Dennis did. They were square, by the time the show closed out.
SVB vs Orcollo Free Roll brought to you by OB Cues
- Thread starter JCIN
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Dennis did. They were square, by the time the show closed out.
Thanks!...............
Plus, I read that they played 1 pocket for another $500 (not streamed) and Dennis won so he is ahead by $500 but they are even on the number of sets won.
I totally agree with that. You need to find a balance. All I am saying is if these guys are running 8-packs like they are going out of style and getting stopped only from a dry break maybe that balance is not quite there yet.
For sure people want to see 3 packs on occasion when a player is shooting good, but we need the game to allow for both players to get to the table enough to get away from the coin flip nature of pool.
You don't know how uncommon this was? I will be happy as a clam to set up a Diamond table with 4.5" pockets and allow every living human to try and run 8 racks of 8 ball on it from the break for $100 an attempt to my $10 per attempt.
Only a very few people on Earth will be able to do it and even then they will need a generous amount of luck to go along with their tremendous skill.
Frankly I like the way it is. I like to see a player get up and run a package and then see if the next player can fire it back at them. Pool is fine the way it is in my opinion.
Would you ever consider putting some of those matches on DVD if you can't get a VOD site running?
the unbalance here might be the disparity between "these guys" and everybody else. dennis ran the first 8 twice in a row, and one set shane ran 7 right back and ended up winning! on that table! i just cant imagine any other 2 players on the planet even being capable of anything close to that. while it may not have been the back and forth sparring session an 8-ball purist such as yourself would ideally hope for, it sure dropped my jaw. that being said, i know you haven't seen it yet but you'd have to be insane not to thoroughly enjoy it
Well I saw the race to 15 match tonight and yes watching 8-ball played like that is unreal and as a novelty it is amazing to watch but rest assured that is going to get old fast when every time players in the top 20 in the world match up you see matches won on 2-3 total appearences at the table in a race to 9 or 11.
Dennis and SVB are awesome but there are certainly other players who have this speed as long as they are breaking well. Alex, Appleton, Wu, Souquet, Hohmann, Chang, Yang, Bustamante, Alcano, Corteza, ect...
What this sport needs more then anything is a move away from the coin flip nature and that is done by making sure that the game is designed such that both players get to the table ample times enough to remove the luck factor of a single swing. On this table, as tough as it is the elite pros simply play too good to allow for the cream to rise to the top. They ALREADY play this good on that table playing 8-ball, if that table and 8-ball became the norm they are only going to get better.
The novelty of 7 and 8 packs will wear off and this will become the same as the issues that arose in 9-ball at the pro level. Lets not screw around and waste 5 years before we realize that and then try to fix it. We have wasted WAY too much time already in the last 25 years of this sport going nowhere. With the new 10-foots and the new excitement over 8-ball at the pro level billiards actually has a chance to go somewhere, but we cannot fall into the same traps and make the same mistakes that were made in the past.
i've seen ronnie and lee van and some other great players play 8 ball in the phillipines on tables with way bigger pockets and not string anything like this (with the exception of busty). who knows, maybe it'll get boring after a while but for me it was exhilarating watching them run racks on that equipment. i just don't like the notion that these players have been told their whole lives "here's the game, get good at it." and now it's "you're too good, let's get a new game on bigger tables." you obviously love pool, as do i, so there had to be something good there in the first place. to paraphrase JCIN, you have to give these guys an opportunity to do something amazing.
I respect your position, but I have to disagree here. As much as I love pool and TAR, I rarely tune in to watch tourneys or TAR events. I just don't watch much TV, period, and prefer to do other things. However, last night I shelled out the $35 to watch the match precisely because I had read on here that these guys were putting up monster packages. And I want to see that on a regular basis if possible. If every match comes down to 1 or two turns at the table per player, then that is some serious pool that I will pay to see! That is super exciting, imo.
To each their own though. Those grinding type of matches wear out this viewer at least. If pool comes down to what you describe, I'll continue to keep my money in my wallet and just go fishing.
Cheers,
JL
Yeah I think it's way more exciting when a player's down 9-1 (race to 11) with winner break. Because you know that if he breaks dry, he might never get back to the table. At the same time you have the excitement of knowing he could actually come back if he strings some racks together.
That's not going to happen very often in alternate break. I know it can happen especially after Appleton almost lost in the World 9ball being up 11-3 (race to 13), but I really don't think it's the norm.
That's not going to happen very often in alternate break. I know it can happen especially after Appleton almost lost in the World 9ball being up 11-3 (race to 13), but I really don't think it's the norm.
I did not "describe" the actual game.
The grinding that took place in the Oscar/Morra match and that can often take place in 9 and 10-ball when you tighten the equipment kills rotation pool as a spectator sport for the general public. When there is only one ball to shoot at the balance between the perecentages between playing a safe on a tough ball or shooting become squewed because of an overly tough table then people are constantly ducking.
One of the major advantages of 8-ball is that safety play is VASTLY more difficult due to the number of balls an opponent has, the percentages of a safety when compared to taking on a tough shot are thus usually in favor of the shot. We saw this in the 8-ball we watched, there was almost no safety play, in the entire match last night I believe there was one safety played all night in 26 games played.
The reason I have pushed for 8-ball AND the tough playing conditions is because 8-ball is a game that people need to shoot in alot of the time. When the game is tough enough people WILL get into positions where they need to shoot at tough shots alot and we will thus see ALOT of amazing moments and shot making. Will players also miss at times? Yes, but that is what builds the tension and excitement in a sport like pool, the feeling of being unsure that a player can overcome the challenge the table presents and get out.
Last night got to a point where they broke the balls wide open without any issues and you might as well have swept the balls and reracked. Dennis ran every single table he got to off the break, the ONLY thing that stopped him were dry breaks, he ran 10 racks off the break in his 11 wins.
It is also not about wanting to watch pros miss, which is a BS red herring of an arguement. People do not watch the Masters or US Open in golf because they "like to watch the pros miss". They like to watch the top pros in the world get onto tough courses like that where par is a very good score and play stellar rounds of golf and get 3 or 4 under par on a very tough track where "par" is actually the score the top pros struggle to get. The reason for wanting the toughest equipment is to see the pros run 3 or maybe even 4 on a table where doing THAT boggles the mind.
On the TAR table I already know Dennis has the potential to run a 15 pack if he had SVB breaking for him, anyone who watched last night should see that as pretty obvious.
I also find the defensive backlash against the 10-foot tables by some people to be a little odd. The tables proved to be wildly popular with the pros, most of them said that is what pro pool should be played on in Tunica when they were asked. The fans have taken to then VERY well and liked the style of pool played on them, and many people has thus come in and started trying to downplay them with "they are just a fad" and "they will never be more then a niche segment of pool". That type of attitude when you find something that really clicked with the pros and the audience is the type of thing that will assure this sport stays in the toilet for the rest of our lifetimes.
It is a fad. I was there when it started.
As of now there are exactly four quality tournament tables in existence. Not all the pros like the tables. Shane hates the things. Probably because he hasnt won on them but his biggest beef is that they change the physical aspect of just reaching shots and how you position your body. Which if you spend your life working on a set of skills for s specific playing field it makes sense to not be all that happy when someone randomly says "Yeah all those years you spent training....we are gonna change the playing field for shits and giggles"
You wanna know the one thing every pro I have talked to loves? I mean every guy who played the game loved it.....speed pool. The way it was played in Jakaarta recently. To a man they rave about it.
So thats what doing what the players want will get you in the future.
The ten footer is a gimmick thought up by Earl popularized by our stream of his match with Shane and then magnified by the four tables Greg built. If the world suddenly went to ten footers in two years all the same guys would be winning anyway and in five years its would be how the table should be 6x12 because thats what snooker uses and look how much people love snooker.
The problem isnt the game or the table. The problem is pool is boring as shit to watch for all but a few thousand people in this country. They seem to do just fine in Asia with the boring old nine footers.
Dunno, you don't get ten pages of posts about three packs... and seeing 5+ misses per player in the set is gonna be a letdown, for the players as well as viewers.
When two guys are playing perfect golf, nobody suggests we shrink the cup to the size of a quarter and and play only on 600 yard holes.
By all indications and photos, the tar table is already very tough. I've heard the words "barely playable" used in reference to it. Does that sound like something that needs tightening up?
Maybe the table isn't at fault, it's the game. A lot of guys talk about how 8 ball is a kiddie game, and too easy at the pro level. Hate to say it, but maybe this is proof of that. If they need added challenge... don't shrink the pockets, make 'em shoot the balls in order.
Yeah, and I have heard the terms "7-pack" and "8-pack" and seen a guy play an entire set and never miss a ball in 11 wins on the thing. Does that sound like a table that is "barely playable"?
and how many other guys have you seen do that?
Alex shot the lights out on it and was beat by SVB due to his poor breaking. Busta beat SVB on the table. Archer shot phenomenal on the table against Busta until the "you are always joking" comment that knocked him off his game. Schmidt played pretty solid 10-ball on day 3 against Corey, not giving him a whole lot of chances.
That covers most of the people who are true elite level players that we have seen play on the table.
I think the top end pros have certainly shown that a claim that the table is "barely playable" is hyperbole in the extreme. The table is proving to be VERY playable by top end pros and the more they play it the more they are learning to dominate it over time.
I grew up on 10 footers (snooker cut). Most Canadians of my age hated them. Good for nothing. Not a Snooker Table. Not a Pool table. We used to make fun of the "tourists" who would walk in off the street and think they would play like a big bar box. 30min's and 4 balls made later they would be down the street.
They are not much tougher but if you can't use a reach you might as well take up bowling. Today's economics will not allow 10 footers. Everything costs more to operate and the owner makes not a penny more. If I owned a room I might put ONE tight one in as a gag for me to practice on or trap somebody who came to visit for some action (my room...my rules). Just like every room should have a Snooker table for golf.
All this talk of tight pockets is getting old. It's all well that TAR table tight like a size 4 shoe but most halls get way too much play before re-clothing and are not dead nuts straight. The tolerances will get you. Shit I've been beaten by tables with 5" pockets as I watch a ball roll away from it's intended path we all have. A regular Diamond with 6 months of pool hall play is plenty tough enough.
We could learn from these guys. They love big scores.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VcOgcdZZeyA#t=38s
They are not much tougher but if you can't use a reach you might as well take up bowling. Today's economics will not allow 10 footers. Everything costs more to operate and the owner makes not a penny more. If I owned a room I might put ONE tight one in as a gag for me to practice on or trap somebody who came to visit for some action (my room...my rules). Just like every room should have a Snooker table for golf.
All this talk of tight pockets is getting old. It's all well that TAR table tight like a size 4 shoe but most halls get way too much play before re-clothing and are not dead nuts straight. The tolerances will get you. Shit I've been beaten by tables with 5" pockets as I watch a ball roll away from it's intended path we all have. A regular Diamond with 6 months of pool hall play is plenty tough enough.
We could learn from these guys. They love big scores.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VcOgcdZZeyA#t=38s
And what is wrong with this?
If anything it sets the elite players apart. Raj and Oscar were not running fours and fives and they are solid pro players. I have heard a 147 in snooker compared to running an 8 or 9 in 9 ball and to me its a valid comparison. Elite snooker players run 147's, should they make the table 8X16 ?
It sounds like you want conditions so tough that a couple of outs in a row would only happen every once in awhile with the best players in the world playing. If thats the type of pool you want to see its easy to find....go sweat some APA 4's. You won't have any trouble finding a seat because no one wants to watch people miss.