Teaching our children to gamble/hussle

[JAMSGOLF]

Thanks. I'm not "thin-skinned" by any stretch of the imagination...however, when it comes to my child, I get pretty defensive and that one particular comment by him really seemed to affect me negatively...

Thanks...

Jason

Don't worry, that kybill is the one with the problem, not you. He's not welcome here if he's going to act like that.

You certainly haven't done anything wrong.

 

[cueandcushion]

But couldn't the player have gotten a baby sitter for his 8 year old daughter. Sheesh!

A pool player that cant afford a babysitter? Doesn't exist!

 

[BrokeHustler]

How about it is none of your business! Let someone teach their kid what ever they want, it's their kid right? jeeezzz

 

[3andstop]

How about it is none of your business! Let someone teach their kid what ever they want, it's their kid right? jeeezzz

Yeah .... that's right, whatever they want, it's their kids, teach em anything. In fact break out the dope, break out the booze, hell lets throw a few xxx rated DVDs in the old player. What the f@$#. F#$# moral values, F@#$ responsibility to society, F$#@ all this right from wrong $h!t the rest of the world fights and dies for ...

Hey, we might as well teach em the benefits of our great welfare system while we're at it. What the f@#@. With a little effort maybe we can create a complete waste to the world.

But really, all kidding aside, those things could be positive for society. Think about it ... if we could do a real good job of making a mess out of our kids, we would create job security for so many people from social workers, to police officers, to judges .. shoot all the way to alarm system installers and rap singers. :killingme:

The world really does need its waste too, so TEACH ON... TEACH ON. :thumbup:

 

[jason]

More food for thought:

Two-thirds of the adult population placed some kind of bet last year I'm surprised it's not higher considering the SuperBowl. I'm sure its high with the folks from AZ.

Gambling profits in casinos are more than $30 billion while lotteries are about 17 billion annually Why don't our schools look as nice as casinos now? Hummmm?


"Players" with household incomes under $10,000 bet nearly three times as much on lotteries as those with incomes over $50,000 The desperate, poor, stupid, young and nieve getting poorer by the minute. Good bye middle class.

In 1973 state lotteries had $2 billion in sales. By 1997, the revenues reached $34 billion Where does this money go?

Gambling among young people is on the increase: 42 percent of 14-year-olds, 49 percent of 15-year-olds, 63 percent of 16-year-olds, 76 percent of 18-year-olds. Follow the herd son, you will be fine!

Internet gambling has nearly doubled every year since 1997 – in 2001 it exceed $2 billion Hear that sucking sound now Mr. Perot? Thats all our gambling money going to the Cayman Islands

According to the American Psychological Association the Internet could be as addictive as alcohol, drugs, and gambling Duh...because of the porn!

After casinos opened in Atlantic City, the total number of crimes within a thirty-mile radius increased 100 percent Gambling is good for society?

The average debt incurred by a male pathological gambler in the U.S. is between $55,000 and $90,000 (it is $15,000 for female gamblers) Pssst! Hey buddy, can I borrow 10G's? I'm gonna win big this time, I swear!

The average rate of divorce for problem gamblers is nearly double that of non-gamblers Momma needs a new pair of shoes, or I need a new place to stay!

The suicide rate for pathological gamblers is twenty times higher than for non-gamblers (one in five attempts suicide) Good bye cruel casino!

Sixty-five percent of pathological gamblers commit crimes to support their gambling habit Enough commentary by me...your turn to comment.

 

[dr9ball]

We are today at a transition point for what defines success. Today's entrepreneurial youth will succeed by being committed to the good of all through change. IOW, a person won't be measured by how deep their pockets are. Money shouldn't be a measuring stick for success.

I would like to believe this but I think similar assertions have been put forth by every new generation of parents about their children and their children's children. I believe it is a defining characteristic of humanity to project how we would like to see things change on future generations and assume that because we think it, it will come to pass. Sadly history seems to prove this wrong in all too many cases. World War I was called the war to end all wars because that generation thought their children and grand children would have learned from WWI. Then of course WWII happened.

 

[jason]

I would like to believe this but I think similar assertions have been put forth by every new generation of parents about their children and their children's children. I believe it is a defining characteristic of humanity to project how we would like to see things change on future generations and assume that because we think it, it will come to pass. Sadly history seems to prove this wrong in all too many cases. World War I was called the war to end all wars because that generation thought their children and grand children would have learned from WWI. Then of course WWII happened.

... and the Korean War, Vietnam, Soviet-Afgan War, Gulf War I, Gulf War II. It will go on and on. Man is the biggest predator on Earth. We kill more beings than any other including our own kind! Nothing changes but the techniques, tactics and the weapons. The nature of man will probably never change and there is always a new generations waiting to make the same mistakes over again.

Gambling is no different. There will always be someone who thinks they can beat the system, cheat the system or plain just get lucky.

 

[trustyrusty]

More food for thought:

Two-thirds of the adult population placed some kind of bet last year I'm surprised it's not higher considering the SuperBowl. I'm sure its high with the folks from AZ.

Gambling profits in casinos are more than $30 billion while lotteries are about 17 billion annually Why don't our schools look as nice as casinos now? Hummmm?


"Players" with household incomes under $10,000 bet nearly three times as much on lotteries as those with incomes over $50,000 The desperate, poor, stupid, young and nieve getting poorer by the minute. Good bye middle class.

In 1973 state lotteries had $2 billion in sales. By 1997, the revenues reached $34 billion Where does this money go?

Gambling among young people is on the increase: 42 percent of 14-year-olds, 49 percent of 15-year-olds, 63 percent of 16-year-olds, 76 percent of 18-year-olds. Follow the herd son, you will be fine!

Internet gambling has nearly doubled every year since 1997 – in 2001 it exceed $2 billion Hear that sucking sound now Mr. Perot? Thats all our gambling money going to the Cayman Islands

According to the American Psychological Association the Internet could be as addictive as alcohol, drugs, and gambling Duh...because of the porn!

After casinos opened in Atlantic City, the total number of crimes within a thirty-mile radius increased 100 percent Gambling is good for society?

The average debt incurred by a male pathological gambler in the U.S. is between $55,000 and $90,000 (it is $15,000 for female gamblers) Pssst! Hey buddy, can I borrow 10G's? I'm gonna win big this time, I swear!

The average rate of divorce for problem gamblers is nearly double that of non-gamblers Momma needs a new pair of shoes, or I need a new place to stay!

The suicide rate for pathological gamblers is twenty times higher than for non-gamblers (one in five attempts suicide) Good bye cruel casino!

Sixty-five percent of pathological gamblers commit crimes to support their gambling habit Enough commentary by me...your turn to comment.

ok. ok. ok! Look, the true problem here is NOT gambling. It is SELF CONTROL. Teach the kids how to have self control, and not only will they be a helluva lot less likely to become a pathological gambler; it'd likely help the SEVERE obesity problem amoung young-uns in the US, help the next generation NOT to be in debt WAY over their heads like this generation is, and HOPEFULLY could lead to a future government that doesn't spend gazillions of dollars that they don't have as well.

I know MANY things have been deemed psychological or some type of disorders, and afflictions that can be only helped by the medical community (PLEASE!!), so self control is useless in those situations (RIGHT!!)....like every kid that is a little hyper and burning off all that youthful energy and doesn't pay attention very well in Miss Adams' 2nd grade class MUST have ADD or ADHD, etc. etc. etc. Heck, maybe little Billy has got the Jimmy Legs...lol, better get him some extensive medical care, and prescriptions for that....then he'll sit still or be in a coma in class.

Sorry, I'll get more to the point. How many of the problems that seem to worsen every single year would be dramatically smaller if parents would be better at parenting? Teaching self control, doling out some REAL discipline, and probably most importantly; having kids see that ultimately they are responsible for their own actions (not blaming peers, a bad teacher, lackadaisical parents, etc.). Hasn't everyone had someone else tempt them into something they shouldn't do? Say NO, don't just jump in feet first and blame the tempter afterwards!!!

 

[jason]

ok. ok. ok! Look, the true problem here is NOT gambling. It is SELF CONTROL. Teach the kids how to have self control, and not only will they be a helluva lot less likely to become a pathological gambler; it'd likely help the SEVERE obesity problem amoung young-uns in the US, help the next generation NOT to be in debt WAY over their heads like this generation is, and HOPEFULLY could lead to a future government that doesn't spend gazillions of dollars that they don't have as well.

I know MANY things have been deemed psychological or some type of disorders, and afflictions that can be only helped by the medical community (PLEASE!!), so self control is useless in those situations (RIGHT!!)....like every kid that is a little hyper and burning off all that youthful energy and doesn't pay attention very well in Miss Adams' 2nd grade class MUST have ADD or ADHD, etc. etc. etc. Heck, maybe little Billy has got the Jimmy Legs...lol, better get him some extensive medical care, and prescriptions for that....then he'll sit still or be in a coma in class.

Sorry, I'll get more to the point. How many of the problems that seem to worsen every single year would be dramatically smaller if parents would be better at parenting? Teaching self control, doling out some REAL discipline, and probably most importantly; having kids see that ultimately they are responsible for their own actions (not blaming peers, a bad teacher, lackadaisical parents, etc.). Hasn't everyone had someone else tempt them into something they shouldn't do? Say NO, don't just jump in feet first and blame the tempter afterwards!!!

hahaha...you don't really know where I stand on this point, do you?

 

[trustyrusty]

hahaha...you don't really know where I stand on this point, do you?

no, I do, I only quoted your post due to the good points it made....wasn't trying to convince YOU. Though throwing pathological in front of something doesn't sit well with me. You hear that and assume that there is no way the "afflicted" can stop himself from doing whatever it is that he is "pathological" about....which may be true in VERY rare instances, but the easy thing to do is label many who can overcome it themselves (but simply choose not to).

the victim mentality that society falls further and further into (thanks Oprah) just bugs the hell outta me. How many kids became GREAT leaders, business folks, etc. after having crappy upbringings, less than ideal surroundings, and even less than stellar education?? TONS. Yet we look for every excuse possible for the ones who don't. Maddening!! You do something idiotic, you were an IDIOT! Try to find a solution, and overcome it instead of spending time pointing fingers for where the blame should lie....

 

[Donny Lutz]

Playing pool, gambling and hustling are three different things!!
Not all pool players gamble, not even the world champions.
Not all gamblers hustle.
Not all hustlers succeed.
Is playing in a pool tournament gambling? When you pay an entry fee, you are placing a bet on yourself against a field of players. Courts in many states have ruled that betting on your own skills is NOT gambling. At various times in my life, I've been a pool player, a gambler and a hustler. Hustling was at times risky, scary and not often that profitable. "Gambling" was at times rewarding, but is a separate skill from playing. Playing is done for a variety of reasons, mostly for the love of the game. Playing is sometimes very frustrating, but can be fun, a good way to make friends, and great mental exercise if taken seriously. Gambling is a way to profit while having fun. Hustling is like capitalism: gain at the expense of others using dishonesty and even cheating. I've made many friends over the years playing and some by gambling, but I can't remember ever making a friend by hustling. The choices are often simple, rather like choosing between lying and honesty, greed and sharing, domination and cooperation.
I love the game of pool and take great pleasure in helping others learn to improve and enjoy the game. I've never won more than $1,000 gambling, or lost more than $300. I once had a knife pulled on me over a $2 bet, because someone thought I was hustling them. Pool, gambling and hustling all seem to be addictive. I have a dear friend who has made many thousands playing pool, but lost it all and more playing cards. He is almost masochistic the way he constantly loses. I see this often in hustlers as well, - almost as if they seek the highest risk as self-punishment for some ancient sin. After 56 pears of playing, I don't need to gamble to prove anything, and I gave up hustling many years ago. Now I play a little and teach because I love and respect the exquisite games of pool and billiards.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl

 

[jason]

Hustling is like capitalism:

Hustling is like FRAUD!

Gambling is more like capitalism.

There is nothing wrong, illegal, immoral about capitalism. It is driven by supply and demand. As long as there are choices (protected by democracy) the customer always has other options and usually several.

 

[JoeyA]

More food for thought:

Two-thirds of the adult population placed some kind of bet last year I'm surprised it's not higher considering the SuperBowl. I'm sure its high with the folks from AZ.

Gambling profits in casinos are more than $30 billion while lotteries are about 17 billion annually Why don't our schools look as nice as casinos now? Hummmm?


"Players" with household incomes under $10,000 bet nearly three times as much on lotteries as those with incomes over $50,000 The desperate, poor, stupid, young and nieve getting poorer by the minute. Good bye middle class.

In 1973 state lotteries had $2 billion in sales. By 1997, the revenues reached $34 billion Where does this money go?

Gambling among young people is on the increase: 42 percent of 14-year-olds, 49 percent of 15-year-olds, 63 percent of 16-year-olds, 76 percent of 18-year-olds. Follow the herd son, you will be fine!

Internet gambling has nearly doubled every year since 1997 – in 2001 it exceed $2 billion Hear that sucking sound now Mr. Perot? Thats all our gambling money going to the Cayman Islands

According to the American Psychological Association the Internet could be as addictive as alcohol, drugs, and gambling Duh...because of the porn!

After casinos opened in Atlantic City, the total number of crimes within a thirty-mile radius increased 100 percent Gambling is good for society?

The average debt incurred by a male pathological gambler in the U.S. is between $55,000 and $90,000 (it is $15,000 for female gamblers) Pssst! Hey buddy, can I borrow 10G's? I'm gonna win big this time, I swear!

The average rate of divorce for problem gamblers is nearly double that of non-gamblers Momma needs a new pair of shoes, or I need a new place to stay!

The suicide rate for pathological gamblers is twenty times higher than for non-gamblers (one in five attempts suicide) Good bye cruel casino!

Sixty-five percent of pathological gamblers commit crimes to support their gambling habit Enough commentary by me...your turn to comment.

I give it a WOW. Just curious where the info came from.

 

[JoeyA]

Playing pool, gambling and hustling are three different things!!
Not all pool players gamble, not even the world champions.
Not all gamblers hustle.
Not all hustlers succeed.
Is playing in a pool tournament gambling? When you pay an entry fee, you are placing a bet on yourself against a field of players. Courts in many states have ruled that betting on your own skills is NOT gambling. At various times in my life, I've been a pool player, a gambler and a hustler. Hustling was at times risky, scary and not often that profitable. "Gambling" was at times rewarding, but is a separate skill from playing. Playing is done for a variety of reasons, mostly for the love of the game. Playing is sometimes very frustrating, but can be fun, a good way to make friends, and great mental exercise if taken seriously. Gambling is a way to profit while having fun. Hustling is like capitalism: gain at the expense of others using dishonesty and even cheating. I've made many friends over the years playing and some by gambling, but I can't remember ever making a friend by hustling. The choices are often simple, rather like choosing between lying and honesty, greed and sharing, domination and cooperation.
I love the game of pool and take great pleasure in helping others learn to improve and enjoy the game. I've never won more than $1,000 gambling, or lost more than $300. I once had a knife pulled on me over a $2 bet, because someone thought I was hustling them. Pool, gambling and hustling all seem to be addictive. I have a dear friend who has made many thousands playing pool, but lost it all and more playing cards. He is almost masochistic the way he constantly loses. I see this often in hustlers as well, - almost as if they seek the highest risk as self-punishment for some ancient sin. After 56 pears of playing, I don't need to gamble to prove anything, and I gave up hustling many years ago. Now I play a little and teach because I love and respect the exquisite games of pool and billiards.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl

If you had to guess, what percentage of gamblers never hustle?

If you had to guess, what percentage of hustlers succeed?

 

[jason]

I give it a WOW. Just curious where the info came from.

This is the source...you decide if they are factual or not.

http://www.overcominggambling.com/facts.html

 

[book collector]

I would not dream of teaching my children to gamble
or even enter a pool room
the culture is the lowest of any i know

honesty,integrity,even common decency are mocked
the gamblers,especially the so called professionals almost always die broke

seldom does one make money without dumping,even his childhood friends

the work ethic that leads to success is the antithesis of the pool culture

i earned my way through college and probably kept more than any single
pool player i know,i traveled with the most famous and saw them die broken in spirit and finances


i can hardly believe anyone could seriously think it could possibly help a young person

the only lesson to be learned is,don't do it

I agree with most of what you say, I must question when you say it is the lowest culture you know of, whats the difference between two lawyers who go to court and one has connections with the judge and the other wants some too? Do you think the truth will matter? How about your stockbroker whos boss tells him to dump all his or one of his biggest clients shares of a company that he knows is going to tank on you?
What about the politician who takes a "contribution"{bribe} from a corporation and then votes on whether or not they are polluting a river or are putting cancer causing fumes in the air we breathe?
These people are "dumpers' in my opinion and they are a lot more corrupt than some guy that throws you in for your $200.00 bet. I don't condone that action either but compared to the consequences of their actions I don't see them as the worlds worst.
To the original post, I don't find the fact that a 6 year old wanted to bet on something that strange, I have 3 grown children and 10 grandchildren and each of them has their own "hustle" whether it's for candy or staying up late or whatever.
No one trained them, they pick it up from each other or from daycare or whatever.
I think the OP has a view of hustling as a glorious thing, a combat of wit and skills between one combatant and another and that the winner is "better" than the loser.
Not everyone has spent as much time in pool rooms and around pool players as some of us and so they have not become as jaded as we have.
I know some pool players who are great human beings, I also know some who are human trash.
Pool has little to do with what type of person they are.
Pool is a tough life, most players live on the edge of poverty all their life.
Is it surprising that some start dumping people, or selling pot, or becoming drunks or drug addicts.
I keep wondering what our society will be like in 10 or 15 years when everyone is trying to make a living playing poker.
All of these young people who never worked at a factory and won a million dollars will be busted the first time some slick catches them off base.
Do you think they will be going to some 8 dollar an hour job?
My guess is they will be knocking off little old ladies. Thats all they will be equipped for.

 

[Donny Lutz]

Hustling is like FRAUD!

Gambling is more like capitalism.

There is nothing wrong, illegal, immoral about capitalism. It is driven by supply and demand. As long as there are choices (protected by democracy) the customer always has other options and usually several.

Capitalism on paper may be great, but historically it's the process of taking from the poor to create the rich. Difficult to say what effect democracy might have on it, as there is not and has never been a pure democracy on this planet. Corporations have been controlling the "democratic" process for a very long time, and thus create monopolies and increase poverty.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl

 

[Donny Lutz]

If you had to guess, what percentage of gamblers never hustle?

If you had to guess, what percentage of hustlers succeed?

%??
I suppose pretty much all pool hall gamblers have tried their hand at a little hustling, but it is less common among world class players. I think the percentage of hustlers who make a decent living on the felt is rather small.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
Player: 1987 Joss Custom w/ Pred original 314, Moori M
Breaker: Pechauer
Jumper: Pred-air

 

[JAM]

%??
I suppose pretty much all pool hall gamblers have tried their hand at a little hustling, but it is less common among world class players. I think the percentage of hustlers who make a decent living on the felt is rather small.
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
Player: 1987 Joss Custom w/ Pred original 314, Moori M
Breaker: Pechauer
Jumper: Pred-air

I don't think there's a pool player on the face of the earth who doesn't have a little larceny in them.

 

[MikeM]

Please understand what I intended to say......

I am not advocating to teach pool gambling to your kids so that they can become pool gamblers as a career.

My intentions were to expose them to pool gambling at the right time, so that they will be able to handle themselves better in matters outside of pool.

My example from earlier..... If your auto mechanic says you need $5,000 in repairs in order for your car to pass inspection, it is beneficial if you have the negotiating skills to bring that figure down. These "manipulation" skills can be learned in the pool room. And they can help you prevent from being hussled.

When you go to purchase a house, are you capable of negotiating the price? Are you able to influence the seller in any way?

Pool helps in these circumstances. It makes you smarter. You figure out ways to get what's best for you.

You will learn quickly not to bet when two strangers are playing each, because you will probably get dumped. And this will help you in real life. You will be real careful when co-signing a lease with someone you don't know too well. You will be real careful going 50/50 into a new business with someone.

You'll learn that players need to post up before they play. And in the same manner, you'll learn quickly that it's a bad idea to take a personal check for your collection of gold coins without seeing if it cashes first.

You'll learn about the guys that you can never beat because they always come up with some sort of an excuse not to pay.

There's tons of things to learn. It is not about becoming a gambler. It is being exposed to what it's all about. The kid doesn't even have to gamble, he's just observing and learning.

I hope I have made myself more clear.

At the risk of feeding a troll, I will ask one simple question: Do you think there might be other ways to teach children the same life skills other than teaching them to gamble at pool? Might these other ways be preferable to gambling?

MM...sorry that was two questions.