SVB/Mika Game 20

[Island Drive]

Just finished watching that 40 minute bite, with Shane down 10-3.

Shanes at 9-10 and breaking.

This is the World Championships., the closest thing our sport has compared to the PGA Masters/Augusta.

Notice on the break, with that plastic/thingy/template....how its effect on the 6 ball, Entirely changes that game and very easily its outcome.

I'm not upset that it could of been the rolllllllllllllll that beat Mika, but it trashed that game in my opinion.

It's NOT good for the sport/ever to have a piece of plastic on the table, changing ball movements.

It's hard to believe they don't use a Good Wooden Rack.

 

[td873]

It's hard to believe they don't use a Good Wooden Rack.

They do in the later rounds. They don't have enough refs to rack all the prelim matches, so they elect to use a template so there are no racking disputes.

-td

 

[MattPoland]

If you keep the template on the table after the break and it messes up a ball path then it’s a shame.

During the break I don’t care at all. The last few inches of where each ball settles is random enough as it is. It’s not like you’re playing shape for each ball to settle in an exact position. It’s a roll of the dice. I’m fine letting the magic rack influence the outcome during the break (or not). Pool starts after that anyway.

 

[Poolmanis]

wtf.
How it is important? Most of tables roll off and changes outcome of games and sets.
Just get over it.
Tournaments and players choose what rules and equipment they use. That´s their choice and if you don´t like it it does not matter. World still turning around and games go on.

 

[Island Drive]

I heard that, but it's still not good way to represent the WPA.

 

[shinobi]

Just finished watching that 40 bite, with Shane down 10-3.

Shanes at 9-10 and breaking.

This is the World Championships., the closest thing our sport has compared to the PGA Masters/Augusta.

Notice on the break, with that plastic/thingy/template....how its effect on the 6 ball, Entirely changes that game and very easily its outcome.

I'm not upset that it could of been the rolllllllllllllll that beat Mika, but it trashed that game in my opinion.

It's NOT good for the sport/ever to have a piece of plastic on the table, changing ball movements.

It's hard to believe they don't use a Good Wooden Rack.

Everything has its pros and cons.

Use a template? Consistent racks, some people say too consistent/predictable. Template may interfere with a slow rolling ball.

Don't use a template? Inconsistent racks, some people say too inconsistent. May lead to golden breaks, or a 9-ball hovering over the corner for early 9s. This problem plagued some of the sets at the World Championships. A much worse problem than a template interfering with a slow rolling ball IMHO.

 

[sjm]

Well said, Bill!

Yes, I remember watching the match live and being upset when this happened. To Matchroom's credit, their plan is to lose the template once a sufficient number of refs are available. Emily Frazer has made her point of view clear that racks and neutral rackers must be used if tournaments are to give us the worthiest champions, and I, for one, couldn't agree more. From a production standpoint, just as you say, seeing the template on the table is not a good look for pool in a major championship and Matchroom recognizes it.

That said, the template still has an important place in pro pool. I am still of the opinion that use of the template (and perhaps even alternate break) is advisable in the many "rack your own" and "rack for opponent" events because they help neutralize the advantage customarily enjoyed by the countless rack mechanics.

Thankfully, in major tournament play, neutral rackers are, more and more, the norm today, so the game, at the most elite level, appears to have evolved past the era in which rack mechanics robbed the game of some of its integrity.

 

[NathanDetroit]

I do not spend much time looking at break stats, BUT, I will say I believe stats will all look better for paper rack sessions. An exception may be made if there was a large dead-money contingent.

 

[Tin Man]

I think it's a fair point to say they should strive to optimize the game conditions, but I think this is part of the game.

What's funny is that a triangle rack brings it's own problems. There was a match where the 9 ball was flying towards the pocket almost every time and they had to delay the match and switch tables because it wasn't racking correctly. There were other times when the ref slugged the breaker unintentionally. Which is worse? Watching your opponent make two 9 ball breaks, getting slugged in the finals of the world championship, or having one ball wobble off the template once a set during the break before the dust has settled?

I'm not saying the template is the best for pool (I don't think it is). But it is a far more consistent outcome than a triangle, so from the purity perspective it's a hard argument to make that it's bad. The are much stronger arguments against it.

 

[middleofnowhere]

wtf.
How it is important? Most of tables roll off and changes outcome of games and sets.
Just get over it.
Tournaments and players choose what rules and equipment they use. That´s their choice and if you don´t like it it does not matter. World still turning around and games go on.

Because it is a foreign object that is on the table that doesn't belong there.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

I think it's a fair point to say they should strive to optimize the game conditions, but I think this is part of the game.

What's funny is that a triangle rack brings it's own problems. There was a match where the 9 ball was flying towards the pocket almost every time and they had to delay the match and switch tables because it wasn't racking correctly. There were other times when the ref slugged the breaker unintentionally. Which is worse? Watching your opponent make two 9 ball breaks, getting slugged in the finals of the world championship, or having one ball wobble off the template once a set during the break before the dust has settled?

I'm not saying the template is the best for pool (I don't think it is). But it is a far more consistent outcome than a triangle, so from the purity perspective it's a hard argument to make that it's bad. The are much stronger arguments against it.

From a purity standpoint, it has always been illegal to have anything on the table besides balls, hands, and a bridge while shooting.

I've never used a template and never will. I'll take a sledgehammer to my table before I do.

If a ref was deliberately slug racking, he should be blacklisted. If he was doing it in an event with prize money, he is possibly breaking laws by effectively changing the outcome.

 

[MattPoland]

I think it's a fair point to say they should strive to optimize the game conditions, but I think this is part of the game.

What's funny is that a triangle rack brings it's own problems. There was a match where the 9 ball was flying towards the pocket almost every time and they had to delay the match and switch tables because it wasn't racking correctly. There were other times when the ref slugged the breaker unintentionally. Which is worse? Watching your opponent make two 9 ball breaks, getting slugged in the finals of the world championship, or having one ball wobble off the template once a set during the break before the dust has settled?

I'm not saying the template is the best for pool (I don't think it is). But it is a far more consistent outcome than a triangle, so from the purity perspective it's a hard argument to make that it's bad. The are much stronger arguments against it.

Wired nines and slug racks are definitely worse.

 

[Cuebuddy]

Would it be possible to make the template rack thinner?
So thin that it would tear when using it?

Then we could just use a conventional wooden rack?

 

[sjm]

I think it's a fair point to say they should strive to optimize the game conditions, but I think this is part of the game.

What's funny is that a triangle rack brings it's own problems. There was a match where the 9 ball was flying towards the pocket almost every time and they had to delay the match and switch tables because it wasn't racking correctly. There were other times when the ref slugged the breaker unintentionally. Which is worse? Watching your opponent make two 9 ball breaks, getting slugged in the finals of the world championship, or having one ball wobble off the template once a set during the break before the dust has settled?

I'm not saying the template is the best for pool (I don't think it is). But it is a far more consistent outcome than a triangle, so from the purity perspective it's a hard argument to make that it's bad. The are much stronger arguments against it.

A well-judged post. No matter which way we go, we're never going to get perfect conditions or perfect equipment. Poolmanis is right, the games go on no matter how it all plays out.

However, in the end, the only question that matters to Matchroom is "what is the best way of presenting pool to the fans they are trying to attract?" It a business question, not a pool question, and my sense of things is that they are making most of the right choices as they invest more and more in the professional pool product.

From a pro player standpoint, we know things at Matchroom are evolving in a constructive direction when the top 64 in the field of 128 at the WPC cashed for at least $1,500.

 

[tomatoshooter]

If you keep the template on the table after the break and it messes up a ball path then it’s a shame.

During the break I don’t care at all. The last few inches of where each ball settles is random enough as it is. It’s not like you’re playing shape for each ball to settle in an exact position. It’s a roll of the dice. I’m fine letting the magic rack influence the outcome during the break (or not). Pool starts after that anyway.

I agree. On the break, the template is just as likely to divert a ball someplace good as someplace bad and no one can control it. I guess sometimes there are issues with accidentally shifting balls when removing the template but that is a solvable problem. I think a wood rack is ideal but in many conditions the template is a better choice.

 

[Black-Balled]

I agree. On the break, the template is just as likely to divert a ball someplace good as someplace bad and no one can control it...

That is my bottom line on the matter. The single instance cited in the op was 'bad' for one player and 'good' for the other.

I have collected much data regarding play with an interfering object on the cloth and can confirm: not always good; not always bad.

 

[The_JV]

This is the one topic wherein there will never be an adequate solution. Triangles lend to slug racks or easy 9's. Templates can possibly cause roll offs. What's the other option...?..., trained tables..? That could generate roll offs as well.

I think this is the one thing that people need to suck up their personal bias on and just accept what's best/fair for the breaker. Right now, in the utopian world that no one lives in. That appears to be competent ref performed hand rack under the threat of being black balled if they screw up...lol. Next is a template...

Maybe we need to revisit the Sardo...?

 

[JazzyJeff87]

For me the decision between triangle and template doesn’t even take into consideration the minor issue of the template possibly rolling a ball off a tiny bit during the break. It’s just another part of the randomness of the break.

I love the templates, because I rarely get to play on new cloth with a set of balls that are all the same size. A template will still (usually) give you a great rack even under terrible conditions.

When they change the cloth at the hall and I have my own beautiful set of aramiths, I use the triangle and get great racks and all is well. But it doesn’t take long before the divots form, cloth tears, and a good rack becomes a memory.

For pros, if playing on new or newish cloth, I think the triangle is the way to go because it’s just too predictable with a template. I can even look like I know what I’m doing when template breaking.

 

[realkingcobra]

Just finished watching that 40 bite, with Shane down 10-3.

Shanes at 9-10 and breaking.

This is the World Championships., the closest thing our sport has compared to the PGA Masters/Augusta.

Notice on the break, with that plastic/thingy/template....how its effect on the 6 ball, Entirely changes that game and very easily its outcome.

I'm not upset that it could of been the rolllllllllllllll that beat Mika, but it trashed that game in my opinion.

It's NOT good for the sport/ever to have a piece of plastic on the table, changing ball movements.

It's hard to believe they don't use a Good Wooden Rack.

If Mika had SVB down at 10-3 did the table decide to back SVB for the come from behind win? You don't think there was any luck involved for Mika to get to a 10-3 lead in the match in the first place? Were the table playing conditions equal to both players, then all of a sudden change for SVB to come from behind for the win? Mika could have just as easily won the match too, right?

 

[easy-e]

Just finished watching that 40 bite, with Shane down 10-3.

Shanes at 9-10 and breaking.

This is the World Championships., the closest thing our sport has compared to the PGA Masters/Augusta.

Notice on the break, with that plastic/thingy/template....how its effect on the 6 ball, Entirely changes that game and very easily its outcome.

I'm not upset that it could of been the rolllllllllllllll that beat Mika, but it trashed that game in my opinion.

It's NOT good for the sport/ever to have a piece of plastic on the table, changing ball movements.

It's hard to believe they don't use a Good Wooden Rack.

With no template it may have lined up a dead 6-9. Got a nice lil hand flip after that break too.