, please email me: Markg@playcsipool.com

The issue I am trying to avoid is having too many 9' tables in Vegas. The costs climb when transporting tables.

Mark Griffin
 
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