Something I found out about most Phenolic used for cues...

P

Piercyexclusive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
deleted......

Marshall Piercy

I deleted everything to may be satisfy people who can not understand that everything I posted was the info that was given to me...
But everyone was taking as though I was making it all up.
If you know the answer then stop asking.
if what you understand about ISO grading is different you could have just said ...this is how I understand ISO
but instead it seems like no matter how many times I say...this is what was told to me....no one understands.
and I repeat again and again...

ALL THE INFORMATION I HAVE SAID WAS INFORMATION GIVEN TO ME.......ALL i DID WAS PASS IT ALONG.
YOU WANT TO SLAUGHTER THE MESSENGER
BY ALL MEANS HAVE FUN NOW.

to all those who understood what I said thanks and thanks for being interested in being informed.

I just thought it would be nice to let people know that they should be more attentive to what they buy and to what other people offer.

you get what you pay for.
I was just explaining that sometimes you get something you didn't pay for and sometimes that was just sheer ignorance on poeple who buy phenolic....such as me. I was ignorant now I am not. I know what I need to buy vs what I buy cheap.

have a nice day everyone.




more about this whole thing......


Alright,
I try to ignore everyone who wants to say things to me about this thread or what I have said.

I am trying to help but of course those who see the world one way will never be open to new ideas even if the new ideas might be right.
I mean a statement that a discernible change of hit doesn't matter and shouldn't matter, to me is fine cause this would be something that could be debatable. to me those little things like that, you know the details, matter to me.

such as if I use rolled and molded and non heat treated vs sheet rod that is heat treated to 250 degrees instead of 300 degrees.
i mean it's just 50 degrees in difference does it matter?... in making phenolic and what your using it for, it does.
do you know what happens to the phenolic in the end product? why it was heat tread to a certain degree? and why it was heat treaded to begin with? are these terms general knowledge to the cuemaking world and or even the people who buy from us?

there is a minut change but it matters.

cause if I take everything that has a minute change into consideration then it will add up to something bigger. like saving pennies. you'll eventually have a dollar.

I know Im young. compared to most everyone here that makes cue, and I have been learning and feeding my self knowledge with everything that concerns cue making and finding my own results. But I never enforced my ides onto anyone I state my opinion and what facts I found yet it can never be someone just simply having a reasonable debate without belittling the opposition. I have come to accept this now.

I know though, in my heart, when I get to most peoples age who makes cues, 40-60, watch out I'll be right behind you or would have exceeded you by the time I reach your age. I am 28 and have been making cues when I was 16 and selling at 18. I got another 10-15 years to get to your age and thats a long time to improve myself.

I respect alot of cue maker here because I know for the most part I started with nothing and no money and I make all my equipment.
I never bought anything that was fully assembled. I got pics of all the machines and jigs I made. and truly, I doubt there are many who can say that.

but for everyone else reading this ....
from now on.......to prevent my blood from boiling,
I WILL try and never start a thread about subjects that deal with construction.
it's not healthy for me.
All my knowledge of how I make wood, to machines ,to the science of wood, to construction, and etc..... will be kept to me and me alone.

The funny thing is, who ever said that the way we are making anything today could never be improved on tomorrow.
I think for more than 50 or more years of making cues one way is today
when will tomorrow come?
by the looks of it and by the way everyone reacts to new ideas , maybe another 50 years? maybe more?

kinda like when I was told I couldn't reinvent the wheel when it came to cue making, but I did make a new construction.

what will it take for people to understand that the evolution of cue making is coming and any information that is being discovered should not be trashed right away. give it a chance.
Like I said I want to do an experiment to see if my theories are correct and I will make sure everyone will have access to it.

What are all the bashers gonna do? are they going to invest money into scientific research to prove me wrong. For the most part I think not. I think that's all it will ever come to is "their" word. People will always say I am wrong. Big words though got data to back up what your saying?

If you do prove me wrong I will freely admit that my theories are wrong. But guess what, I'll still get back up and make more theories and I will improve on myself and what I learn. Cause when you prove me wrong , I LEARN. and once I learn I will evolve, and move on and experiment more.

I am willing to be wrong and fail. just make sure it's through facts and not words.

I am willing to fall down on my face. I want to fall from time to time.
But, I will always get right back up.

please prove me wrong so I know what IS wrong so that I can be right with the right facts and the right instruction.

Marshall Piercy
 
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never knew about the ISO either .
And you can actually feel the difference in the hit ?
Good to know . .
Thanx !
 
Thanks, Marshall, thats good to know.
I received some black phenolic and it was as far as I'm concerned, absolute junk. It has white streaks through out. I supposed you can dye it, but if I have to do that, I don't want it.

The difference in hit is very interesting.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
Thanks, Marshall, thats good to know.
I received some black phenolic and it was as far as I'm concerned, absolute junk. It has white streaks through out. I supposed you can dye it, but if I have to do that, I don't want it.

The difference in hit is very interesting.
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Blue Hog ridr said:
Thanks, Marshall, thats good to know.
I received some black phenolic and it was as far as I'm concerned, absolute junk. It has white streaks through out. I supposed you can dye it, but if I have to do that, I don't want it.

The difference in hit is very interesting.
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Phenolic Grade

I have one cue with phenolic and have played with others. I felt they had a
crisp solid hit to them.

I had an old house cue made into a two piece cue with a phenolic collar by a well known cuemaker.

The hit and feel is horrible with any shaft and I could not understand why. It is not the cue it is solid.

It definitely is the collar. I think you explained my confusion. Thanks so much for information because it usually is only found through experience.

Thanks for the knowledge.
 
poke&hope said:
I have one cue with phenolic and have played with others. I felt they had a
crisp solid hit to them.

I had an old house cue made into a two piece cue with a phenolic collar by a well known cuemaker.

The hit and feel is horrible with any shaft and I could not understand why. It is not the cue it is solid.

It definitely is the collar. I think you explained my confusion. Thanks so much for information because it usually is only found through experience.

Thanks for the knowledge.
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Piercyexclusive said:
I have in the past been buying phenolic from many suppliers to use for cues and I have quit a stock of it.

one day I had a machinist guy come by my house to check out a cue for sale. when he came it he saw that I had some phenolic piled up. he then asked me if they were for sale. I said sure what do you need. he bought about 3/4 of what I had. then he came back just today cause he patiently waited till I was out of the hospital and told me the following.

the phenolic I had bought were low grade phenolic.
the iso was about 75-85 percent.
I asked him what that meant.

Marshall Piercy
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Why did he buy the phenolic from you when he didn't know what grade he was getting?

Then what was his purpose of telling you that it was a low grade?


There are higher grades in everything. Wood, ivory, leather and etc. That
is why some cue makers get higher prices for their cues. They know what quality they need to get that combination to make their cues above the rest.
 
What is the ISO grading?
I could ot fid one.
I did find a chart comparing different types of Phenolics with different manufacturers.
None had an iso rating for the material.
There were different grades, like a fine 1, medium 2, medium 3.
The course 3, has voids and the such. for the best finish it was recommended to use fine 1,
There is alot of info about. http://www.professionalplastics.com/PHENOLICSPECS

This is from England-Tufnol company
http://www.tufnol.co.uk/tufnol/default.asp?id=102
http://www.tufnol.co.uk/tufnol/default.asp?id=21
 
TheBook said:
Why did he buy the phenolic from you when he didn't know what grade he was getting?

Then what was his purpose of telling you that it was a low grade?


There are higher grades in everything. Wood, ivory, leather and etc. That
is why some cue makers get higher prices for their cues. They know what quality they need to get that combination to make their cues above the rest.
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Piercyexclusive said:
I have in the past been buying phenolic from many suppliers to use for cues and I have quit a stock of it.

one day I had a machinist guy come by my house to check out a cue for sale. when he came it he saw that I had some phenolic piled up. he then asked me if they were for sale. I said sure what do you need. he bought about 3/4 of what I had. then he came back just today cause he patiently waited till I was out of the hospital and told me the following.

the phenolic I had bought were low grade phenolic.
the iso was about 75-85 percent.
I asked him what that meant.
he then proceeded to explain that phenolic with that grade is mainly used for electrical purposes and that that sometimes anything less than 80 has bubbles and or defects.
he then gave me a piece that had an iso of 97 percent. and let me tell you the difference is noticeable. I installed one on a cue for test purposes and hit with it and the hit was much different from those I have been using. So anyways no more buying phenolic from most major suppliers for cues for me.
I will be buying from a company that makes bearing for nasa from now on the iso they have are 97 and above. might be a little more expensive but I think the players will like that more.
My intentions are not to start a fight with anyone just a little information I found and would like to share it with people.
to me ISO grading is now something I will consider when installing phenolic to my cue.

Marshall Piercy
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Marshall, I think you need to read this website to truly understand what ISO stands for:

http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=25124

ISO = International Organization For Standardization

Now how that applies to cue making I don't know, also what does conductivity have to do with the purpose we use Phenolic for, maybe I am missing something important, please take the time to explain this subject in more detail.

Thanks
 
manwon said:
Marshall, I think you need to read this website to truly understand what ISO stands for:

http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=25124

ISO = International Organization For Standardization

Now how that applies to cue making I don't know, also what does conductivity have to do with the purpose we use Phenolic for, maybe I am missing something important, please take the time to explain this subject in more detail.

Thanks
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I'm no cue maker but I do dabble in machine work, and I have a plumbing business. I was having a friend build me a cue and I gave him a piece of Corian to use I had saved from cutting out a sink hole......it was 1/2" thick by 22"wx25"d. He made my ferrules out of that white Corian and to this day it felt as close to real Ivory as I could find.

If you guys are loooking for a different kind of material to try out.....give Corian a shot. It machines like butter, comes in different colors, won't melt when burnishing unless you go nuts with it, and polishes like glass.....not to mention it is basically free if you know a plumber or counter top guy.


sorry to hijack, but thought it might be good conversation for this thread.


G.
 
I've always though that all phenolics were the same, so it puzzled me whenever I would see a broken phenolic joint collar. Now I understand how that can happen. Thanks, Marshall.

Roger
 
Piercyexclusive said:
the phenolic I had bought were low grade phenolic.
the iso was about 75-85 percent.
I asked him what that meant.
he then proceeded to explain that phenolic with that grade is mainly used for electrical purposes and that that sometimes anything less than 80 has bubbles and or defects.


Marshall Piercy
Click to expand...

Where did you get the old ones from ?
LE's or CE's phenolics ?

Those which are not used for electrical insulators, what are they used for?
Still LE phenolics , I would assume.
Thanks.
 
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