TAR and The DCC

EZMoney

Could this be your money?
Silver Member
I don't know about you, but I was a little disappointed with the overall experience of the DCC via TAR. It started strong with action around the clock. So I bought into the 5 day package on Tuesday for $50 big ones. Then the action seemed to slow down, coverage slacked off. Did TAR get busted? They changed their streaming vehicle like Thursday - Friday, didn't seem like hardly anyone was connected the last part of the week, like 45 - 98, compared to 847 the first part of the week. Did TAR explain this BS? Did anybody get a refund? I hate to nock The Action Report, I appreciated what they do. I just need someone to clearify what this was all about.
 
In appreciating what TAR does, you have to keep some things in perspective.

First. TAR flys their crew up to a event and all of their equipment. So you got Hotel and Airfare plus they're going to ring up alot in the food, drink and other expenses. They take this kind of hit right out of the box and have no clue whether they're going to reap any of their expense back by PPV.

2nd. Pool and action are not 2 words that go with reliablity. Action matches just kind of happen. They almost cannot be scheduled with any certainty. You got people that say they are going to play and don't. You got people that say they are going to play this race, for this much at this time and don't show up at all or they show up hours or days later. You also have big matches that happen with no warning, they just happen, so no way to advertise them.

3rd. They are always at the mercy of the event location's internet feed. It could be great, it could be half-ass, it could work great and then crap out intermittantly. They can do their best to adjust their encoding of the bitrate going outbound. If the feed is excellent, they can bring a clearer picture to the world, if it isn't they might have adjust down their video encoding to use less bandwidth, which means that the quality suffers.

4th. The 800's and thousands of viewers you see, are when the free feed is going on. When it goes to PPV, you see it drop 15 fold.

5th. They try their best to line up some action to be able to broadcast. This requires the players to agree to play on a TV table, it also requires them to agree to a match and actually show up. See no 1 above.

6th. TAR appeals mostly to hard core pool action junkies. Those people are aware of how matches happen, they are aware that it's not non-stop high dollar action between top name pros, they are watching to see excellent players play meaningful money matches and realize everything that goes with it.

TAR broadcast many action matches with top players for high dollar action over many days. Much of it free. The least a person can do is to keep it in perspective and say I could contribute 50.00 for 9 days of pool, 24 hours a day. Most people would say that is one helluva deal. Along with you getting all of that for 50.00, you also put 50.00 in their pocket to go to their expenses and allow them to continue bringing this kind of action to you in the future.

Both TAR and Accu-stats realized that their Internet feed sucked this year. They had no problems last year, but this year it sucked. Both businesses value their customers and they tried to make it right for them. If you ever have a problem with logging in, or not being able to get the video, Justin will refund your money. No questions asked.

I'm sure TAR is very disappointed in what happened this year, the Hotel's Internet feed sucked which really hurt them. They had some problems with the gaming commission out of the blue and that changed everything for them. I'm sure they wish they could have been able to advertise and show some more Action Matches and that everything worked out with that. They are at the mercy of so many variables and a large part of their potential customer base, is so impatient and are not realistic about how pool action matches work. For some reason, they expect 24 hour a day big money matches lined up for them on several tables at the same time and expect them to contantly switch between matches back and forth.

A few years ago, if you weren't at the Derby, you would have never seen any action. NONE. ZERO. Now you got to see probably close to 50 high dollar matches between some top pros in all games... Bar table, 9 ft'ers, One Pocket, 9 ball, 10 ball LIVE AS IT HAPPENS.

In streaming in this day and age, it is rarely going to come all together and your going to get a stable, fast internet feed out to the world with no problems.

Do we all wish it was like that , sure... Does TAR learn something from each time it goes on the road and it's at the mercy of the event's Internet feed.. I'm sure they do. I know they have many things in the works for the future. Maybe you'll see some archived video footage that you can watch anytime you want. Remember, they have most all the footage archived, that can be gone thru at a later time and edited to have individual matches.

It's all good, just be patient, grow with them. This is a new way of showing pool, one that we never had before. It allows us that can't be there, to be there in a way and to witness some of the best pool in the world, that we would have never got to see, if it wasn't for people like TAR.

At least that's my take on it, my opinion only, I speak for no one else but myself and I'm in a hurry to write this so I can go practice. Hope it made some sense.:D

I don't know about you, but I was a little disappointed with the overall experience of the DCC via TAR. It started strong with action around the clock. So I bought into the 5 day package on Tuesday for $50 big ones. Then the action seemed to slow down, coverage slacked off. Did TAR get busted? They changed their streaming vehicle like Thursday - Friday, didn't seem like hardly anyone was connected the last part of the week, like 45 - 98, compared to 847 the first part of the week. Did TAR explain this BS? Did anybody get a refund? I hate to nock The Action Report, I appreciated what they do. I just need someone to clearify what this was all about.
 
Damn Cali Red - I have to give someone else Rep before giving it to you again. TAR should post this in bold letter on their site.

To EZMoney: I don't know what you were watching but this is what I saw on the PPV feed from the time I bought in until I quit watching. Don't quote me on the order.

I saw Jon Hennesse play John Morra for 10K, JL play Tedder for north of 60k, JL play Larry Price twice, Alex Pagulayan playing Mike Dechaine for 2.5k a man two sets, I found out that Jason Hunt (Gypsy) is an idiot and saw him blow his last hundred to Gary Lutmann. I got to see Brittany Bryant hitting balls, which was cool because I had been hearing about how good she is and never seen it. What did I miss? Feels like there was something else there?

Oh I got to see Scooter trying to bet the last $1987 in his pocket on a race to three after Tedder lost, I think I missed the game that he was able to make where I think he doubled up.

In short I guess we were watching a different feed because I felt as though I got to sit and watch some great action with a lot of drama for 30 hours. And if you noticed TAR stayed on well past the posted stopping times to bring us the match in progress to it's concluson - twice at least.

I got in for $30 but I donated another $10 for the free feed. Honestly, for the professional production, and "almost like being there" feeling there is really no better deal in PPV in pool in my opinion.

The ONLY reason I didn't get both TAR and AccuStats is that I know I can buy the Accu-Stats later. What went down on TAR was live and never to be seen again. I know that I and probably about a hundred others saw some things this week on TAR PPV that we can talk about for years to come. To me that's priceless when five years from now I can say do you remember what happened when Jeannete and Tedder were tied at 28:28 and ten people chime in with "sure do" and "what a match"!!!
 
In appreciating what TAR does, you have to keep some things in perspective.D

CaliRed,

I appreciate what TAR does and I understand the fustrations of live streaming. I consider my 50 bones as a contribution for what they bring me. The one thing that I think would make it better for the viewer is more updates as to what's going to happen and what is happening right now. Lots of the time it just seemed as though they had a camera pointed at a table with no one at the wheel to let me know what's up. Streaming is good for pool, I love it just let me know watup.:thumbup:
 
Get a refund by spending 50 bucks less in the casino next year when you go so you dont have to sweat it online again. The horseshoe clearly has a cheap amount of bandwith. They probably need to increase it 10x to handle the type of traffic they were getting. TAR did the best they can.

Theyre better people than me though, I mean honestly I would have prorated the refunds. I also wouldnt let people who were asking for a refund purchase future events. IMO there are some good reasons for getting a refund, like your computer breaks or that cant help you get in, something that prevented you from watching it. However once you watch 99% of it I dont think you get to sit back and then say, hmmm I want the cash back.
 
TAR is a great idea for pool, problem is, its a hard sell. I pay $80 month for 300 channels and get pool 2 -3 times a week..

$50 isn't a lot of money, however, if I can't watch the broadcast it becomes too much for the service. Too bad it isn't $50 monthly or something and available 24/7 like a VOD TV channel. Next problem is, my monthly membership at local room is only $35.

I like the free viewing cause I come and go all day long. These matches last hours and its hard to sit that long watching.

What I would like to see is 4 or 5 sponsors sell product during the stream (auction) anything over the asking price goes to TAR. Do it like the new site that charges $1.00 per bid. During a break take bids on an item. When the break is done the last bidder wins. Someone could get a $1000 cue for $1.00 If 2000 bids got placed TAR gets $1000 with more items to sell.
 
Get a refund by spending 50 bucks less in the casino next year when you go so you dont have to sweat it online again. The horseshoe clearly has a cheap amount of bandwith. They probably need to increase it 10x to handle the type of traffic they were getting. TAR did the best they can.

Theyre better people than me though, I mean honestly I would have prorated the refunds. I also wouldnt let people who were asking for a refund purchase future events. IMO there are some good reasons for getting a refund, like your computer breaks or that cant help you get in, something that prevented you from watching it. However once you watch 99% of it I dont think you get to sit back and then say, hmmm I want the cash back.

Last year I bought the Accustats PPV and I couldn't get in AT ALL - not once - not ever - I tried everything. They were using the same provider as TAR I believe.

I sent an email letting them know that and received no reply and no refund. I didn't even want a refund - I asked for a credit that I could use to rent a match later.

That said however I don't think that AccuStats or TAR can be held responsible for my connection as long as THEY are broadcasting and some people are getting it clearly.

The internet is not cut and dried. I have sat next to my wife on the couch with both of us watching streaming video from the same feed and hers is perfect and mine freezes up. There are SO MANY issues between the broadcast point and the display on your computer that it's literally impossible to diagnose them all. I have torn my hair out trying to watch TAR these past two years. Ironically the WORST connection I had was during a visit to my dad's house in OKC where bandwidth was clearly not an issue.

I liken live streaming now to the telephone in 1909. In 10-20 years the whole world will wired for fiber optics and people of today will be telling their kids horror stories of having to actually install and configure software and plugins......when I was your age my data had to travel in packets sonny.....
 
Get a refund by spending 50 bucks less in the casino next year when you go so you dont have to sweat it online again. The horseshoe clearly has a cheap amount of bandwith. They probably need to increase it 10x to handle the type of traffic they were getting. TAR did the best they can.

Theyre better people than me though, I mean honestly I would have prorated the refunds. I also wouldnt let people who were asking for a refund purchase future events. IMO there are some good reasons for getting a refund, like your computer breaks or that cant help you get in, something that prevented you from watching it. However once you watch 99% of it I dont think you get to sit back and then say, hmmm I want the cash back.

Well, If I pay for 5 days and only get 4. I would want 1 day credit. I don't go to walmart and tell them I know they are 50% less than Sear... I still want to pay full price! I take the 50% off.
 
CaliRed,

I appreciate what TAR does and I understand the fustrations of live streaming. I consider my 50 bones as a contribution for what they bring me. The one thing that I think would make it better for the viewer is more updates as to what's going to happen and what is happening right now. Lots of the time it just seemed as though they had a camera pointed at a table with no one at the wheel to let me know what's up. Streaming is good for pool, I love it just let me know watup.:thumbup:

EZ, Trust me buddy, your frustration was a fraction of ours at TAR. The last thing we want to do is travel to such a huge event (and one of such importance to marketing of TAR) and have it be a sub-par performance. Justin, Nasty and Mark have made some major upgrades to the equipment and software they use to stream the events over the last year. I highly doubt they'd drop that kind of cash and then go cheap on the internet connection. The freezing and buffering problems were completely out of our control. The tension in the air within the booth was thick enough to cut with a knife. It's just really frustrating to do so much to provide a quality service to the loyal viewers and then have to fade horrible bandwith and mediocre internet connections. Unfortunately, i'm a complete technical donkey, so I had to sit back and watch Justin's blood-pressure rise. And for those making the extremely rude comments in the chat room about the service, thanks, your valued opinions will be noted. To everyone else (me included), lets keep supporting these guys. They've got some great ideas and a bright future ahead with our continued support and appreciation.
 
Beav, I couldnt agree more and thank you for all your hard work this week.

Justin is as a stand up guy as you will find, and mark is a smart man who had done very well in all that he does, this had to make them so frustrated they want to quit,, but I know they won't they love this too much.
 
EZ, Trust me buddy, your frustration was a fraction of ours at TAR. The last thing we want to do is travel to such a huge event (and one of such importance to marketing of TAR) and have it be a sub-par performance. Justin, Nasty and Mark have made some major upgrades to the equipment and software they use to stream the events over the last year. I highly doubt they'd drop that kind of cash and then go cheap on the internet connection. The freezing and buffering problems were completely out of our control. The tension in the air within the booth was thick enough to cut with a knife. It's just really frustrating to do so much to provide a quality service to the loyal viewers and then have to fade horrible bandwith and mediocre internet connections. Unfortunately, i'm a complete technical donkey, so I had to sit back and watch Justin's blood-pressure rise. And for those making the extremely rude comments in the chat room about the service, thanks, your valued opinions will be noted. To everyone else (me included), lets keep supporting these guys. They've got some great ideas and a bright future ahead with our continued support and appreciation.

I opted for the accu-stats ppv Saturday night vs TAR and it was awful. I didn't even see one complete rack of the finals. No expert here, but sharing the bandwidth for streaming didn't work out very well and wonder why it wasn't anticipated. I admire your loyalty to TAR and support of them through the rough times. But as they say this is business and as a customer or prospective customer, I will be very wary of laying down cash for any ppv in the future becasue of the quality of the stream I saw from accu-stats. I appreciate what both parties do for pool and I hope they figure it out.:grin:
 
I enjoyed the action (Free & PPV)...even with the choppy feed and repeated reloading...I got to see some good action go down...and I know a lot of what TAR does is out of their hands...they just have the camera's on...hoping the feed is stable and waiting for the matches to happen...

Hats off to Justin, Nasty, Mark and everyone else who worked their butts off to make this thing happen! Keep it up! I can't wait for the next stream!
 
Great TAR action

I paid my $50 and saw some great action for 5 days without having to spring for transportation and lodging to some god-forsaken casino in Indiana;) So the feed was a little glitchy at times? For the most part my video was great.

Got to watch SVB, Gentile, Henderson, Platis, Bailey, Shuff, Breedlove, etc in one hole and Hennessey, Price, JL, Tedder, Richeson, Pagulayan, Dechaine, Cone, Slow Arm John, etc in action. Plus Wincardona, Marsman, even Scooter dropping into the booth was a treat. And on top of all that, got to see running commentary by savvy guys like Donnie Mills and Watchez in the chat. What more could you ask?

Thanks TAR. Under the adverse conditions of a flakey hotel feed and the gaming commission interference, you did a great job.:D
 
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I think TAR is a good idea. In fact I think PPV streams are the only chance pool has in making any progress. But only a well run businesses can survive.

I'm sure the people at TAR are well-liked and standup guys. And that their hearts are in the right place. Strong commitment and the like.

But in business you don't get to blame someone else. You don't get to complain about being short staffed. You don't get to explain your misfortunes to your customers. You're just out of business. And people who rush to their defense when the slightest complaint occurs are just enablers. They have no stake so they can say it's ok. Are they going to pay TAR's bills?

Assuming the biggest factor in the make or break over your business opportunity (bandwidth) is going to be fine is business failure 101. The failed broadcase for the customer is not the hotel's fault it's TARs. When I paid my $50 it says received by Justin not the hotel. You dont get to make a mistake like that in the real world. Successful businesses run into problems too but they overcome them without whining to their customers.

Another crucial error is don't oversell and under perform. Oh and stuff like allowing people to get tasered in their production, 15 year olds drinking while their commentating. allowing other people on the mic to dog others behind their back. i guess that's all funny in the pool world. It goes on and on. This is a sign of people playing at business not actually running a business.

I want TAR to survive. I find what they do interesting and affordable enough. but if they're going to make it they need to make real customers (not their pool buddies and the hardcore) happy. the future of the business is not the 20 people in the chatroom it's the thousand who watch for free.

So if you want to help TAR survive put that energy in fighting with their detractors to good use. Offer them some business acumen and guidance in how to run an efficient and professional business. I believe TAR has a viable opportunity but it can't be run by pool guys. It needs serious business people. I want them to make that transition because otherwise pool is going to go farther underground in this country. I wish them good luck.
 
...Oh and stuff like allowing people to get tasered in their production, 15 year olds drinking while their commentating. allowing other people on the mic to dog others behind their back...

That's part of the beauty of TAR, the raw uncensored experience of being at the rail while the action is going down. I would be bored to tears at some squeaky clean, safe, mistake-free pool coverage that would strip the edginess away and ape the bland souless never-offend-anybody approach they have at golf tournaments.

(P.S. 15 year olds drinking there is an allegation and not an established fact;))
 
Sorry TAR isn't like turning on Chanel 2. For those of you that haven't realized, pool isn't on TV, its not taped with huge camera crews and production staff, polished and edited and spoon fed to us like football.

TAR is out there gorilla, bringing us hand made product that is not only EXCELLENT in nature and content, but considering what they are up against, very well done production-wise. In many ways, I prefer the rawness of what we are shown to the more polished products I'm used to.

Take a look at the number of people watching the paid feeds and multiply that by what you paid, and please do a little thinking about how lucky we are all to have TAR out there showing us what is going on (and creating going ons for us to see) and hope they last and don't give up because they sure as hell aren't getting rich.

Think they need to be more business like? Trust me, a smart businessman wouldn't get involved in this venture. Just ask any cable content producer.
This is not business, this is love.

Thanks TAR that was an amazing ride and I think streaming the Tedder/Lee match for free was above and beyond the call.

Thanks again

Kevin
 
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That's part of the beauty of TAR, the raw uncensored experience of being at the rail while the action is going down. I would be bored to tears at some squeaky clean, safe, mistake-free pool coverage that would strip the edginess away and ape the bland souless never-offend-anybody approach they have at golf tournaments.

(P.S. 15 year olds drinking there is an allegation and not an established fact;))

I so agree. I'm so sick of the super polished image conscious BS we are fed all day long by the mainstream media. I love the gorilla aspect of what these guys are doing. Rock on TAR.

Kevin
 
well enjoy the gorilla while you can. I put it at about 25 percent chance that the casino doesn't let TAR back. big business doesn't like the gorilla and what comes with it.
 
JL hubub early in week

Can someone comment on what was really going on early in the week re JL. I tuned in too late to hear the off camera voices. Had Sunny had a few? The chat only further confused the root issue. Contractual? Who's? Resolved later in week?

If NOMB -that's cool too.

I take it the fight wasn't on camera late in the week.

Keep it up TAR!! You can almost smell spilt beer/ cigarette smoke/ and burnt rope when the feed is rocking. We railbird wanna-be gangsters like it.(Rule #1know where the nearest exit is/and find something heavy to hide behind).

Great work gentlemen-I mean fellaaazzzz!:groucho:


3railkick

de cora/IE
just clownin
 
well enjoy the gorilla while you can. I put it at about 25 percent chance that the casino doesn't let TAR back. big business doesn't like the gorilla and what comes with it.

Thanks for the primer on big business.

Thanks again

Kevin
 
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