Tell me your brooklyn butch stories

kvinbrwr

kvinbrwr

Skee Ball Monster Playa
Gold Member
My pal Joe, junkseceret here at AZ, was at Ernie Gutierrez's shop the other day and met a character named Brooklyn Butch. Joe came away from that meeting telling me great Brooklyn Butch stories. I did a search and he has been mentioned here at AZ quite a bit (mostly by Jay) and sounds like a classic pool guy. Anyone care to tell some Brooklyn Butch stories? Or 7-11 stories ? What and where was the 7-11? I've never heard of it. The Den? What's that?

Just a cautionary note. It seems this Brooklyn Butch fellow might sometimes read AZ for whatever that's worth.

Thanks

Kevin
 
Butch

Well, it's not exactly a Brooklyn Butch story, but I did meet the guy once in the early '70s in Santa Monica. The "Den" you're asking about was actually two rooms, both called Ye Billiard Den, one in Santa Monica and one on the edge of Hollywood; that's where I met Butch. We just struck up a conversation at the bar; he asked first if I knew Pancho, then Billy Incardona, and he could not find enough good things to say about the latter. "I wouldn't bet on any other pool player. He's the only honest one." Stuff like that. He seemed like a perfectly reasonable guy to me, and he asked me to send his regards to Pancho.

When I did that, Panch's immediate reaction was, "I hope you didn't get out of line with him. He clears out entire bars." What an odd thing to be the very first aspect of you that people remember.

711, by the way, was one of midtown Manhattan's most famous rooms, 711 Seventh Avenue, at 47th. Ervolino, Jersey Red, and Bob the Destroyer were just part of its legendary status; NO road player (except maybe Lassiter) walked out of there with the cash. GF
 
kvinbrwr said:
My pal Joe, junkseceret here at AZ, was at Ernie Gutierrez's shop the other day and met a character named Brooklyn Butch. Joe came away from that meeting telling me great Brooklyn Butch stories. I did a search and he has been mentioned here at AZ quite a bit (mostly by Jay) and sounds like a classic pool guy. Anyone care to tell some Brooklyn Butch stories? Or 7-11 stories ? What and where was the 7-11? I've never heard of it. The Den? What's that?

Just a cautionary note. It seems this Brooklyn Butch fellow might sometimes read AZ for whatever that's worth.

Thanks

Kevin
Click to expand...

I've got a great Brooklyn Butch story in my book. He actually retrieved a stolen Szamboti cue for me from 3,000 miles away. Just by telling the guy who stole it that if he didn't send it back, he (Butch) was going to get on a plane and come find him. This frightened the thief so much he shipped the cue back the next day.

No Lou, this is not a fairy tale! :rolleyes:

Something very few people know about Butch is that he is also a master craftsman with wood. He makes, among other things, the finest picture frames you ever saw. All from exotic woods. Anything he makes is grade A.

Butch trained like a boxer all his life and always had a heavy bag on his premises somewhere. He would run a few miles, hit the bag for 45 minutes or so and then do another 30-45 minutes of calisthenics. His hands were fast as lightning and he could knock someone out with either hand. He's still looking good at 60!
 
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jay helfert said:
I've got a great Brooklyn Butch story in my book. He actually retrieved a stolen Szamboti cue for me from 3,000 miles away. Just by telling the guy who stole it that if he didn't send it back, he (Butch) was going to get on a plane and come find him. This frightened the thief so much he shipped the cue back the next day.

No Lou, this is not a fairy tale! :rolleyes:

Something very few people know about Butch is that he is also a master craftsman with wood. He makes, among other things, the finest picture frames you ever saw. All from exotic woods. Anything he makes is grade A.

Butch trained like a boxer all his life and always had a heavy bag on his premises somewhere. He would run a few miles, hit the bag for 45 minutes or so and then do another 30-45 minutes of calisthenics. His hands were fast as lightning and he could knock someone out with either hand. He's still looking good at 60!
Click to expand...

I remember that story. I loved your book. OK, I'm going to go meet Butch.

Thanks

Kevin
 
George Fels said:
Well, it's not exactly a Brooklyn Butch story, but I did meet the guy once in the early '70s in Santa Monica. The "Den" you're asking about was actually two rooms, both called Ye Billiard Den, one in Santa Monica and one on the edge of Hollywood; that's where I met Butch. We just struck up a conversation at the bar; he asked first if I knew Pancho, then Billy Incardona, and he could not find enough good things to say about the latter. "I wouldn't bet on any other pool player. He's the only honest one." Stuff like that. He seemed like a perfectly reasonable guy to me, and he asked me to send his regards to Pancho.

When I did that, Panch's immediate reaction was, "I hope you didn't get out of line with him. He clears out entire bars." What an odd thing to be the very first aspect of you that people remember.

711, by the way, was one of midtown Manhattan's most famous rooms, 711 Seventh Avenue, at 47th. Ervolino, Jersey Red, and Bob the Destroyer were just part of its legendary status; NO road player (except maybe Lassiter) walked out of there with the cash. GF
Click to expand...

George

Thanks for that. 711 sounds like the place.

This is the 3rd 2nd hand story I've heard of Butch's violent nature. Anybody see him go off first hand?

Thanks again

Kevin
 
Cuban Joe Valdez

kvinbrwr said:
My pal Joe, junkseceret here at AZ, was at Ernie Gutierrez's shop the other day and met a character named Brooklyn Butch. Joe came away from that meeting telling me great Brooklyn Butch stories. I did a search and he has been mentioned here at AZ quite a bit (mostly by Jay) and sounds like a classic pool guy. Anyone care to tell some Brooklyn Butch stories? Or 7-11 stories ? What and where was the 7-11? I've never heard of it. The Den? What's that?

Just a cautionary note. It seems this Brooklyn Butch fellow might sometimes read AZ for whatever that's worth.

Thanks

Kevin
Click to expand...

Coincidentally, I just got an email from Brooklyn Butch Fragone telling me he was at Ernie's shop (Ginacue). They were lamenting the passing of another legend, Cuban Joe Valdez. Butch is a fascinating wealth of pool history, stories, and little known facts. I'm almost afraid to call him on the phone because the call never takes less than one hour. He is almost as bad as one of his pal's, Brooklyn Jimmy. The last time I talked to Jimmy on the phone, the call lasted 3 hrs.

Beard
Whatever ridiculous war stories you might have heard about Brooklyn Butch are probably true. Tell him hello for me.
 
freddy the beard said:
Coincidentally, I just got an email from Brooklyn Butch Fragone telling me he was at Ernie's shop (Ginacue). They were lamenting the passing of another legend, Cuban Joe Valdez. Butch is a fascinating wealth of pool history, stories, and little known facts. I'm almost afraid to call him on the phone because the call never takes less than one hour. He is almost as bad as one of his pal's, Brooklyn Jimmy. The last time I talked to Jimmy on the phone, the call lasted 3 hrs.

Beard
Whatever ridiculous war stories you might have heard about Brooklyn Butch are probably true. Tell him hello for me.
Click to expand...

Freddy

I'm sorry to hear about Cuban Joe. I will tell Butch you said hello.

Thanks

Kevin
 
Hard to top

jay helfert said:
I've got a great Brooklyn Butch story in my book. He actually retrieved a stolen Szamboti cue for me from 3,000 miles away. Just by telling the guy who stole it that if he didn't send it back, he (Butch) was going to get on a plane and come find him. This frightened the thief so much he shipped the cue back the next day.

No Lou, this is not a fairy tale! :rolleyes:

Something very few people know about Butch is that he is also a master craftsman with wood. He makes, among other things, the finest picture frames you ever saw. All from exotic woods. Anything he makes is grade A.

Butch trained like a boxer all his life and always had a heavy bag on his premises somewhere. He would run a few miles, hit the bag for 45 minutes or so and then do another 30-45 minutes of calisthenics. His hands were fast as lightning and he could knock someone out with either hand. He's still looking good at 60!
Click to expand...

Jay, your Brooklyn Butch story is hard to top. But anyone who knows Butch would immediately nod, "Yeah, sure." You shoulda mentioned that the guy who stole it, The Whale, was himself a tush-hog.

Beard
 
The Whale

If it's Big Steve the Whale you're talking about, he had the heart of a flea, and was about as far from a tush-hog as you're going to get. GF
 
Fake tush hog

George Fels said:
If it's Big Steve the Whale you're talking about, he had the heart of a flea, and was about as far from a tush-hog as you're going to get. GF
Click to expand...

The Whale was a very large guy, Geo, and he tried to act like a hog. Not too many points lost for giving in to Butch.

Beard
 
Butch is in a poolroom one night in a black neighborhood. Various gangsters and outlaws are in there as well. His buddy Billy Kenyon is playing a black player for $200. 9-Ball, a Race To Eleven. Billy gets ahead 9-3 and the guy holding the money disappears (he's a brother too). Billy see what's happening and tells Butch he's getting screwed. Butch goes outside and rounds the guy up and drags him back inside the poolroom. He has a murderous look on his face and sits down right next to the guy.

Soon the match is over and Billy has won the money. The guy makes a break for the door and Butch yells, "No you don't!" He tackles the guy and drags him (literally) fighting and kicking back to the table. Now he grabs him by the throat and tells him to cough up the money. The guys pulls the money out of his pocket a little bit at a time. Billy is picking it up off the ground and counting it as it drops. When they have the full $400, Butch lets him go.

All the while, several black outlaws are watching the whole thing unfold. They don't look too happy either. One guy finally says to Butch, "You wouldn't try that with me." Butch turns and looks him right in the eye and says, "You want to try me out?" Now he looks around at all the black guys assembled together. Very loud he says, "Who's next! I'm beginning to like this place!" NO ONE says a word. Butch says, "That's what I thought." Turns to Billy and says, "Let's go." And they leave.

The next day I see Cecil at the poolroom. He wasn't there that night but he tells me all the brothers are talking about this crazy white guy. I told him I was there and it really came down that way. He was ready to take on the whole poolroom. He didn't care about guns or anything. Cecil says that those were some bad brothers, but they didn't know what to think about Butch.
 
jay helfert said:
Butch is in a poolroom one night in a black neighborhood. Various gangsters and outlaws are in there as well. His buddy Billy Kenyon is playing a black player for $200. 9-Ball, a Race To Eleven. Billy gets ahead 9-3 and the guy holding the money disappears (he's a brother too). Billy see what's happening and tells Butch he's getting screwed. Butch goes outside and rounds the guy up and drags him back inside the poolroom. He has a murderous look on his face and sits down right next to the guy.

Soon the match is over and Billy has won the money. The guy makes a break for the door and Butch yells, "No you don't!" He tackles the guy and drags him (literally) fighting and kicking back to the table. Now he grabs him by the throat and tells him to cough up the money. The guys pulls the money out of his pocket a little bit at a time. Billy is picking it up off the ground and counting it as it drops. When they have the full $400, Butch lets him go.

All the while, several black outlaws are watching the whole thing unfold. They don't look too happy either. One guy finally says to Butch, "You wouldn't try that with me." Butch turns and looks him right in the eye and says, "You want to try me out?" Now he looks around at all the black guys assembled together. Very loud he says, "Who's next! I'm beginning to like this place!" NO ONE says a word. Butch says, "That's what I thought." Turns to Billy and says, "Let's go." And they leave.

The next day I see Cecil at the poolroom. He wasn't there that night but he tells me all the brothers are talking about this crazy white guy. I told him I was there and it really came down that way. He was ready to take on the whole poolroom. He didn't care about guns or anything. Cecil says that those were some bad brothers, but they didn't know what to think about Butch.
Click to expand...

Jay

That is what I'm talking about!

Thanks for that.

More?

Thanks again

Kevin
 
Teaser

kvinbrwr said:
Jay

That is what I'm talking about!

Thanks for that.

More?

Thanks again

Kevin
Click to expand...

Im not going to tell the whole story but briefly, Butch got shot in the head, the shooter made the fatal mistake of only shooting him once. The scar is still visible.

Beard
 
kvinbrwr said:
My pal Joe, junkseceret here at AZ, was at Ernie Gutierrez's shop the other day and met a character named Brooklyn Butch. Joe came away from that meeting telling me great Brooklyn Butch stories. I did a search and he has been mentioned here at AZ quite a bit (mostly by Jay) and sounds like a classic pool guy. Anyone care to tell some Brooklyn Butch stories? Or 7-11 stories ? What and where was the 7-11? I've never heard of it. The Den? What's that?

Just a cautionary note. It seems this Brooklyn Butch fellow might sometimes read AZ for whatever that's worth.

Thanks

Kevin
Click to expand...

I know Gutierrez is a common name, but do you happen to know if this guy is from Brooklyn? I was in the military with a Marine named Gutierrez from Brooklyn. He was one tough guy.
 
alstl said:
I know Gutierrez is a common name, but do you happen to know if this guy is from Brooklyn? I was in the military with a Marine named Gutierrez from Brooklyn. He was one tough guy.
Click to expand...

Ernie is originally from South America.
 
alstl said:
I know Gutierrez is a common name, but do you happen to know if this guy is from Brooklyn? I was in the military with a Marine named Gutierrez from Brooklyn. He was one tough guy.
Click to expand...

My Gutierrez is from Cali, Colombia and at 68 he is also one tough cookie. I think he emigrated through NY but I'm doubting he has any relatives there now.

Thanks

Kevin
 
kvinbrwr said:
My pal Joe, junkseceret here at AZ, was at Ernie Gutierrez's shop the other day and met a character named Brooklyn Butch. Joe came away from that meeting telling me great Brooklyn Butch stories. I did a search and he has been mentioned here at AZ quite a bit (mostly by Jay) and sounds like a classic pool guy. Anyone care to tell some Brooklyn Butch stories? Or 7-11 stories ? What and where was the 7-11? I've never heard of it. The Den? What's that?

Just a cautionary note. It seems this Brooklyn Butch fellow might sometimes read AZ for whatever that's worth.

Thanks

Kevin
Click to expand...


I played out of The Golden Cue outside of Los Angeles and would take a trip to one of the pools rooms in Los Angeles from time to time.

I was in a pool room on Wilshire Blvd playing this guy some $5 snooker.
Someone who knew me came in and asked what I was doing. I told him we were playing $5 a game and I was three games up. He told me I was playing Brooklyn Butch and he was liable to knock me out and turn the table over on me if he thought I was hustling him.

We broke even and have been friends ever since.

I told this story to a guy named Larry Corrado from New York who played at the 7/11 and now played at the Golden Cue. He told me Butch was the bouncer at the 7/11 and it was one of the toughest rooms in New York.
 
Butch used to hang out in Hollywood at the Billiard Den in the 1970's. Cuban Joe, Crazy Bruce, Gene the Mechanic, a guy named George, they were all regulars. I came in when I could and always got a game there.

I got to know him a little there. He was actually a friendly guy, loved to talk, and a friend to pool players, but an enemy to smack talking rail birds. He more or less befriended me. I knew he liked to come off as a tough guy, but I actually found him to be intelligent and quite pleasant.

I don't know how Butch plays - we never played. My assumption was that he was a good "B" player but he liked hanging around players and gambling cheap, etc.

Butch was like a character in a movie. He reminded me a lot of "Sach" in the Bowery Boys movies.

Anyway, I was dating a girl who lived in a run-down apartment house near Highland and Franklin. Hollywood was kind of a nasty place in the 1970's. There were hookers, drugs, and a lot of street life types right in that area.

One night I was leaving her apartment late, when this creepy looking druggie guy comes through the apartment area. I see Butch charge up and I say "Butch". He does a double-take and says "Hi Chris. I'm the manager here, excuse me." then he proceeds to chase down the guy and in the booming voice says "don't let me see you here again". The guy says "oh yeah? Who are you?" . His mouth opened about a foot wide, he charged forward and booms "I'm from Brooklyn, where you have to be tough. I'm Butch, that's who I am!". That loud voice would scare the crap out of anyone.

That was it - the guy took off running. Butch turns to me and laughs.

Anyway, I always found Butch to be a perfect gentleman and I like him. I ran into him a few years ago and he called me a few times. It was fun to catch up.

Chris
 
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