stroking straight question

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I think we can all agree that first you have to point yourself in the right direction.
That would be nice, but I don't know if it's possible. I think we learn how to do that and how to aim at the same time - they complement each other. In fact, I don't think they're really entirely different things.

pj
chgo
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson;6424857I think we learn how to do that and how to aim at the same time - they complement each other. In fact said:
I wholly agree with this sentiment....

Being that as it may I’ve found it strange for years to strafe into our shotline and stance, walking it in just is common sense to find and stay on that correct line.

-Greyghost


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That would be nice, but I don't know if it's possible. I think we learn how to do that and how to aim at the same time - they complement each other. In fact, I don't think they're really entirely different things.

pj
chgo

I totally agree. Aiming and aligning do go together. I was addressing alignment vs. stroking as to priorities in learning. Learning how to align/aim properly should come first.

As to the distinction between aiming and aligning, I imagine they could be considered the same thing in some circles. I've always thought of aiming as a visual process and aligning as a physical one. But I don't consider stroking to be part of either the aiming or aligning process --- at least, not the final stroke that executes the shot.
 
Last edited:

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I totally agree. Aiming and aligning do go together. I was addressing alignment vs. stroking as to priorities in learning. Learning how to align/aim properly should come first.

As to the distinction between aiming and aligning, I imagine they could be considered the same thing in some circles. I've always thought of aiming as a visual process and aligning as a physical one. But I don't consider stroking to be part of either the aiming or aligning process --- at least, not the final stroke that executes the shot.
I agree about the shot stroke, but for me practice stroking is part of both the aligning and aiming process. Getting my stance right includes ensuring my stroke is moving straight along my line of sight - my aim isn't reliable until then, so I think of it as part of the aiming process.

pj
chgo
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree about the shot stroke, but for me practice stroking is part of both the aligning and aiming process. Getting my stance right includes ensuring my stroke is moving straight along my line of sight - my aim isn't reliable until then, so I think of it as part of the aiming process.

pj
chgo

You know...I was thinking about the distinction between practice stroking and the final execution stroke. When we practice stroke, are we really practicing the final stroke or are we just aiming, aligning and waggling? I think it's more part of the aiming process than the stroking process.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I wholly agree with this sentiment....

Being that as it may I’ve found it strange for years to strafe into our shotline and stance, walking it in just is common sense to find and stay on that correct line.

-Greyghost


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I agree about walking it in, which is what I teach, but it's not so straightforward. After all, our head is in the center of our body.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
You know...I was thinking about the distinction between practice stroking and the final execution stroke. When we practice stroke, are we really practicing the final stroke or are we just aiming, aligning and waggling? I think it's more part of the aiming process than the stroking process.
Yes, it's an essential part of the aiming process for me - but it's also "rehearsals" for the shot stroke, which I also want to ensure is exactly aligned. I suppose the degree it's one vs. the other depends on the player. I look forward to the day when my stroke will be automatically aligned and true - but when (if) that day comes I hope it doesn't make me careless about checking it as part of my shot routine.

pj
chgo
 

Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Actually, no, your stroke will not "straighten out" simply from a better aim and alignment. It takes physical and mental training. Like I said, video analysis is the key. If you don't believe that, then good luck with your efforts. A lesson with the right instructor would take all the anxiety and long term problems out of your process.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

in my opinion aiming is more important,when you start aiming correctly your stroke starts straightening out automatically unless you have an extreme chicken wing or a severe elbow drop that you cannot control..at least that's my experience.
 

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Actually, no, your stroke will not "straighten out" simply from a better aim and alignment. It takes physical and mental training. Like I said, video analysis is the key. If you don't believe that, then good luck with your efforts. A lesson with the right instructor would take all the anxiety and long term problems out of your process.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
well for me i had two main issues,the first was my shoulders were a bit square causing a chicken wing and second was an aiming issue,my cue was placed slightly across the line of aim when down on most shots or i was aiming a hair to the left or right of where i was supposed to.(probably because my head was moving offline when getting down on the shot).the chicken wing would steer the cue slightly sideways on practice strokes/delivery and when i corrected the chicken wing,i still had the aim/cue alignment issue causing the cue to steer sideways once again.it was like a vicious circle.but when i started addressing both variables at the same time,my stroke started straightening out.so far it has been working but i will post here if i encounter more problems.

but someone else could have even more problems like sighting/dominant eye issues or stroke issues like jumping up on the shot,tightening the grip etc and maybe someone could be steering the cue for such a long time that the hitch in the stroke has been ingrained even when removing all the variables and needs practice of physical training to fix.or if someone is a complete beginner then of course he will not have a straight stroke if he just fixes aim and alignment.
 
Last edited:

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
well for me i had two main issues,the first was my shoulders were a bit square causing a chicken wing and second was an aiming issue,my cue was placed slightly across the line of aim when down on most shots or i was aiming a hair to the left or right of where i was supposed to.(probably because my head was moving offline when getting down on the shot).the chicken wing would steer the cue slightly sideways on practice strokes/delivery and when i corrected the chicken wing,i still had the aim/cue alignment issue causing the cue to steer sideways once again.it was like a vicious circle.but when i started addressing both variables at the same time,my stroke started straightening out.so far it has been working but i will post here if i encounter more problems.

but someone else could have even more problems like sighting/dominant eye issues or stroke issues like jumping up on the shot,tightening the grip etc and maybe someone could be steering the cue for such a long time that the hitch in the stroke has been ingrained even when removing all the variables and needs practice of physical training to fix.or if someone is a complete beginner then of course he will not have a straight stroke if he just fixes aim and alignment.

Whether or not a player's stroke will straighten out once their alignment is corrected depends on how embedded their stroke compensations were due to their faulty alignment.

When your alignment is off, you will somehow compensate with your stroke, often by twisting or steering or turning your arm inside your torso and restricting your arm swing. Those things can become a habit that could take time to break.
 

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Whether or not a player's stroke will straighten out once their alignment is corrected depends on how embedded their stroke compensations were due to their faulty alignment.

When your alignment is off, you will somehow compensate with your stroke, often by twisting or steering or turning your arm inside your torso and restricting your arm swing. Those things can become a habit that could take time to break.

yes,i am a bit surprised that my stroke started straightening out so quickly after having a twist in the stroke for years but then again for the last 3 years i have been changing things in my technique constantly,(and trying out same stuff that i tried in the past and thought that didn't work but tried them again & again just to make sure) that i sometimes unknowingly fixed the problem and was playing good for short periods of time but because i didn't fully understand all the variables that were causing the problem i was slipping back into the faulty aim/alignment.the point i'm trying to make is that my body was familiar with the correct position and arm movement because i was already doing it in the past for short periods of time so maybe that is the reason that my stroke started straightening out so quickly.but now in tournament matches against other opponents it is very easy to slip back into the past aiming/alignment mistakes because the focus is mostly on winning the game so maybe i should stop playing tournaments for a while and focus on ingraining the new fundamentals in practice.
 

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
also i'm wondering,let's say that your main issue is that you can't place the cue on the line of aim consistently.i would say that this problem mostly depends on your visual perception.so how exactly is an instructor going to fix this?there isn't a quick fix and i think to some degree it's either 'you have it or you don't'.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
also i'm wondering,let's say that your main issue is that you can't place the cue on the line of aim consistently.i would say that this problem mostly depends on your visual perception.so how exactly is an instructor going to fix this?there isn't a quick fix and i think to some degree it's either 'you have it or you don't'.
Do you mean...

"How can I determine the head position and eye alignment necessary for me to have the best aiming accuracy and consistency?"

pj
chgo
 

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They're not the same?

pj
chgo

no i don't think they are.one can have the cue under his correct vision center when down on the shot but the cue placed slightly across the line of the shot and not on it.now the correct head alignment in relation to the shot line when the player is getting down on the shot from the standing position does increase the chances of placing the cue on the correct line but i think it's mostly has to do with the visual perception of the player and some players will struggle even if their vision center alignment is correct from the standing position all the way when down on the shot.like i said i think to some degree either a player has this skill or he doesn't.
 
Last edited:

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
also i'm wondering,let's say that your main issue is that you can't place the cue on the line of aim consistently.i would say that this problem mostly depends on your visual perception.so how exactly is an instructor going to fix this?there isn't a quick fix and i think to some degree it's either 'you have it or you don't'.

Yes, some players seem to just fall into it and others have to work harder. But some of the world's greatest sports achievers claimed they had to work harder than their peers to do what seems to come naturally to others, so it's definitely doable.

To answer your question, it depends on why you wouldn't be putting your cue on the line of aim consistently. You have to get to the root of the cause before making any decisions on how to address the issue. A good instructor would be able to help you figure out why you're doing that. There are a lot more possible reasons than you may think.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...one can have the cue under his correct vision center when down on the shot but the cue placed slightly across the line of the shot and not on it.
I think you're misinterpreting the meaning of "vision center" - its definition includes "seeing a straight shot as straight". In other words, if the cue looks straight but isn't, then you haven't found your vision center. The techniques for finding your vision center specifically take that into account.

pj
chgo
 

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think you're misinterpreting the meaning of "vision center" - its definition includes "seeing a straight shot as straight". In other words, if the cue looks straight but isn't, then you haven't found your vision center. The techniques for finding your vision center specifically take that into account.

pj
chgo
no,in my case i was seeing the cue slightly angled on most shots but because i couldn't find what was causing it,i kept shooting with that flaw and was twisting the wrist to correct it.
 
Top