like you or i would :grin-square:
TAR Podcast #8 - Shane - Fransisco - Shane Talks About His Aiming Method
- Thread starter Fast Lenny
- Start date
like you or i would :grin-square:
Champ,
Don't sweat it. Last night I was in the pool room with my friend Jive Ong and I introduced him to a really good Taiwanese coach. Mr. Chen has coached a lot of champions and currently has 200 students in Xiamen.
He said that the aiming method I use, which is what Hal Houle teaches, is good and it works. He said that he had been watching my play for the five years since coming to Xiamen and he saw a noticeable improvement AFTER I learned and started to use it.
But he said of course that knowing how to aim is only the first step and that a complete game requires proper technique. Of course that's common sense.
The point is that even here where some of the world's greatest players are produced the coaches recognize when a particular method works and is useful.
No matter what the method is, no matter who uses it, no matter how successful they are with it there will always be knockers. It almost has to be that way for balance. There is no way to have a world with universal agreement.
Just think about it like this.
In all the interviews you have ever seen with professional players how often are they asked about how they aim?
Try next to never.
Go back four years ago and TAR did an hour with Shane and aiming didn't come up once.
But the reason Shane was asked and why he responded is because of the fact that there has been so much negativity put out by the anti-aiming system crowd. Because of that the pro-aiming system crowd has looked for every nugget they can find to prove that professional players also use aiming systems.
So now we end up four years later with a climate where it's ok to ask Shane how he aims because it's deemed to be worthy of talking about and not a taboo subject any more. And that is directly because of the so-called naysayers. And yes their tactics and remarks have been utterly crappy and they have spewed plenty of spiteful and hateful commentary, as have we at times.
But, at the end of the day, we won. We have proven what we set out to prove and that is that non-standard, non-ghost ball aiming methods are valid and they work. And not because of subconscious adjustments but because they FORCE the player to get on the right line so that the player can then focus on the delivery.
Top coaches around the world use and teach these methods and top players use them. So don't sweat the haters, don't sweat the people who still cling to the idea that it's snake-oil. They have said everything they can say to discredit aiming systems in general and everything they can say to disparage those who teach those aiming systems.
But at the end of the day they haven't debunked the systems or the teachers and the pros speaking out that they use systems or methods to aim that aren't just "feel" proves what we have said all along.
So celebrate that. Don't give any of the naysayers any more power by getting in the mud with them.
Don't sweat it. Last night I was in the pool room with my friend Jive Ong and I introduced him to a really good Taiwanese coach. Mr. Chen has coached a lot of champions and currently has 200 students in Xiamen.
He said that the aiming method I use, which is what Hal Houle teaches, is good and it works. He said that he had been watching my play for the five years since coming to Xiamen and he saw a noticeable improvement AFTER I learned and started to use it.
But he said of course that knowing how to aim is only the first step and that a complete game requires proper technique. Of course that's common sense.
The point is that even here where some of the world's greatest players are produced the coaches recognize when a particular method works and is useful.
No matter what the method is, no matter who uses it, no matter how successful they are with it there will always be knockers. It almost has to be that way for balance. There is no way to have a world with universal agreement.
Just think about it like this.
In all the interviews you have ever seen with professional players how often are they asked about how they aim?
Try next to never.
Go back four years ago and TAR did an hour with Shane and aiming didn't come up once.
But the reason Shane was asked and why he responded is because of the fact that there has been so much negativity put out by the anti-aiming system crowd. Because of that the pro-aiming system crowd has looked for every nugget they can find to prove that professional players also use aiming systems.
So now we end up four years later with a climate where it's ok to ask Shane how he aims because it's deemed to be worthy of talking about and not a taboo subject any more. And that is directly because of the so-called naysayers. And yes their tactics and remarks have been utterly crappy and they have spewed plenty of spiteful and hateful commentary, as have we at times.
But, at the end of the day, we won. We have proven what we set out to prove and that is that non-standard, non-ghost ball aiming methods are valid and they work. And not because of subconscious adjustments but because they FORCE the player to get on the right line so that the player can then focus on the delivery.
Top coaches around the world use and teach these methods and top players use them. So don't sweat the haters, don't sweat the people who still cling to the idea that it's snake-oil. They have said everything they can say to discredit aiming systems in general and everything they can say to disparage those who teach those aiming systems.
But at the end of the day they haven't debunked the systems or the teachers and the pros speaking out that they use systems or methods to aim that aren't just "feel" proves what we have said all along.
So celebrate that. Don't give any of the naysayers any more power by getting in the mud with them.
What aiming system are those Chinese ladies team using John ?
Why don't you ask them.
Here's my understanding of why Shane was asked.
Fast Lenny sent the question to Justin to ask Shane during the TAR interview. Fast Lenny sent the question because (1) he (Fast Lenny) learned a ferrule/stick aiming method not long ago from an acquaintance or friend, (2) he heard that Shane used a ferrule/stick aiming method, and (3) he wanted to know whether the two methods were in fact the same.
John,
Please note;...Not trying to violate our fragile "truce", but can you please name ONE top player, who does not revert to 'feel', when the chips are down ?..
All those "systems", go out the window, and they rely on "PURE FEEL" without hesitation... Get me just ONE, to say they don't...(including Darren Appleton)
Not trying to flame, just trying to be realistic...Aiming systems are fine...(for APA 3 players..)..Gives them a goal..
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Thanks for the link.
This sentiment comes up a lot, and I don't like it. The truth is, there is absolutely no basis whatsoever for you to say "maybe some of the non-believers will quiet down..."
Assuming he does use the system, why don't you assume that the system is in fact the thing making him miss when he does miss?? I don't think anybody has a reasonable answer to that question. Put another way, maybe when Shane "forces" his system onto a shot (as opposed to 100% feel), is precisely WHEN he misses.
We miss because we are human, a blink of an eye of the lack of focus and you can miss and as the pockets get smaller the percentages go up that you might miss a ball. You will know if you read my other post I said that there are no guarantees you will make every ball just because you know a system and where to aim. You still need to have good mechanics, stay down on the shot, step into the shot correctly so your alignment is right among many other things that go into making a pool ball go into a pocket.
It is working for me, like I said I have 6 years in the poolroom, 1 year with this system so I am a relative new player compared to most and its the biggest jump I have seen in my game and those around me are shocked how someones game can jump up 2-3 balls just like that but its also a good deal of time working on other things too. I still have a long road ahead in reaching my goals in this game but the system sure helped me and probably knocked a few years off reaching that goal. I just think we all need to be a little more open minded in this game, I do not know about other systems but this one is working for me and its tough to argue with results.
Shane is one of the best players in the world, he uses an aiming method-system-guide, whatever you want to call it. I believe many players do and if I went to Derby I might go around with a camera and ask 50 pros if they are feel or system players, we might be surprised. I try to stay out of the aiming system threads and think those who go crazy in those threads should just go out and play pool, its fruitless really to bother because some people will stand firm and go down with the ship, nothing will change their minds because they are closed.
I do not mind explaining what I learned and some people have tried it and saw that it works, its a matter of table time (practice) and getting all the shots down in your memory bank after that. A system is not for everyone, some people just cannot put their minds around it or do not want to take the time to get it just like I am with CTE and some of the other ones out there that I have seen. This one works for me and I do not want to look at other ones and get screwed up or have a headache so I understand how the feel players feel about systems in a way.
To be honest after learning this system my mind is closed because of the results I have seen and knowing it works so I trust it 100%, if you do not trust what your doing 100% then good luck having positive results. If your playing pool and are playing well and improving then keep doing what works for you, if your not getting any better then you should try new things and see if it helps, be open minded and give it a chance. I am not trying to force this method down any of your throats, do what you want and have fun with the game but if you have tried it and see results or that it works then great.
Correct, I had heard he was using a stick aiming, it was called a shaft method by the guy who taught me so I thought it might be the same. I was curious to hear him describe it and he did to a tee. Should we all aim this way, obviously not, different strokes for different folks so to say.
Correct, I had heard he was using a stick aiming, it was called a shaft method by the guy who taught me so I thought it might be the same. I was curious to hear him describe it and he did to a tee. Should we all aim this way, obviously not, different strokes for different folks so to say.
Hey Lenny, when you and I play our all-around, you will have to shoot with a slip on ferrule/tip like they put on bar cues. All your shots will be off that thickness
These aiming systems are BS. There is no short cut for shot memory and practice. Idiots keep looking for a short cut to be a pro, PRACTICE..There is no short cut.
John,
Please note;...Not trying to violate our fragile "truce", but can you please name ONE top player, who does not revert to 'feel', when the chips are down ?..
All those "systems", go out the window, and they rely on "PURE FEEL" without hesitation... Get me just ONE, to say they don't...(including Darren Appleton)
Not trying to flame, just trying to be realistic...Aiming systems are fine...(for APA 3 players..)..Gives them a goal..
Really, when the chips are down is when they are more likely to use it. Nothing calms the nerves like the feeling of confidence knowing the shot is dead center. Long live PRO-ONE.
P.S. stick to your old school ways, nobody cares.
Right, there is no short cut to being a pro.
Wrong, there is a short cut to pocketing balls.
pvc lou, I don't know if you remember the movie "Beetlejuice" where you weren't suppose to say the name "Betelgeuse" three times or you'd get Michael Keaton in white face, but around here try saying the words "aiming system" and "snake oil" in the same sentence and you get pretty much the same effect, lol.
Lou Figueroa
Correct, I had heard he was using a stick aiming, it was called a shaft method by the guy who taught me so I thought it might be the same. I was curious to hear him describe it and he did to a tee. Should we all aim this way, obviously not, different strokes for different folks so to say.
Same here lenny when i learned this in the midwest they called it S.A.M. stick aiming method.
The nutzzzzz,
-Greyghost
Well, I certainly can't act like a saint, since I've said some things and am not exactly on board with the aiming systems. They're for some people, not all, just like tips and sticks and LD shafts and so on.
I know he's better than bad decisions and a bad stroke on his average days. We all have off times.. I've had a few when they mattered - APA singles and the regional BCA singles. Everybody's got a lot to say.. well, a lot of people have a lot to say, regardless of their skill. I'm getting use to dealing with blow-hards, being a barbox APA player, who plays off-handed, doesn't take lessons, blah blah blah. I stick by my guns in that I will watch pretty much anybody play the game, looking for something to learn. That also goes for people that I agree with or not and so on.
$200 to go 3 and out? The last BCA tournament cost me about: $50 entry, $150 lodging, $50 in gas and my last few vacation days.. to go 2 and out. Breaking even playing much better players afterwards? Priceless.
You guys can continue running round and round.. I just wanted to try to interject a little calm. A lot of people would probably have better reputations if it weren't for things like this, myself included.
And the link was to Mr. 400's 154-ball run.
I think after a while, especially once attaining a high level of ability, anything that you do can pretty much fall under the definition of a system, due to the repetition of the actions.
Thanks, Banks. You know, some guys will never get any of that. I watched Gabe Owens at the DCC 14.1 Challenge one year and even with a dozen tries he only got out of the first rack, like once. Nor will they get the point of getting out from behind their keyboards and getting into a tournament. To them it's: big deal, entry fee, random draw. They don't understand the value.
Playing pool in a tournament is a unique experience, unlike playing pool at any other time. The conditions are different, your competitors are unknown, as are their skill levels and strategies. There are distractions, there's pressure, and you must adjust to all of this immediately. It's an interesting test of what you think you know.
Ferinstance, you may think you know how to kick three rails. But under tournament conditions, it really is the acid test. Do you really know how to instantly calculate the path the cue ball must take, the right amount of spin, the right speed, and compensate for the new cushions, cloth, and balls? You either know how to do it, or you don't. Whether you do or not is out there for the whole world to see, and there's no hiding what you can and can't do. At an even more basic level, are the simple shots you think you should be able to make. During a tournament you may learn that there are a whole slew of shots you thought you knew, but can't execute on demand. I'm not talking about really tough shots, I'm talking about shots that, perhaps you thought you could make 10 out of 10, but actually can’t. Maybe going to play in a tournament is like getting dressed in the dark and then you go out into the bright sunlight and discover that you've got socks on that don't match. And so, playing in a tournament can alert you to things you should work on.
A tournament, because of the severity of the test, also let's you see what works and what does not. Tournaments provide you with a great "where the rubber meets the road" venue. Kinda like taking you little hot rod that you've lovingly been tinkering with for a spin on the Mercedes-Benz test track in Stuttgart. A tournament is also an opportunity to see a wide variety of approaches to the game. You get to see shots that you don't play regularly so you can then practice them and make them part of your personal arsenal. That's another great learning opportunity.
Lastly, I think playing in a tournament, imbues you with a sense of confidence you can't get any other way. Stepping into "the arena" and taking on all comers on a level playing field, so to speak, gives you a very accurate sense of where your game and you yourself as a competitor stand in the universe of pool players.
Of course, like I said, there are some guys that will never get any of that. But for the rest of youze, perhaps you’ll to jump into a tournament in the near future, or at least the next time you have the opportunity. It won't be easy, it might not be cheap, and it will take time, effort, and courage on your part. No, I'm not saying everyone should sign up for the next Open, (though there are some of you that should). I'm saying there are tournaments all over the place that, at some level or another, will let you experience both the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. More significantly, it will give you a great way to learn so many different but related things. If you don't compete in a tournament now and again, and test yourself and your game, you're cheating yourself.
Lou Figueroa
Why isn't Lou a pro?
Do not over complicate how shane uses his system, I have used a very similar system in the past before pro1. All he is doing, is using the system for getting his body in the proper position to move into the shot.
take cte/pro1, there are 2 lines going from the cb to the ob to get you into the proper position and get on the contact point. shane is using the ctel to get himself into position and using feel to find the contact point once hes in good body position.
take a look at Lou Figawhatever, he can play against tons of pro's but he can never play like one! even though he has shot a million balls. He has plateaued for the last 30 years because he was never willing to get past ghost ball shooting and was never bright enough to find a way to advance himself
This pod cast shane did was a huge bump in knowledge for pool because it has shown you must have some kind of system to play a high pro level game and if you dont have one you will be on a plateau like Lou Figawhatever for 30 years and trash things like pro1 that he cant understand because he is set in his ways and not willing to accept advance ideas. I am betting his personality is his downfall since no pro's were willing to help him and if i were him i would stop bragging about the pro's he has played since none of them thought well enough of him to help out
I tried, I really did.
IGNORE
Jeff Livingston