So where does STROKE POWER come from?

9BallBust-O

9BallBust-O

Draw that Rock
Silver Member
I get the whole stroke idea. I keep my arm very still only elbow moves, keep my body inline with the shot, im down on it , loose grip , follow through , stay down.
Here is the part I cant figure out and I guess it kind of relates to the Allison/Jasmine thread - where does the power for the stroke come from. Example .. I can line up a shot and hit it as hard as I would a break but the cue ball will not react the correct way. I can line up a draw shot from one end of the long rail to the other end and draw back to the top again but thats about it. Hitting the ball harder does nothing so how do I get some more power?
 
You need to improve your stroke fundamentals. The harder a shot ie. power the more a stroke flaw is revealed. Power is all about mechanics, its about how fast you can consistantly and repeatably bring your grip hand from pause to the finish position.

I would strongly suggest that you find a qualified instructor in your area to work with you on this.
 
To expand on what raodwarrior said...There is a signficant difference between using "force", which equates to tight grip and muscled swings; and "finesse", which utilizes the weight of the cuestick and perfectly timed throwing motions. In other words, you will get more STUFF by learning how to finesse the stroke, rather than trying to muscle it. I agree with raodwarrior's comment about you needing work on your mechanics and fundamentals. Seek out a qualified instructor, as it's likely you're not striking the CB where you think you are, anyway...and this may be largely responsible for why you're not getting a predictable response from the CB.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Wild Guess

Ok, I'm going to throw out a couple of wild guesses and hope one of them comes close...

Trying to think of how I apply more backspin with a stroke, it transfers more forward motion into the struck ball, therefor a well-stroked hit can transfer as much power as a less-stroked slamming of the cue ball.

I'd also guess that slamming into the cb would transfer enough power to throw the cb off of the tip immediately, whereas in a stroked shot you are transfering the power more slowly, keeping the cb under more control and more in line with the stroke that you are using, and lastly you would want the cue stick to be traveling along a straight path through the cue ball until the tip leaves the contact point in a more natural way (instead of possibly jerking the stick and adding unwanted effects).

Think of how bar players use backspin.. without a stroke, the ball is simply hit hard at a low contact point (meaning you are pressing the ball forward, just lower) and does not draw back much, if at all. While stroking through the cb will apply the forward motion to the cue ball while also applying more spin - it's like a top or yo-yo, without much thread you normally can't do much with a lot of finesse, but the longer thread will allow you to really get it spinning for a longer period of time.

As they said above, the better you get with your stroke, the faster you will be able to stroke a shot and therefor will have more power in your shot.

Disclaimer: I'm just a newbie. :confused:
 
Have you verified your stroke. In other words after you hit the CB where does your cue tip end up. If you don't know pay attention to your post shot position. Next as Scott Lee said, are you sure you're hitting the CB where you think you are. If you don't have one of those training balls, take a CB and put something like silicone and spray a rag and wipe it on the CB. This will hold the chalk on the CB then try to hit the spot on the ball. The chalk mark will not lie. The most power comes from dead center hits. Now the controversy IMO power ie break shots come from cue speed not cue weight. I get 10 rails on a 3C table with a 18 oz cue when 9 was max with a 19.5oz cue. That proved it for me.
 
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Scott Lee said:
To expand on what raodwarrior said...There is a signficant difference between using "force", which equates to tight grip and muscled swings; and "finesse", which utilizes the weight of the cuestick and perfectly timed throwing motions. In other words, you will get more STUFF by learning how to finesse the stroke, rather than trying to muscle it. I agree with raodwarrior's comment about you needing work on your mechanics and fundamentals. Seek out a qualified instructor, as it's likely you're not striking the CB where you think you are, anyway...and this may be largely responsible for why you're not getting a predictable response from the CB.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

tap tap tap.

Good post, that's what I was thinking too, only you put it better than I would have. Good thing you posted first.:D
 
A stroke:

1)gradual acceleration through the cueball;
2)peak acceleration at contact;
3)no muscle involvement;

I'd say what generates power is #2. Muscle will arrest the acceleration of the cue. Scott, am I getting warm? I've been learning a lot from just reading your posts, Scott. Thank you.

BTW, we have to remember speed kills the spin. You want enough speed that the backspin will remain until contact, but not so much that the draw won't have a chance to grab the cloth.

Question: Is there a difference between speed and acceleration? Can I generate more power with lots of acceleration and less speed?

A developed stroke is so beautiful to watch because it is counterintuitive and surprising. Who would have thought when starting out in the game that less muscle equals more power?
 
The straighter you can stroke at a higher speed, the more power you have in your stroke. Being able to hit exactly where you are aiming at and aligned to on the cueball at different speeds is key. This is basically what all of good fundamentals boil down to. Sending the cueball to exactly where you are aiming, and striking the cueball exactly where you want to.
 
Lewdo's got it

lewdo26 said:
A stroke:

1)gradual acceleration through the cueball;
2)peak acceleration at contact;
3)no muscle involvement;

I'd say what generates power is #2. Muscle will arrest the acceleration of the cue. Scott, am I getting warm? I've been learning a lot from just reading your posts, Scott. Thank you.

BTW, we have to remember speed kills the spin. You want enough speed that the backspin will remain until contact, but not so much that the draw won't have a chance to grab the cloth.

Question: Is there a difference between speed and acceleration? Can I generate more power with lots of acceleration and less speed?

A developed stroke is so beautiful to watch because it is counterintuitive and surprising. Who would have thought when starting out in the game that less muscle equals more power?
Click to expand...


Imo the key to being able to really generate a lot of spin is to acclerate through the ball.
 
9BallBust-O said:
I get the whole stroke idea. I keep my arm very still only elbow moves, keep my body inline with the shot, im down on it , loose grip , follow through , stay down.
Here is the part I cant figure out and I guess it kind of relates to the Allison/Jasmine thread - where does the power for the stroke come from. Example .. I can line up a shot and hit it as hard as I would a break but the cue ball will not react the correct way. I can line up a draw shot from one end of the long rail to the other end and draw back to the top again but thats about it. Hitting the ball harder does nothing so how do I get some more power?
Click to expand...
The stroke is a "throwing motion" like a great baseball pitcher. The top of the swing is where it stops at the back and starts headin' forward, this is the beginning of the throw. All baseball pitchers can not throw it 100 mph some in the low 90's and some in the upper 90's, but how you throw or deliver the motion of throwing creates the power. This aspect of striking the cue ball is your style and inturn 'your' stroke. Hope this concept helps.
 
lewdo26 said:
A stroke:

1)gradual acceleration through the cueball;
2)peak acceleration at contact;
3)no muscle involvement;

I'd say what generates power is #2. Muscle will arrest the acceleration of the cue. Scott, am I getting warm? I've been learning a lot from just reading your posts, Scott. Thank you.

BTW, we have to remember speed kills the spin. You want enough speed that the backspin will remain until contact, but not so much that the draw won't have a chance to grab the cloth.

Question: Is there a difference between speed and acceleration? Can I generate more power with lots of acceleration and less speed?

A developed stroke is so beautiful to watch because it is counterintuitive and surprising. Who would have thought when starting out in the game that less muscle equals more power?
Click to expand...

And contacting the QB in the right place. As said previously.

Speed is a constant, acceleration is a change in speed, (or direction).

Less or more muscle is not as important as the type of muscle.
 
9BallBust-O said:
I get the whole stroke idea. I keep my arm very still only elbow moves, keep my body inline with the shot, im down on it , loose grip , follow through , stay down.
Here is the part I cant figure out and I guess it kind of relates to the Allison/Jasmine thread - where does the power for the stroke come from. Example .. I can line up a shot and hit it as hard as I would a break but the cue ball will not react the correct way. I can line up a draw shot from one end of the long rail to the other end and draw back to the top again but thats about it. Hitting the ball harder does nothing so how do I get some more power?
Click to expand...

I read all the replys.

imho, you're not getting the back of your stick low to the table. I've mentioned in the past, that the back of your stick souldn't be more than 4" (inches) above the surface of the rail when doing "power" shots.

As many mentioned, your stroke is where your power comes from. But, if your stroke is always driving the cue ball into the table (which makes it hop, fighting gravity while in the air) then that's where your power problem lies.
 
The CB doesn't know the difference between what how the cue is stroked or whether or not it was accellerating on impact.

It reacts according to cue tip velocity, direction, point of impact and effective mass of the cue.

The faster the CB is hit, and the lower (relative to center) that it is struck, the further it will draw back.

If you want fast cue tip speed (like club head speed in golf) then you can adapt some lessons learned in analyzing a powerful break, such as lifting the upper body to lengthen and accellerate the arm, slow long backswing, timing of the wrist flick etc. All these unfortunately reduce accuracy when striking the CB low.

For a more powerful controlled stroke, I advise work on timing the wrist flick. Relax the wrist a bit longer than usually until it flexes back during the through stroke, then contract the wrist muscles. This will take some getting used to, but will result in a powerful but easy looking stroke.

Anyway, if you're hitting the CB low enough, you needn't have to hit with extreme power very often and should be able to get all the draw you need with a controlled firm stroke. A good general tip is to not rush to use power, build accelleration more gradually rather than jerking hard at the cue from the back of the backswing.

Note: Does anyone have a link to the accelleration tests that were done, showing that the cue has little accelleration on the point of impact. (The highest rate of accelleration is at the back of the backswing- don't confuse accelleration for velocity here. Accelleration is change in velocity over time.)

Colin
 
Have you ever drove a golf ball??? The harder you swing the less farther it goes. Have you ever hit a home run in baseball when you were only trying to connect and get a single??? The harder you swing the less distance the ball goes......Follow thru is key in every sport.
In pool it is the same. Remember, "power is not stroke. Stroke is power"......Does that make sense????
 
I do understand - I think someone put lead in my cue ball. Ive messed my stroke up some how. I guess it will be my Saturday project to work on. UGH
 
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