Some evidence of what I have long suspected about Fargorating

[jalapus logan]

Speaking of motivation....right now my Woke Fargo rating is zero ...I can't summon the will power to unglue myself from this damn couch right now.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Is anyone really obligated to play on kill?

Yes.

It is actually a good question. I don't think it's actually sandbagging if someone can't always bring ultimate focus and energy level to every match. That's actually one of the things that separates the top players from the rest of us. I have performed much better than expected against players much better than me because if I win, I knocked down a giant, and if they win, all they have done is beaten a chump. Against lower level players, I have done worse because I'm frustrated that I can blow them off the table.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

Yes.

It is actually a good question. I don't think it's actually sandbagging if someone can't always bring ultimate focus and energy level to every match. That's actually one of the things that separates the top players from the rest of us. I have performed much better than expected against players much better than me because if I win, I knocked down a giant, and if they win, all they have done is beaten a chump. Against lower level players, I have done worse because I'm frustrated that I can blow them off the table.

A rating system, especially an ELO type, expects that every game is played as well as the player is able. As you said, many things can factor into that, but 'I don't give a shit' shouldn't be one of them very often.

 

[tomatoshooter]

A rating system, especially an ELO type, expects that every game is played as well as the player is able. As you said, many things can factor into that, but 'I don't give a shit' shouldn't be one of them very often.

I often struggle to get the focus, or maybe I am ready for someone to beat me so I can get a break, but when I'm down on the ball, I cannot not try. I can't always engage stone cold assassin mode, but I never give up.

 

[mikepage]

I have long since maintained that due to tiredness, apathy and other factors that I play well below my speed in league play. Which skews my fargo downward. It seems I always go up a bit after out of town events and down a bit when the drudgery of league play returns. Of course this has been refuted aggressively.

[...]

This is as aggressive as I get ;-)

You are rated 602.
In the least 12 months you've played 283 LEAGUE games.
Your average opponent has been rated 400.5

You won 225 and lost 57. That's very close to 4-to-1, the expectation for a 200-point gap. That works out to 598 speed. Had you won but ONE more of those games, you'd be performing at 602 speed.

There is nothing to see here. It could be you are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and lose a game you might otherwise have won. But remember, this is league for your opponents too, and they are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and you as a result win a game you might otherwise have lost.

 

[Chili Palmer]

This is as aggressive as I get ;-)

You are rated 602.
In the least 12 months you've played 283 LEAGUE games.
Your average opponent has been rated 400.5

You won 225 and lost 57. That's very close to 4-to-1, the expectation for a 200-point gap. That works out to 598 speed. Had you won but ONE more of those games, you'd be performing at 602 speed.

There is nothing to see here. It could be you are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and lose a game you might otherwise have won. But remember, this is league for your opponents too, and they are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and you as a result win a game you might otherwise have lost.

In other words, it works but, some people just don't believe it.

And damn you Coos Cues for sandbagging that one game!

 

[book collector]

Could it possibly just boil down to not being as good as what the self-perception and ego thinks it should be?
If someone is involved in 100-yard sprints but not performing up to their own perceptions of what it should be,
do you blame it on the stopwatch or starting blocks?
Everybody else that gets rated by Fargorating is judged by the same stopwatch and starting blocks worldwide, so to speak.

A lot of people suffer from this at all levels.
I know personally, that once I admitted I was not the player I thought I was, my game actually improved. I took a lot of pressure off myself because I thought I should beat this guy or that all the time , but in reality , they played my speed or better.

 

[BRKNRUN]

In any sport....you have your top speed...low speed and your average speed.....you rarely play at your top speed...you rarely play at your low speed...the majority of people perform mostly somewhere from a little below to a little above.

As you get better your low speed will go up....until then you are where you are....

Shane could be stoned drunk and only able to keep 1 eye open....he is still going to shoot 700 speed

 

[Michael Fedak]

This is as aggressive as I get ;-)

You are rated 602.
In the least 12 months you've played 283 LEAGUE games.
Your average opponent has been rated 400.5

You won 225 and lost 57. That's very close to 4-to-1, the expectation for a 200-point gap. That works out to 598 speed. Had you won but ONE more of those games, you'd be performing at 602 speed.

There is nothing to see here. It could be you are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and lose a game you might otherwise have won. But remember, this is league for your opponents too, and they are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and you as a result win a game you might otherwise have lost.

LOL, hilarious and well said, Mr.Page.
"Gosh, those darn statistics get in the way of my narrative again."

 

[nine_ball6970]

This is as aggressive as I get ;-)

You are rated 602.
In the least 12 months you've played 283 LEAGUE games.
Your average opponent has been rated 400.5

You won 225 and lost 57. That's very close to 4-to-1, the expectation for a 200-point gap. That works out to 598 speed. Had you won but ONE more of those games, you'd be performing at 602 speed.

There is nothing to see here. It could be you are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and lose a game you might otherwise have won. But remember, this is league for your opponents too, and they are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and you as a result win a game you might otherwise have lost.

He wasnt kidding about it being a soft league if average opponent is 400.5. Im not even sure if i know anyone that is 400 or lower here.

 

[jalapus logan]

This is as aggressive as I get ;-)

You are rated 602.
In the least 12 months you've played 283 LEAGUE games.
Your average opponent has been rated 400.5

You won 225 and lost 57. That's very close to 4-to-1, the expectation for a 200-point gap. That works out to 598 speed. Had you won but ONE more of those games, you'd be performing at 602 speed.

There is nothing to see here. It could be you are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and lose a game you might otherwise have won. But remember, this is league for your opponents too, and they are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and you as a result win a game you might otherwise have lost.

Well played sir. Do you get tired of winning? Your Fargo Logic rating is purdy damn high I would guess.

 

[jalapus logan]

He wasnt kidding about it being a soft league if average opponent is 400.5. Im not even sure if i know anyone that is 400 or lower here.

I dunno, based on these descriptions in the FAQ section of the Fargo website, I'd say I've seen many a 400-ish and below league player.

 

[Chili Palmer]

He wasnt kidding about it being a soft league if average opponent is 400.5. Im not even sure if i know anyone that is 400 or lower here.

Where I live there are two leagues - APA and BCA. I guarantee the APA is mostly 300'sh players with a few 400's sprinkled in, and a random 500 or so. BCA is probably 10% 300'sh, 40% 400-450, 30% 500'sh and 15% 550'sh and 5% 600'sh. A recent post on the local pool FB group indicated there are approximately 20-25 players over 600 (someone did their research) but not all of them active (me included). So I find it completely possible the average is 400. I will point out that Coos Cues lives in a small community, mine is quite a bit larger but still a small/medium city. I've been watching live streams from Amazin' Billiards in Boston and noticed there are quite a few 600+ players, it simply comes with the territory.

 

[Coos Cues]

This is as aggressive as I get ;-)

You are rated 602.
In the least 12 months you've played 283 LEAGUE games.
Your average opponent has been rated 400.5

You won 225 and lost 57. That's very close to 4-to-1, the expectation for a 200-point gap. That works out to 598 speed. Had you won but ONE more of those games, you'd be performing at 602 speed.

There is nothing to see here. It could be you are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and lose a game you might otherwise have won. But remember, this is league for your opponents too, and they are sometimes tired or apathetic or drunk or distracted and you as a result win a game you might otherwise have lost.That only covered half of the equation. Was the over 600 opponent games just a tiny sampling which is why I won most of those too? ?

Can you extract and analyze how the "other than league games" in the same year add up using the same data base?

That should show a 600 performance as well right if that's where I'm at including league games?

There must be a tiny sampling of players in that category that I have played is the only explanation of a 75% game win in the upper graph?

 

[Coos Cues]

Where I live there are two leagues - APA and BCA. I guarantee the APA is mostly 300'sh players with a few 400's sprinkled in, and a random 500 or so. BCA is probably 10% 300'sh, 40% 400-450, 30% 500'sh and 15% 550'sh and 5% 600'sh. A recent post on the local pool FB group indicated there are approximately 20-25 players over 600 (someone did their research) but not all of them active (me included). So I find it completely possible the average is 400. I will point out that Coos Cues lives in a small community, mine is quite a bit larger but still a small/medium city. I've been watching live streams from Amazin' Billiards in Boston and noticed there are quite a few 600+ players, it simply comes with the territory.

Pretty much sums it up. In a larger pool community near here, Eugene OR there are 5 times as many players and only a half dozen 600 plus in the BCA league. We have about 80 players

This is our league. Sad but that's what we have. You can click on the "player list" tab and sort the by fargo by clicking the top of the list.

FargoRate - League Management System

lms.fargorate.com

And here is Eugene, not much better really in spite of a ton more players.

FargoRate - League Management System

lms.fargorate.com

 

[ideologist]

Pretty much sums it up. In a larger pool community near here, Eugene OR there are 5 times as many players and only a half dozen 600 plus in the BCA league. We have about 80 players

This is our league. Sad but that's what we have. You can click on the "player list" tab and sort the by fargo by clicking the top of the list.

FargoRate - League Management System

lms.fargorate.com

And here is Eugene, not much better really in spite of a ton more players.

FargoRate - League Management System

lms.fargorate.com

The real question:

What is the ratio of players who say they paid their way through college by playing pool, in a small town?

What about in a larger town?

 

[Roy Steffensen]

The real question:

What is the ratio of players who say they paid their way through college by playing pool, in a small town?

What about in a larger town?

I played so much pool I completely forgot to go to school

 

[Chili Palmer]

I played so much pool I completely forgot to go to school

I also played pool instead of going to school, I often say I went to the University of Big John's (https://www.facebook.com/bigjohnsbilliards/)

 

[easy-e]

I

In any sport....you have your top speed...low speed and your average speed.....you rarely play at your top speed...you rarely play at your low speed...the majority of people perform mostly somewhere from a little below to a little above.

As you get better your low speed will go up....until then you are where you are....

Shane could be stoned drunk and only able to keep 1 eye open....he is still going to shoot 700 speed

I'd play SVB if he was stoned, drunk, and only had one eye open. I'll even spot him the first break.

 

[BasementDweller]

Can you extract and analyze how the "other than league games" in the same year add up using the same data base?

That should show a 600 performance as well right if that's where I'm at including league games?

There must be a tiny sampling of players in that category that I have played is the only explanation of a 75% game win in the upper graph?

I've argued your side in the past. Anyone that argues about anything Fargo related is arguing with one or both hands tied behind their back since we don't have access to all the data.

I thought your argument was clear and half of it has been addressed so far.