This thread should be a reminder that your judged by the friends you keep. Both these guys are friends because their behavior is so similar. They can commiserate with each other because they think and behave in the same manner. This is also why I have stopped playing for money. Recently I had an experience with a guy I used to shoot with regularly. We played two cheap sets (on his insistance) he lost both the last one on the hill. Since then I have seen him several times asked him to play and he has declined. Sadly his ego must be broken and I have lost a friend to shoot pool with over a paltry sum of money. I play leagues and some tournaments but mostly I play for enjoyment and could care less about wins and losses..