Strangest break I've ever seen

dquarasr

dquarasr

Registered
This happened last night in USAPL league.

At the break, the CB jumped and started to fly off the table. For whatever reason, it stopped - and stayed - on the cloth portion of the rail.

I shoulda taken a picture.

Long story short, after much debate, it was concluded that it was not a scratch. The "cloth" extends to the rails, therefore, the CB was considered still on the table. The next shot had to be taken with the CB up on the rail, elevated above the slate.

I am pretty sure that if I were to spend the rest of my waking hours in a pool hall that I will never see that again.
 
It's actually a foul. The ball left the table bed which is considered the playing surface.
 
It's a foul. I've been playing 50+ years and I've seen it happen at most 3 or 4 times. I've also seen the CB jump up on the rail & go down the rail and back onto the table.
 
Yup, foul. WPA (world-standardized) rules:

6.1 Cue Ball Scratch or off the Table

If the cue ball is pocketed or driven off the table, the shot is a foul. See 8.3 Ball Pocketed and 8.5 Driven off the Table.

8.5 Driven off the Table

A ball is considered driven off the table if it comes to rest other than on the playing surface but is not pocketed. A ball is also considered driven off the table if it would have been driven off the table except for striking an object such as a light fixture, piece of chalk or a player which causes it to return to the table.

A ball that contacts the top of the rail is not considered to have been driven off the table if it returns to the playing surface or enters a pocket.
 
dquarasr said:
This happened last night in USAPL league.

At the break, the CB jumped and started to fly off the table. For whatever reason, it stopped - and stayed - on the cloth portion of the rail.

I shoulda taken a picture.

Long story short, after much debate, it was concluded that it was not a scratch. The "cloth" extends to the rails, therefore, the CB was considered still on the table. The next shot had to be taken with the CB up on the rail, elevated above the slate.

I am pretty sure that if I were to spend the rest of my waking hours in a pool hall that I will never see that again.
Click to expand...

Whoever concluded that is an idiot and doesn't know pocket billiards, it's a foul, ball in hand
 
AtLarge said:
Yup, foul. WPA (world-standardized) rules:

6.1 Cue Ball Scratch or off the Table

If the cue ball is pocketed or driven off the table, the shot is a foul. See 8.3 Ball Pocketed and 8.5 Driven off the Table.

8.5 Driven off the Table

A ball is considered driven off the table if it comes to rest other than on the playing surface but is not pocketed. A ball is also considered driven off the table if it would have been driven off the table except for striking an object such as a light fixture, piece of chalk or a player which causes it to return to the table.

A ball that contacts the top of the rail is not considered to have been driven off the table if it returns to the playing surface or enters a pocket.
Click to expand...

"Playing surface" was the center of the debate. The conclusion, voiced by many of those offering an opinion, was that since the cushions are covered in the same material as the slate, are considered part of the "playing surface".

I would have thought that only the slate itself is the surface, but having no dog in the fight (it was between two other teams) and being fairly new to league, I stayed out of it. A smart move, I'm sure.
 
Yep.... foul. No one could be expected to take the next shot from on top of the rail. If it rolled down the rail and came back onto slate, and didnt hit a foreign object, then no foul.
 
dquarasr said:
This happened last night in USAPL league.

At the break, the CB jumped and started to fly off the table. For whatever reason, it stopped - and stayed - on the cloth portion of the rail.

I shoulda taken a picture.

Long story short, after much debate, it was concluded that it was not a scratch. The "cloth" extends to the rails, therefore, the CB was considered still on the table. The next shot had to be taken with the CB up on the rail, elevated above the slate.

I am pretty sure that if I were to spend the rest of my waking hours in a pool hall that I will never see that again.
Click to expand...
On Facebook, it’s probably every month or two that someone will show a photo of this happening. It happens. It’s a foul .
 
Ghosst said:
It's actually a foul. The ball left the table bed which is considered the playing surface.
Click to expand...

And it stayed off the table bed. If it came back without hitting non table parts (chalk, person, light, etc.), it would be fine.
 
I think it is freakin awesome that someone actually took the next shot from up on the rail. This is a shot I’ve practiced a bit oddly enough, just messing around.

In a real match or tournament I’d be all over the foul but a regular league night I’d just watch the cool shot.
 
dquarasr said:
"Playing surface" was the center of the debate. The conclusion, voiced by many of those offering an opinion, was that since the cushions are covered in the same material as the slate, are considered part of the "playing surface".

I would have thought that only the slate itself is the surface, but having no dog in the fight (it was between two other teams) and being fairly new to league, I stayed out of it. A smart move, I'm sure.
Click to expand...

They’d be wrong. Lots of referees and rules writers on this site. The top of the cushion, green or not, is not part of the playing surface by any legitimate rules set.

Maybe I need to add this to the Cornerman Bar Rules.
 
A bit of an oddity

Most rules state that if the cue ball touches anything but the playing surface it Is a foul but they also make exceptions for the rails. Doesn't really make sense, consistency should demand that if the ball gets on top of the rail it is a foul.

I don't think there is any set of rules that says the shot is legal if a ball stays on a rail or cushion. In bar rooms I have made people shoot from up there. I also saw a ball hit very hard in a side pocket go under the table and pop out the other side pocket and rest on the playing surface. It was ruled a miss, no foul. When I got the chance a few days later I did the same thing with a cue ball when I pocketed an object ball. The cue ball popped up on the playing surface, I pointed out that the rules were we played the balls as they laid. I was wrong and knew it. I made the shot just to stir the pot!

Hu
 
I've seen a break shot where the cue ball jumped up on the rail by the side pocket and rolled along the rail to the corner pocket and then fell back onto the playing surface. I was watching the shot and when asked what the call was I said "good shot, continue play."
 
jay helfert said:
I've seen a break shot where the cue ball jumped up on the rail by the side pocket and rolled along the rail to the corner pocket and then fell back onto the playing surface. I was watching the shot and when asked what the call was I said "good shot, continue play."
Click to expand...
At carom billiards the rule is that if the ball hits wood, it is a foul. It has to stay on the green (or blue). And at carom the rule used to be that if you knocked a ball off the table, it was not a foul and you might still score. That was also the rule at pool at one time. Ball onto the floor is now a foul at all disciplines.
 
Bob Jewett said:
At carom billiards the rule is that if the ball hits wood, it is a foul. It has to stay on the green (or blue). And at carom the rule used to be that if you knocked a ball off the table, it was not a foul and you might still score. That was also the rule at pool at one time. Ball onto the floor is now a foul at all disciplines.
Click to expand...

This cue ball actually rolled along the seem between the cloth and the rail, then hit the pocket liner and fell back onto the playing surface. I would make the same call if it was an object ball.
 
jay helfert said:
I've seen a break shot where the cue ball jumped up on the rail by the side pocket and rolled along the rail to the corner pocket and then fell back onto the playing surface. I was watching the shot and when asked what the call was I said "good shot, continue play."
Click to expand...

I've seen a break shot where the cue ball jumped straight up off the head ball and landed inside the light fixture because it pushed the diffusion screen out of the way on the way up... obviously a foul because it never came back to the table bed.
 
a few stories

Two stories:

1) I was playing $20 9 ball and made the 9 on the break but the cue stopped on top of the rail. We had to get the room owner to make the call. He called it good :smile:

2) I was playing one pocket against a guy by the name of Gary Pinkowski. I was down a few racks but finally had him in deep trouble. I probably had ten balls within 10 inches of my pocket. Finally he was able to see them and had no choice but to try blasting as many as he could out of the area. He hit it like a break shot with force follow (trying to get the cue ball to go through the stack and stick by my hole. So the cue ball jumps up in the air, bounces on the rail a few times and drops BEHIND all the balls he didn't move out. In the meantime though, he shit one in his pocket. Then from shooting out of the jaws of my pocket, he ran out. I should have stiffed him.
 
fjk said:
Two stories:

1) I was playing $20 9 ball and made the 9 on the break but the cue stopped on top of the rail. We had to get the room owner to make the call. He called it good :smile:

2) I was playing one pocket against a guy by the name of Gary Pinkowski. I was down a few racks but finally had him in deep trouble. I probably had ten balls within 10 inches of my pocket. Finally he was able to see them and had no choice but to try blasting as many as he could out of the area. He hit it like a break shot with force follow (trying to get the cue ball to go through the stack and stick by my hole. So the cue ball jumps up in the air, bounces on the rail a few times and drops BEHIND all the balls he didn't move out. In the meantime though, he shit one in his pocket. Then from shooting out of the jaws of my pocket, he ran out. I should have stiffed him.
Click to expand...

A good one for "Power One Pocket Volume 3" :thumbup:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top