Tenons/ferrules

Hi,

Not to disagree with anyone's desire to use threaded ferrules but here is an observation and my opinion based on almost 12 years of doing cue repair at my pool hall and my cue shop.

It has been my observation that the majority of the cracked ferrules I have repaired were threaded. While I use Safety glasses as a general practice, when doing cracked ferrules it is critical because most times a segment flies off while turning it down revealing a bad glue bond somewhere on the threaded tenon.

It seems to me that I never want wax applied to an area I am about to glue up! :shocked2:

IMO, I believe that a thru hole ferrule fit properly with v groove keyways filed in the tenon offers the most reliable ferrule set up in the long run.

As I said most ferrule repair jobs I get are on threaded tenons. I always install a new tenon and go with a thru hole ferrule after advising the customer.

I have never had a repair job or had one of my shafts with a thru hole ferrule come back to me cracked in almost 12 years and I have done at least 1 to 2 per week for that time with the exception of some ivory jobs. Do the math, that is a lot of ferrules.

I don't believe that threading a ferrule by itself has any effect on the hit but I understand that a caped ferrule would have a feel difference to a player.

JMO,

Rick

I was not going to post on this thread because I have entered my opinion on this subject before. Yesterday I performed a repair job on a cracked ferrule and it was very typical of what I have described above. So I took a pic and as you can see the glue bond was not consistent on the threads as is the case with most of the repairs I do on cracked threaded ferrules. Not all but most look like this in my experience.

Look closely at the cross section of the tenon / ferrule thread interface. The interlocking geometry sucks. If you are going to thread, get with the live threading and ditch the compression dies.

 
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Drill Bits? Do I want a stub or is any quality bit ok.

Grooving(venting). Can someone illustrate a grooved tenon. I'd like to see the appropriate size. At first it's too big or too small. Thanks.
 
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What function does the V grove keyway provide in a thru hole ferrule?

Hi,

Keyway engineered joints are designed in longitudinal joints to improve the performance of the joint.

The keyway creates an interlocking style effect between the two materials, tenon / ferrule in this case and gives the epoxy a foundation into the tenon and increases the linear surface area of the bonded joint.

Rick
 
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Drill Bits? Do I want a stub or is any quality bit ok.

Grooving(venting). Can someone illustrate a grooved tenon. I'd like to see the appropriate size. At first it's too big or too small. Thanks.

Hi,

When drilling into wood after center drilling, you always want a stub drill and a lathe speed of less than 500 rpm to prevent walking of the bit. If drilling more than one inch, you can switch to a longer bit of the same size and it will follow the hole in the drilling process. Always use a stub drill to establish the first peck. You will never be sorry!

On a 1 inch tenon I personally do about 7 grooves with a triangle file about .050 deep. I have gone to 1/2" ferrules on my new cues and now only do 3 grooves in the 1/2" distance.

With a faster set epoxy you want a total of about .005 interference fit between the OD and ID of the joint. Too tight is bad and too loose is not good either. If you turn down to a few thou over the hole size of the ferrule, you can sand the fit up. Be carefull because once the ferrule squeezes on tight you can sand for just a few seconds to long and blow through the correct interface. Sand very deliberately for just a second or too and keep checking for the fit that does not screed the epoxy out but allows it to fill when you slowly spin it on after loading up the tenon, face and ID of the ferrule.

Rick
 
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IMO, I believe that a thru hole ferrule fit properly with v groove keyways filed in the tenon offers the most reliable ferrule set up in the long run.
IMO, a properly installed live-threaded ferrule will less likely develop a gap at the bottom than that configuration. A V groove does nothing but add more glue. .
Wood expands and contracts. A mechanical bond supporting the glue bond will be more reliable .

Ferrules cracking is more caused by people getting rid of the cap on really hard ferrules like melamine imo.

Maybe traveling repair men like Ted Harris and Ryan Tweeten can settle this as they've seen hundreds or thousands of ferrules move/crack/break.
 
Tail stock guide

I got a few emails asking for the link to the compression die video. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KopoSZxUddo


I have made a tail stock guide up, with different adapters for different things.
Like die holders and tap holders etc. These are all a nice slide fit over the shaft that sticks out of the tailstock. Tail stock end is #2 morse taper.
So when you feed a tap for example, when you let it go, it just spins on the pin.
Keeps everything neatly aligned.

Little machine shop a similar thing. Wish you could buy this sort of stuff 30 years ago. I do not use a tommy bar like shown below though. Mine only have either a knurl or a series of grooves to hold with, that won't tear the hand

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2314&category=

Neil
 
It was a trade secret until now.

Lol, so far I see good arguments to both sides. Rick, if you have time would you be able to post a pic of the grooves on your tenons?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
It was a trade secret until now.

Lol, so far I see good arguments to both sides. Rick, if you have time would you be able to post a pic of the grooves on your tenons?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


I am doing a shaft tomorrow. No problem.
 
The most different ferrule I have ever seen was by Doc Fry. He called it a Bell Tip. The shaft was 13mm. The ivory ferrule would flair to 14mm. It was strange but neat.
 
This is the second thread in 2 days that I've seen slip on ferrules :)
I think the one in the main forum guy was seriously touting the wonderful playing characteristics of them :D
 
The most different ferrule I have ever seen was by Doc Fry. He called it a Bell Tip. The shaft was 13mm. The ivory ferrule would flair to 14mm. It was strange but neat.

I have an old Brunswick butterfly like that. It's weird

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
The belled ferrule has been around a LONG time,and was used by at least one legend.

Back in 1990,Jim Rempe did an exhibition in Memphis. Afterwards,I decided to check out his cues,and his Meucci break cue was set up like that.

The shaft was 13mm,but the ferrule was reverse tapered to 14mm. Jim said it gave him a bigger sweet spot for the break. He said it also made it impossible to pull the tip too far back into his bridge,for increased accuracy. Tommy D.
 
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