Stunning news: FREE IPT Challenge Match: Johnny Archer vs. Earl Strickland

[SpiderWebComm]

At this juncture, let's do a little roll call for those who posted on this thread.

All those who competed in an IPT tournament, signify by saying "aye."

All those who have never competed in an IPT tournament, signify by saying "nay."

I would hasten to guess that the majority of posters on this thread have never competed in an IPT tournament.

I maintain that the majority of IPT competitors, those who actually did compete in an IPT tournament, are hopeful that the IPT will return next year with a new platform.

JAM

Nay, but you can take all the checks Keither made in the IPT and multiply it by a factor and that's where I got sent down the river by. I ALLLMOST cashed Keith's check for him in Reno (near the blackjack tables w/ Scotty Townsend). If I had, I'd be out the ton I am plus Keith's 5. Therefore, I feel more empowered to bash the IPT since I'm personally out tons and you're personally not out a penny. I'd rather see all american pros play overseas and play for honest TD's than someone who will rob them blind at the next availability.

We're on opposite ends of the spectrum for the reasons you mentioned in your last post. I'm in the hole because of lies and deceit and you're not because you're not a player (as you mentioned) and you weren't a business partner of them.

This discussion is a moot point because the IPT isn't going anywhere, ever. Better start loving the guys like Sullivan, Griffin, Hopkins, Janis and others putting out tourneys who pay the players. The IPT is the way of the Dodo bird.

 

[JAM]

Nay, but you can take all the checks Keither made in the IPT and multiply it by a factor and that's where I got sent down the river by. I ALMOST cashed Keith's check for him in Reno (near the blackjack tables w/ Scotty Townsend). If I had, I'd be out the ton I am plus Keith's 5.

Actually, Keith's 5 is 70-something percent paid to date. A new check is being issued either this week or next week for the next installment, and that will bring it up to about 80-something percent.

Since I did not go to Reno, I did not know what was going on with the checks. I will say that I have NEVER been one to enjoy pool events in the casino environment, and if you were there, then you know why I feel this way.

Therefore, I feel more empowered to bash the IPT since I'm personally out tons and you're personally not out a penny.

Let me just say this to you, Spider. I'm out plenty when it comes to pool, financially speaking. I used to attend two, three, and four tournaments every single month for several years. This American tournament trail is not fruitful to most professional caliber-players, the majority of whom are unsponsored. To attend week-long events, it costs us about $2,000 to $2,500. The tournament payouts today don't afford one an opportunity to break even, unless you win, place, or show.

When we used to attend the DCC and the U.S. Open, I had a blast. It was a whole lot of fun. I tend to look at these events as a pool vacation today. Keith came in third place one year at the Open, $10,000. Believe me, we were stuck more than that from the events we attended the previous three months.

I'd rather see all american pros play overseas and play for honest TD's than someone who will rob them blind at the next availability.

Not me. I desire for professional pool to grow in America. The existing lot of professional American players is dwindling. If they have to travel overseas to compete, there were eventually be only a dozen or so American pros who will do so, IMHO. When this happens, American professional pool loses.

We're on opposite ends of the spectrum for the reasons you mentioned in your last post. I'm in the hole because of lies and deceit and you're not because you're not a player (as you mentioned) and you weren't a business partner of them.

This discussion is a moot point because the IPT isn't going anywhere, ever. Better start loving the guys like Sullivan, Griffin, Janis and others putting out tourneys who pay the players. The IPT is the way of the Dodo bird.

I am very appreciative of Greg Sullivan, Chad/JCIN (The Action Report), Mark Griffin, Mike Janis, Mike Zuglan, Barry Behrman, the Romanos, all regional tour directors, et al. If it weren't for these guys, American pool would definitely be dead in the water.

I am also thankful to have AzBilliards as a place where we can voice our opinions.

Professional pool was in a bad way before the IPT. It is still in a bad way, except a few IPT players like Dave Matlock, as an example, got enough monies to put a down payment on a house. Thorsten and Efren must be enjoying the monies they won for their fine performances at the IPT tournaments they won.

I hope that you receive compensation for all of your investment in the IPT. The fact that payments are still coming forth to the players is a positive. I understand your feelings on the topic. I may not be stuck monies from the IPT, but I have suffered some hardships in other areas as it pertains to American professional pool, sacrificing my time into it which did affect my business. Thankfully, today, after taking a break from this wonderful American tournament trail, I am making my ends meet again. Pool was a money burner for me.

JAM

 

[Icon of Sin]

Maybe this is a way for them to come up with more money to pay the players. While I do not condone the actions of KEvin Trudeau in not paying the players fully right at the end of the tournaments, you have to understand that in business when someone starts a new company like Kevin Trudeau did, they often have financial plans well in advance including the amount of personal investment they are willing to put into it to try and succeed. If his business model required more advertisers buying airtime and that fell through, (i.e. making online gambling in the U.S.illegal making it highly unlikely that the main expected advertisers would advertise), then the business model has to be revamped. He has not shut down the website and it now appears that they are trying to change the business model in the light of unforeseeable changes, like that new U.S. law that was passed.

I know that many who were shooting down KT from before anything happened actually enjoyed that this happened the way that it did, and that is sad. Again, I am not defending KT at all and find it reprehensible that the necesary funds were not placed into escrow and the players payed immediately after the tournament. It is hard enough for the pool community to succeed in todays market and this only puts another black mark on the professional pool community. If it is, however, that they are trying to revamp their business model and finish paying off and possibly setting up plans for the continued existence of the IPT, then I say watch a great match between two awesome players and enjoy it, if it's free, then who cares who's organizing it?

If this can bring excitement and needed advertisers back into the fray, then it is possible, however unlikely, that the IPT may not die and that can only be a good thing IMO, so long that the same thing that has happened in the past does not occur again. Not expected, but possible.

You have way to much common sense to post here

Good post!

 

[TX Poolnut]

Does this mean that Bernie is coming back to AZB?

 

[vagabond]

What I am pointing out, though, is that the opinions expressed on this thread, the majority of them are from those who do not compete professionally. Whether the IPT sinks or swims will not affect their life one bit.

JAM

JAM,
It is a good poke at & a reminder to those who try to claim the first amendment right.
Some of the comments ( NOT by you )are analogus to Anglos determing what is good for Navajos/Appaches/chirokees etc and African Americans.
Pros can determine what is good for them.
On a different area( qualifications), it is like a guy who can`t balance his check book but uses his first amendment right to criticise the Reganamics.

 

[Blackjack]

At this juncture, let's do a little roll call for those who posted on this thread.

All those who competed in an IPT tournament, signify by saying "aye."

All those who have never competed in an IPT tournament, signify by saying "nay."

I would hasten to guess that the majority of posters on this thread have never competed in an IPT tournament.

I maintain that the majority of IPT competitors, those who actually did compete in an IPT tournament, are hopeful that the IPT will return next year with a new platform.

JAM

I don't think someone has to have competed in the IPT to be able to form an educated opinion on the subject.

As far as the IPT coming back, I know a lot of people that could really use the money right now. I know players that sit on both ends of the spectrum in supporting anything with Kevin's name on it. There are just as many supporters as there are people that want to choke the life out of him.

I have spoken about this "New IPT" extensively with Mike Sigel. It sounds like a great idea with great backing, reputable business partners, and of course, the opportunity for pool players to make a lot of money.

From what I have heard about this venture, the days of showing up and collecting your 5 grand is OVER. To get money, you'll have to win it. I like that idea a lot.

Also, the issue of savers will be addressed - so those players that enjoy profiting while diminishing the integrity of the sport (no need for a roll call, you all know who you are) when you get caught doing that, or if it is rumored that you are doing that - I hear you are in for a big surprise.

I really like the new ideas that I have heard, however... Kevin doesn't call me The Prophet of Doom for nothing...



I believe that Kevin should have renamed this venture and kept his name away from it completely. I believe that if he would have done that, he would have a better chance of succeeding with it. Right now, there is still too much controversy surrounding his name. He should have kept his name away from it and just allowed the source of the money to remain a mystery. When the venture becomes successful, then he could have crawled out of the shadows to let people know that this was his baby.

It's a great idea, although not an original idea. From what I have heard, Kevin has the resources to market it, record it, distribute it, and sell it. He has "unlimited" resources throughout the world to market this product on a level noone has seen before. The question then becomes this... is he marketing pool and the players, or is he merely marketing his own hype?

Just like before, only time will tell whether or not it will be successful. The way I see it from where I am sitting, KT is on the hill with ball in hand, its up to him to run it out. My money is on the guy in the chair.

 

[Mike Templeton]

At this juncture, let's do a little roll call for those who posted on this thread.

All those who competed in an IPT tournament, signify by saying "aye."

All those who have never competed in an IPT tournament, signify by saying "nay."

I would hasten to guess that the majority of posters on this thread have never competed in an IPT tournament.

I maintain that the majority of IPT competitors, those who actually did compete in an IPT tournament, are hopeful that the IPT will return next year with a new platform.

JAM

How many IPT tournaments have you competed in, Jam? It's pretty arrogant to think that just because we haven't competed in an IPT event that we can't gather an informed opinion.

Mike

 

[JAM]

I don't think someone has to have competed in the IPT to be able to form an educated opinion on the subject....

What I am pointing out, though, is that the opinions expressed on this thread, the majority of them are from those who do not compete professionally. Whether the IPT sinks or swims will not affect their life one bit.

...

JAM

 

[canwin]

He's already recorded it. Somebody has/is to have profited from that in some or alot of ways. canwin

 

[JAM]

How many IPT tournaments have you competed in, Jam? It's pretty arrogant to think that just because we haven't competed in an IPT event that we can't gather an informed opinion.

Mike

What I am pointing out, though, is that the opinions expressed on this thread, the majority of them are from those who do not compete professionally. Whether the IPT sinks or swims will not affect their life one bit.

...

JAM

 

[corvette1340]

Exactly. It is the tolerance of that shady sh!t that is the reason the game is dieing at a high level in this country.

Integrity is the key. I will never understand why many in the pool world seem to care very little about it. That is the really depressing thing about pool in this country. People lie, cheat and steal. Get caught, and everyone just goes "Guy's gotta eat" "Bad press is better than no press" and so on. It needs to change.

this post deserves more love. The fact that people let dumps, scams, etc.. etc.. slide is the main reason pool has had and will continue to have such a bad image. The "guy's gotta eat" thing is goddamn ridiculous. A lot of people have to eat, but they don't do it by stealing or cheating or scamming. As I have said before, if playing pool on the square is not paying the bills then get another job for godsake.

 

[Cardinal_Syn]

Strickland was not a huge draw at the Qlympics playing Shane VanBoening, what makes you think him playing here would be a huge draw in this match. Just curious.

-don

I was not aware that there wasn't a huge draw at the qlympics, I am really suprised actually. If the legendary Earl was ever in town I know I sure would watch.

 

[corvette1340]

At this juncture, let's do a little roll call for those who posted on this thread.

All those who competed in an IPT tournament, signify by saying "aye."

All those who have never competed in an IPT tournament, signify by saying "nay."

I would hasten to guess that the majority of posters on this thread have never competed in an IPT tournament.

I maintain that the majority of IPT competitors, those who actually did compete in an IPT tournament, are hopeful that the IPT will return next year with a new platform.

JAM

lol, no sh*t. I will agree with you here. The players would love for a full time tour to come around. The problem with this is that the same players do nothing to promote a sport that cannot attract the sponsorship necessary to sustain such a tour. Most of the people that played on the IPT get up at 3 in the afternoon and scuffle, which is fine if thats what you want. But, they have put and will continue to put themselves in the position of lap puppy until they stand up for something, mainly their own pride. KT basically dangled money at them and then pulled the plug, only to pay a pittance every few months because his team of lawyers advised him to in order to avoid further litigation. Now he is spinning the same yarn and just like all the fools that keep buying his books and miracle cures, the suckers are gravitating back with the promises of gold and rainbows.

 

[JAM]

...The players would love for a full time tour to come around. The problem with this is that the same players do nothing to promote a sport that cannot attract the sponsorship necessary to sustain such a tour. Most of the people that played on the IPT get up at 3 in the afternoon and scuffle, which is fine if thats what you want. But, they have put and will continue to put themselves in the position of lap puppy until they stand up for something, mainly their own pride....

The above-referenced is an opinion which I find stereotypes pool players as a whole.

In fact, it is opinions like this from the American pool culture which keeps pool stuck in the mud in the United States. It is not the pro players.

I know of MANY pro players who go to charity events, donate their time for free, as well as give out FREE items to fans. To suggest that pool players "do nothing to promote a sport" does not sit well with this reader.

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[9 ball]

Well said jam, tellin it like it is as always.

 

[ironman]

NOTHING is free in life! Don't say I didn't warn you.

Can you say that a little louder please??????

 

[corvette1340]

The above-referenced is an opinion which I find stereotypes pool players as a whole.

In fact, it is opinions like this from the American pool culture which keeps pool stuck in the mud in the United States. It is not the pro players.

I know of MANY pro players who go to charity events, donate their time for free, as well as give out FREE items to fans. To suggest that pool players "do nothing to promote a sport" does not sit well with this reader.

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

of course not all of the players are like this, I think I said most. Its the same old song and dance with you though Jam, you complain about the "american tourney trail" and how players dont make enough. The reason behind this is that pool doesn't draw spectators thereby limiting sponsorship. Instead of just complaining about it, why not try and do something. Contact a tourney promoter or perhaps promote one yourself that pays the players the kind of money you are hoping for. Get the players to form a union so they will all be on the same page. If my employer stopped paying me and then decided to pay me in 10% increments over a year then I for one would be pissed and never work for that entity again, but you are a staunch KT supporter for some reason or other and I just don't get it.

 

[CTYankee]

In fact, it is opinions like this from the American pool culture which keeps pool stuck in the mud in the United States. It is not the pro players.

Jam, do you see the only thing keeping pool from the main-stream the seedy image or are there other factors that add to it? Sorry to hijack the thread, but I am curious what the opinion of someone that has seen it first hand.

Thanks.

 

[JAM]

of course not all of the players are like this, I think I said most. Its the same old song and dance with you though Jam, you complain about the "american tourney trail" and how players dont make enough. The reason behind this is that pool doesn't draw spectators thereby limiting sponsorship. Instead of just complaining about it, why not try and do something. Contact a tourney promoter or perhaps promote one yourself that pays the players the kind of money you are hoping for.

You have no idea what I have contributed to pool in an effort to advance the sport. The above-referenced statement has absolutely no merit.

Most tourney promoters like me and mine for a variety of reasons, but I will not dignify your ignorance by providing an explanation as to why.

Get the players to form a union so they will all be on the same page. If my employer stopped paying me and then decided to pay me in 10% increments over a year then I for one would be pissed and never work for that entity again, but you are a staunch KT supporter for some reason or other and I just don't get it.

And you never will. You have your opinion, and I have mine.

JAM

 

[ironman]

If you think 15,000 people are gonna watch this LIVE I have a bridge for sale. Spider knows what he is talking about.

This is about driving traffic to their website. It is the one thing that will continue to generate revenue and new customer info that sponsors will pay for. My stance on the IPT has been pretty well documented here. I will let that horse rest in peace.

The thing that is interesting is the new NACPBA tour. The more I learn about it the more excited I am getting. There is a long way to go yet, but it is just possible there may be some light at the end of the tunnel that is not a multi-level marketing train. These sound like serious people with good motivation. Hopefully we will all know more soon.

IPT is dead, no amount of wishing or free matches is gonna change that.

Dead? Well, I'm just not sure. Money talks and when people like KT start throwing out big numbers, there are those who are gonna listen.

People are going to be more skeptical this time because as they say, "one only has one shot at a first impression". Kt has created his first impression and I really believe he could care less what anyone on the planet thinks of him or his products, just results, as in profits.

After his last IPT fiasco, I can't believe he would even walk down this path again.

If the players do get involve with him again, I hope they are at least smart enough to get together and get some kind of representation this time. Why in Gods name would one dare to trust this guy or Deno or Mike. When 100 players needed them, they were nowhere to be found. Why all the concern now?