SPF Poll

I worked with an SPF instructor and was

  • very satisfied

    Votes: 48 34.0%
  • satisfied

    Votes: 14 9.9%
  • unsatisfied

    Votes: 7 5.0%
  • very unsatisfied

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Have not worked with SPF instructor

    Votes: 71 50.4%

  • Total voters
    141
  • Poll closed .
Sam...Let's not go there again. Nobody is saying SPF is the only way to improve. If it works for you...great. If not, perhaps another way of learning will work better. FTR, in your earlier post, where you mentioned, that after a month, you were playing better, and noticed that the things I showed you, were now a part of your process...that's the whole point. You USE SPF to get to the point where you don't think about it anymore. It's really more about learning about YOURSELF, and how to create a process (mental & physical), that you can learn to do every time, the same way, without thinking (just like the pros do). I am not saying the pros use SPF...I'm saying each of them have their own "process", that they do the same way, each time they stand down on the table. Think BEFORE shooting...Shoot WITHOUT thinking! I'm glad you're playing better, regardless of what helped you!

Anyone who has worked with any of us (Randyg, Pooltcher, Denny S, Stan Shuffet, myself, or many others), knows that we teach our students to take the information for what it is...information. Use what you like, and/or what works for you...and don't worry about the rest. Our most successful students seem to incorporate much of what we teach them.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

My thoughts exactly


:cool:
 
After 4,000 views and many comments that were inflammatory it seems only fair to learn how players who know SPF evaluate their methods. Please vote once and honestly. Names are not shown in the poll so it is somewhat anonymous. SPF instructors should not vote in this poll. My bet is that there are many satisfied consumers.

What is 'SPF'?
 
SPF stands for Set, Pause, Finish and is a phrase that encapsulates an approach to the pool stroke. It was developed by Randy Goettlicher, Scot Lee and others (?) to teach the fundamentals of stroke mechanics. There are many instructors (hundreds?) trained in the approach and thousands (?) of students who have attended their classes.

Classes include introductory lectures, a video analysis of the student's pool stroke, assigned exercises, and a follow up individual video analysis. The student is given a set of practice routines to use at home known as "Mother Drills" that will train and reinforce the principles learned. Class sizes vary from individual instruction to about 15 or so students. In the large group I attended the primary instructor (RandyG) was assisted by up to four assistant instructors during the three day "Pool School."

Here is a link to RandyG's web site http://www.poolschool.com/. From what I understand he and others offer "Pool Schools" at various locations around the country. Several SPF Instructors post on this forum and often have "SPF" somewhere in their signature.
 
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the Mother Drills are the nuts... but if you don't do them you won't improve

this post seems to imply that SPF is the only way to improve.

that's not exactly what I meant...

I'm saying that a lesson with a good instructor alone does not guarantee improvement.

you have to train your body to perform at a higher level... regardless of the coach..

If you seek out say... Joe Tucker to improve some facet of your game.. after seeing him he recommends you do "X" drill for a few weeks to ingrain the right way to accomplish your goal..

If you never do your "homework" and still have problems with that part of your game. that's your fault not the coaches.
 
that's not exactly what I meant...

I'm saying that a lesson with a good instructor alone does not guarantee improvement.

you have to train your body to perform at a higher level... regardless of the coach..

If you seek out say... Joe Tucker to improve some facet of your game.. after seeing him he recommends you do "X" drill for a few weeks to ingrain the right way to accomplish your goal..

If you never do your "homework" and still have problems with that part of your game. that's your fault not the coaches.

i do my homework all the time. not so much these days but when i'm not busy with life i play 4-5 hours a day 3-5 days a week. from the dvd i got from scott of our lesson together my fundamentals look pretty solid (few kinks i need to work out). of course there wasn't any pressure so i didn't do any of the bad habits i sometimes do when i'm playing for something.

i put my work in man. don't sweat me just because i wasn't 100% into something.
 
i do my homework all the time. not so much these days but when i'm not busy with life i play 4-5 hours a day 3-5 days a week. from the dvd i got from scott of our lesson together my fundamentals look pretty solid (few kinks i need to work out). of course there wasn't any pressure so i didn't do any of the bad habits i sometimes do when i'm playing for something.

i put my work in man. don't sweat me just because i wasn't 100% into something.

Not sweating you at all.... I was speaking in general ..not you personally
 
SPF is nothing more than a teaching tool for the developement of good stroke mechanics, and a repeatable prestroke routine. The idea being that a sound repeatable stroke breeds consistency at the table. Being consistent allows one to play at their best (whatever that might be) for longer periods of time.

I don't think that anyone who has integrated this training into their game is running off a mental checklist when they are shooting. If you know the principles and you are out of stroke, they become a method to identify and address whatever flaws (if any) in your stroke are causing the problem. Half of fixing a problem is learning how to identify it.

Using the concepts in the lesson provides a valuable tool to maintain and improve your game, as well as a way to figure out what is wrong with it.


:cool:
 
SPF stands for Set, Pause, Finish and is a phrase that encapsulates an approach to the pool stroke. It was developed by Randy Goettlicher, Scot Lee and others (?) to teach the fundamentals of stroke mechanics. There are many instructors (hundreds?) trained in the approach and thousands (?) of students who have attended their classes.

Classes include introductory lectures, a video analysis of the student's pool stroke, assigned exercises, and a follow up individual video analysis. The student is given a set of practice routines to use at home known as "Mother Drills" that will train and reinforce the principles learned. Class sizes vary from individual instruction to about 15 or so students. In the large group I attended the primary instructor (RandyG) was assisted by up to four assistant instructors during the three day "Pool School."

Here is a link to RandyG's web site http://www.poolschool.com/. From what I understand he and others offer "Pool Schools" at various locations around the country. Several SPF Instructors post on this forum and often have "SPF" somewhere in their signature.

www.poolschool.info
 
DelaWho...Brilliant, succinct, and exactly correct...especially the last part!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

SPF is nothing more than a teaching tool for the developement of good stroke mechanics, and a repeatable prestroke routine. The idea being that a sound repeatable stroke breeds consistency at the table. Being consistent allows one to play at their best (whatever that might be) for longer periods of time.

I don't think that anyone who has integrated this training into their game is running off a mental checklist when they are shooting. If you know the principles and you are out of stroke, they become a method to identify and address whatever flaws (if any) in your stroke are causing the problem. Half of fixing a problem is learning how to identify it.

Using the concepts in the lesson provides a valuable tool to maintain and improve your game, as well as a way to figure out what is wrong with it.


:cool:
 
Pre-SPF Stroke

Well, I believe my stroke fundamentals come from a pre-SPF timeframe.
S = Set As in get your positions set?
P = Pause on the backswing?
F = Finish through to natural stop regardless of speed?

Well, I can say that Scott's lessons improved my game significantly about 15 years ago. Basically moved me from bottom 5 players in city VNEA league to top 5. Funny thing is I don't remember SPF from that as an acronym.

At that time it was
1) Approach along aiming line
2) vigorous long smooth strokes to loosen stroke muscles
3) Slow smooth stroke
4) Pause at cue ball to confirm aim and hit point on cue ball
5) Draw back slow, then increase speed forward with slow acceleration. Basicall don't tense muscles going forward and jerk the elbow around. Not really a pause.
6) Increase speed to strike through cue ball at correct speed
7) Follow through to a natural stop point (minimal elbow drop)

Probably the same thing, but not called SPF. I think if we watch pool players, they do not pause for a time period, but they do change from back to forward very smoothly. Snooker players in general do tend to pause for a count.

I can't really say if I love SPF, but Scott Lee who is recognized as an SPF instructor really helped my stroke.
 
Just an observation. So far, 87% of those who have worked with an SPF instructor are satisfied or very satisfied. And almost half of the respondants haven't tried working with one.

I hope some of those will consider the possibilities, based on the experience of those who have been to one of our classes.

Steve
 
Just an observation. So far, 87% of those who have worked with an SPF instructor are satisfied or very satisfied. And almost half of the respondants haven't tried working with one.

I hope some of those will consider the possibilities, based on the experience of those who have been to one of our classes.

Steve

Hi Steve,

What I do not understand is the one poster that was very unsatisfied. I just can't figueroa it out...
 
S = Self Knowledge
P = Practice
F = Fine tune

Benefits of SPF instruction depend on:
What you take from it and put into your tool kit
and
What you do with it subsequently.

Just like any other instruction that provides useful accurate information.

People who fixate on "Set Pause Finish" terminology miss the point of the exercise - to examine the stroke and determine how to improve it.

The improvement comes later, after lots of practice - Those Mother Drills

Most students, me included, are satisfied.
 
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Hi Steve,

What I do not understand is the one poster that was very unsatisfied. I just can't figueroa it out...

Joe:

You warned poolplayer2093 against making "inflamatory" remarks. I don't think there is much doubt that the remark from Quesports is inflamatory. Don't you think that poster deserves the same warning?

Roger
 
Just an observation. So far, 87% of those who have worked with an SPF instructor are satisfied or very satisfied. And almost half of the respondants haven't tried working with one.

I hope some of those will consider the possibilities, based on the experience of those who have been to one of our classes.

Steve

Steve:

It's actually 84%, not 87% (at the time of this post it was 29 very satisfied, 8 satisfied, 6 unsatisfied, and 1 very unsatisfied). Either way, the percentage might not sound too bad on the surface, but I just went back through all of my student feedback forms for the past ten years and my "very satisfied" rate is 99%, and my "satisfied" rate is 1% (zero "unsatisfied"). I only offer that as a comparison, not to be inflamatory.

Roger
 
Steve:

It's actually 84%, not 87% (at the time of this post it was 29 very satisfied, 8 satisfied, 6 unsatisfied, and 1 very unsatisfied). Either way, the percentage might not sound too bad on the surface, but I just went back through all of my student feedback forms for the past ten years and my "very satisfied" rate is 99%, and my "satisfied" rate is 1% (zero "unsatisfied"). I only offer that as a comparison, not to be inflamatory.

Roger

My personal feedback forms reflect similar numbers to yours. 97% very satisfied, 3% satisfied, and no unsatisfied responses. Most of my instruction is done one-on-one, so there is a lot of personal interaction that may contribute to a somewhat higher satisfaction rating.
Steve
 
Hi Steve,

What I do not understand is the one poster that was very unsatisfied. I just can't figueroa it out...

There are several possibilities. Maybe the poster went into the class with unrealistic expectations which weren't met. Pool school isn't a magic wand. It's a road map to improvement, but only if the student follows the map. And occasionally, I have found some people who are more interested in challenging everything rather than being open minded. If you are resistant to any change, or think your way is better, you really aren't going to enjoy the learning experience.

As for this particular unhappy student, we may never know the reasons.

Steve
 
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