Taiwan TOI

BasementDweller said:
So are you implying, which I know you've done in the past, that Efren plays YOUR way?

I certainly hope you aren't implying that because Efren plays exactly opposite of how you explain your method.

You attempt to view every shot in the same manner. You attempt to force your will on the table, which sounds admirable to a point.

Efren steps to the table and plays whatever shot the table gives him. He just goes with the flow.

It's such a clear distinction that it's hard to not to sit here and scratch my head in amazement.
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You will see it if you know what to look for, and to see what you look for is by training the happenings that you see.

Regards

Chrippa
 
CJ Wiley said:
Efren and I have played many times and our styles are very similar. We played for 14 hours straight in Seattle at a Filipino Pool Room (Nardo's) and we missed less than 14 balls between the two of us.

We just kept doing the same thing to each other time and time again. I won, however, at the end of the 14 hours there was only one game difference.

When I first saw Efren play I was impressed and ask Mike Lebron (who was steering Efren like a manager at the time) what is his "secret".

Mike turned to me and said with a twinkle in his eye like I should already know, "he uses a touch of inside".......and the rest is history.

There was not a publicly acclaimed system called 'The Touch of Inside' before my DVD, I simply put this technique into a format that others could learn and utilize......or not.

If someone chooses not to believe in this system, it will be impossible to see, this is human nature. You can see this clearly on this forum.

Watch Efren play and it's obvious to those that have seen the TOI video that he's constantly "floating" the cue ball (the sign of using TOI to counter after-contact spin). Efren and I both use center, inside and outside english when necessary, however we favor one type of shot. This can be the TOI or the TOO, it's purely up to the individual.
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How do you make to balls heavy, dead, floating when they interact? Both of them.

Thanks CJ

Regards

Chrippa
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Maybe I don't know what you're trying to say - do you think a "touch of inside" doesn't produce inside English? If you're squirting the CB, you're spinning it, whether that's your intent or not. Spin is what creates squirt.

pj
chgo
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Hi PJ,

The stroke to the CB produces inside english on the CB but with the right pace/speed (just have the deflection running for it in the line it was shot) it will contact the OB that will counter it and that will make the CB and OB take the energy of the spin by the contact of each other. Dead/heavy/floating on both sides. If you think about it in reverse, OB - contacts - CB - see it?

Regards

Chrippa
 
Chrippa said:
Hi PJ,

The stroke to the CB produces inside english on the CB but with the right pace/speed (just have the deflection running for it in the line it was shot) it will contact the OB that will counter it and that will make the CB and OB take the energy of the spin by the contact of each other. Dead/heavy/floating on both sides. If you think about it in reverse, OB - contacts - CB - see it?

Regards

Chrippa
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On a long enough shot the toi will wear off, won't it? The deflection happens but the float effect would turn into collision induced spin. No?
 
Mitchxout said:
On a long enough shot the toi will wear off, won't it? The deflection happens but the float effect would turn into collision induced spin. No?
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Depends on the speed. But I get you.The spin will grab and turn inside. However - if you master that you will begin to master the Masse:).

Think of draw or fade the ball in golf. See the hit, create the hit, see it go down - reverse it to make it happen.

Think of a stopshot "dead" in, how would you like to shoot it. You are standing in perfect position, do you want to hit it center firm, do you want to follow it, do you want to put draw on it? Why did you choose some of them?

Now, - for a left cut, reverse the picture of the stopshot and apply it to the left cut, see it? Right cue - see it, bottom - see it? Incoming CB and outcoming OB, 6 dimensions.

Turn the picture around, what do you do on a Jumpshot, what ange do you choose and why?''

Chrippa
 
Mitchxout said:
On a long enough shot the toi will wear off, won't it? The deflection happens but the float effect would turn into collision induced spin. No?
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I hope you don't mind me chiming in.

That's where the acceleration of stroke & speed of shot come into play.

You want the CB to squirt with just enough spin to arrive at the OB with just enough inside rotation to negate the outside rotation that the CB would pick up from the collision.

If you decell or hit too softly then swerve can cause an undercut & way too softly & the ball can come out of the collision with that outside rotation.

As CJ has said, playing on less than good tables one can hit that bit harder to keep the ball on line & still have the CB 'floating'.
.
Hope this helps.

Best 2 You & ALL,
Rick

PS I'm fairly sure that CJ would say that all this is over analysis & I'd agree. Understanding what is happening & actually doing it involves totally different aspects of one's self. To me, it's a 'feel' & see & allow one's self to make a subconscious adjustment method. The human mind & body can be amazing entities.
 
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development depends on momentum, and this requires a definite purpose

Mitchxout said:
This is very true. This is why practice is important.
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Practice is important, especially practicing outside one's comfort zone.

If someone is stuck and "hit a wall" in their development it's prudent to at least try something different.

Personally, if I feel like my game is getting dull, I'll practice opposite handed for an hour or two. This does some magical things mentally because it forces me to use a hemisphere of my mind that isn't typically used.

Remember, development depends on momentum, and this requires a definite purpose. This is I like training people using the TOI approach because it narrows the choices and gives the player a specific focus.
 
take the terms "swerving and squirting" out of their pool vocabulary

Mikjary said:
Yes, but as we all know, swerve happens. You aren't changing your angle with speed, just limiting the swerve.

As I said in other posts, speed won't always be the answer for a TOI adjustment. Cue tip placement has be changed slightly. This adds more (minimal) spin and swerve has to be recalculated.

If inside spin becomes evident, I know my tip placement is wrong and adjust accordingly. TOI is inside spin, but the key component I'm working with is the cue ball deflection. I want to get the job done with minimal spin.

Best,
Mike
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I recommend everyone take the terms "swerving and squirting" out of their pool vocabulary, it can lead to premature eshotulation. ;)
 
Mitchxout said:
I would like to take missing out of my pool vocabulary..Lol
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That's a good idea, the mind feeds off negativity, I will make a point to say "I didn't make the shot, rather than using the "M Word".

Who ever came up with the term "squirt" is probably still laughing their squatter off. LoL
 
we just always referred to it as defection or veer (which seems a better choice)

ENGLISH! said:
I could be wrong but I think Dr. Dave shot that squirt gun.
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The term has been around for a long time, we just always referred to it as defection or veer, not the "s word". The pool room I grew up in did sell the Squirt soda though, I guess they still make it.

Putting too much thought into these terms will often be counter-productive and take away from the true incentive......developing a touch for the game and a feel for the pocket zone.
 
I'm an advocate of playing on the "inside" of the cue ball over the outside. I can play outside, but I think the "inside" is a bit more predictable and easier to stay within the "angles". Other people will play differently and prefer their methods over mine.

To each their own. You will never know what will work for you until you try it. If you try it and your method works better, then you should stick with your method.

I may as well come up with a fancy title for this type of play, so I am going to call mine,
"TOTAL INSIDE TO SUCCESSFULLY UNDERSTANDING POOL".

My system's acronym will be T.I.T.S.U.P! When your game goes "T.I.T.S.U.P", you can give me all the credit.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I'm an advocate of playing on the "inside" of the cue ball over the outside. I can play outside, but I think the "inside" is a bit more predictable and easier to stay within the "angles". Other people will play differently and prefer their methods over mine.

To each their own. You will never know what will work for you until you try it. If you try it and your method works better, then you should stick with your method.

I may as well come up with a fancy title for this type of play, so I am going to call mine,
"TOTAL INSIDE TO SUCCESSFULLY UNDERSTANDING POOL".

My system's acronym will be T.I.T.S.U.P! When your game goes "T.I.T.S.U.P", you can give me all the credit.
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Love it..:rotflmao:
 
If someone does not know the amount of spin that are applying to the CB ball, then they have a weakness in applying spin and will adopt a style of play the doesn't require the use of spin.

If you don't have a real highly fine tuned sense of stroke speed, you will not know how much spin is being applied. Someone with a so so stroke will have this problem of not knowing how much spin is on the ball. So, they use a style of play that does not require spin instead of developing the stroke
 
By the way, how does your game hold up under pressure?

duckie said:
If someone does not know the amount of spin that are applying to the CB ball, then they have a weakness in applying spin and will adopt a style of play the doesn't require the use of spin.

If you don't have a real highly fine tuned sense of stroke speed, you will not know how much spin is being applied. Someone with a so so stroke will have this problem of not knowing how much spin is on the ball. So, they use a style of play that does not require spin instead of developing the stroke
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We all just wish we could play as well as you. By the way, how does your game hold up under pressure? ;)

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