The thing I learned from the snooker commentators was that snooker players can't put the chalk on the table
TERRIBLE Racks during World Pool Masters 2018
- Thread starter skateboardkid
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The thing I learned from the snooker commentators was that snooker players can't put the chalk on the table
I guess player could learn to rack like Shane.....all they have to do is practice!!
I don't care about referees, rack your own stops rack complaints. Nothing is stopping players from learning how to perfect their own rack to get tbe best results on the break....nothing but practice!!!
skateboardkid
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Racking like Shane is not hard. Choosing to leave gaps in the rack where it suits you is not something I agree with, however. Rack your own causes this in a huge way.
Is it cheating? I wouldn't necessarily go that far, but it's definitely not something I want to see - players leaving gaps in the rack and the wing ball flying in like a magic trick every time.
You apparently didn't hear or read about the DCC racking controversy. See:
SVB cheating? Shaw/SVB Derby 9 Ball AZB thread.
NV J.3 - 9-Ball Rack Manipulation and Breaking Cheats
How to Rack and Break 9-Ball Like a Pro
Are you implying that other players should also learn how to cheat with pattern racking and ball gapping?
Regards,
Dave
Check out the following excerpt from my recent BD feature article:
If you were at the Derby City Classic (DCC) this year, or if you have seen online videos NV J.2 and NV J.3, you will know that there was a huge controversy dealing with rack manipulation at the event. If you want to learn more, see the links in the YouTube video descriptions of NV J.2 and NV J.3 that provide easy access to a video of the last rack of the infamous match between Jayson Shaw and Shane VanBoening, the photo of the suspect rack Jayson captured with his phone during the match, and Shane’s Facebook reply to the accusations. Diagram 6 is the cheat Jayson was accusing Shane of using during their match. Dennis Orcollo was using the same cheat during the tournament. Shane and Dennis were the only players not breaking from the side, and they were fairly consistently pocketing the wing ball with a square hit from the “box” while also getting shape on the 1 in the upper corner. That creates a big advantage; although (maybe rightfully so), the advantage wasn’t big enough for either of them to win the tournament.
If a referee racks for you and there are gaps in the rack, either by accident or because it is difficult or impossible to get a tight rack with given conditions, or if an unscrupulous opponent racks for you and purposely creates gaps that might be unfavorable, then the knowledge presented in this article, on VENT-I, and in Joe Tucker’s material can help you choose the best CB position and type of hit to take advantage of the gaps. That is called “reading the rack.” Obviously, you need to carefully inspect the rack before breaking, if that is allowed. This year’s DCC was a “rack your own” event. If you are racking for yourself, and you purposely create gaps in certain positions, and break in a style that takes advantage of those gaps, rack after rack, then you are blatantly cheating with “rack manipulation,” which is unethical and unprofessional. Below is a pertinent entry from the official rules of pool (The WPA World Standardized Rules). The key phrases pertaining to both rack manipulation and pattern racking are bolded. I think it is crystal clear to most people reading this rule that it is illegal to manipulate rack gaps or ball patterns.
2.2 Nine Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a diamond shape, with the one ball at the apex of the diamond and on the foot spot and the nine ball in the middle of the diamond. The other balls will be placed in the diamond without purposeful or intentional pattern.
If you want to quote rules as the official bible of how to play 9 ball, then quote the rules that in a tournament the 9 ball is racked on the foot spot, and the 1 ball is ahead of the foot spot, because there certainly has been those rules as well. I look at rack your own as no different than someone who beats his opponent with the use of a jump cue, because the player using it has put in the HOURS of practice to master the use of it, whereas a LOT of other players haven't, or refuse to because they don't consider the use of jump cues as being fair, and in fact consider it cheating.
Rack your own is an option....an option to learn or not, players choice, but i don't support holding a player back because they HAVE put in the time to master the rack. Can you, or anyone else provide one single reason as to why ANY other player on the planet can't learn to rack and break like SVB???
It's pool people, learn how to rack like your opponent does, then beat your opponent at his own game....pure and simple!!!
The thing I learned from the snooker commentators was that snooker players can't put the chalk on the table
Right, they carry their chalk with them, I don't think it's a bad idea.
My rules for tournaments are simple, if you're not the one racking, sit down, shut up, and worry about your own rack when it's YOUR turn to rack for yourself!!
Bad racks are not uncommon with refs, if you look at the AccuStats videos or the ESPN stuff from the 80s, 90s early 2000s, the 9 ball was made quite a lot, if not made it would still go towards the corner. I would say maybe half the racks were "good". Best part was the crowd cheering the 9 going in like it was a good shot or something.
Rack your own is not a "solution" but an option that comes with it's own issues. Notable recent example, DCC 9 ball this year, Frost vs Immonen match, Frost made like 3 9 balls off the break, straight in the corner pocket. Rack your own would be better if the 9 did not count on the break. Even then, you can wire a corner ball very easily by just not fixing a gap.
Rack your own is not a "solution" but an option that comes with it's own issues. Notable recent example, DCC 9 ball this year, Frost vs Immonen match, Frost made like 3 9 balls off the break, straight in the corner pocket. Rack your own would be better if the 9 did not count on the break. Even then, you can wire a corner ball very easily by just not fixing a gap.
Regarding the spot not in the correct place, that is an affect of the camera being overhead. I have a lot of experience with this on my home table and overhead cameras. Its impossible for the camera to show the spot in the correct place, because the slate cloth is on a different plane than the diamonds on the rail, and its a parallax effect.
You can see this on any video that has the headstring line drawn. It will never line up with the diamonds.
This is another reason you absolutely cannot tell if a ball goes on the overhead, or what the angle is (except ball parks). There is no substitution for being the player at the table. You hear this time and time again from professional commentators who are also professional players.
You can see this on any video that has the headstring line drawn. It will never line up with the diamonds.
This is another reason you absolutely cannot tell if a ball goes on the overhead, or what the angle is (except ball parks). There is no substitution for being the player at the table. You hear this time and time again from professional commentators who are also professional players.
No different that cheating with a jump cue is it? They should have NEVER been allowed in pool to begin with. With a rack pattern of balls preset, if a player can "cheat" rack in his favor, then MY feelings are that the OTHER player better learn to rack better, THAT is the only way to stop all the crying about the rack, but in MY tournaments there's going to be some penalties associated with racking, 1) opposing player complains the first time, warning about complaining issued. Complain again, opponent gets awarded 1 game point, complain AGAIN and 1 more game point will be awarded to the opponent, 3rd complaint will result in the forfeiture of the match by the player complaining. Person RACKING has 30 seconds to accept the rack, violation is 1 warning. 2nd violation 1 game point will be awarded to the opponent...and so on. If cry babies are allowed to cry any time they want, then we've completely lost control of this sport. IF YOU THINK YOUR OPPONENT IS CHEATING RACKING, THEN LEARN HOW TO CHEAT BACK.....PERIOD!!!!
This is what I recommend in my article:
So how can we change 9-ball tournament rules to prevent rack manipulation and pattern racking? Obviously you cannot let the players rack for themselves or for each other. From many past examples of abuse, some (if not many) players cannot be trusted to rack honestly and fairly. There must be one or more neutral people (e.g., trusted referees or volunteers) who circulate among the tournament tables racking for all games, especially in the later rounds of a tournament. If neutral rackers are not available, it should be made perfectly clear in the pre-tournament players’ meeting that pattern racking and rack manipulation are not allowed, will not be tolerated, and will result in severe penalties (for example, disqualification from the tournament).
The DCC has a reputation as a gamblers’ event, and there is a long tradition and history with playing 9-ball the way it has always been played, without all of the new rules and breaking limitations. One option going forward is foster an “anything goes” attitude at the DCC. Allow rack your own, pattern racking, soft breaks, gap manipulation, etc. It would be interesting to see who can best master all of the cheats and execute them the most consistently, while still controlling the CB and getting a look at the 1 (or the 2). To go deep in the tournament, one would still need to be able to run out consistently and win safety battles when they arise. With a “winner breaks” format, the possibility of huge comebacks or a dominating performance with large “packages” of strung-together break&runs are also crowd-pleasing possibilities.
I think the best solution for most 9-ball tournaments is to use a combination of all of the measures developed to “fix” the 9-ball break. First of all, racking templates should be used or the tables should be trained, and a trusted neutral person should rack so everybody gets a fair and legal rack in every game. Also, if using templates, make sure the racking area is marked making proper alignment easy. Also require breaking from the narrow “box” with the 9 on the spot, and enforce the 3-point break rule. All of these measures will help ensure that the best and most well-rounded players go deep in the tournament.
If you look at the pro interviews in the BD version of my article, you will see that they seems to agree with my last paragraph.
Regards,
Dave
Everyone is still crying about the rack?
It doesn't matter. The best players still win the tournaments, not the best rackers. Hell, Corey is the best of the best for rackers, he invented it, and he barely won anything after his super year in 2001.
Efren probably could care less if the gaps are 1" wide. He still wins at age 60.
I find it even more hilarious on a local level, players cry about the rack, but can't run out if you gave them break and BIH.
It doesn't matter. The best players still win the tournaments, not the best rackers. Hell, Corey is the best of the best for rackers, he invented it, and he barely won anything after his super year in 2001.
Efren probably could care less if the gaps are 1" wide. He still wins at age 60.
I find it even more hilarious on a local level, players cry about the rack, but can't run out if you gave them break and BIH.
Here's my problem with the racking problems, the rules, and everthing else that goes along with these kind of conversations. For the most part, everyone of you that feel things today with pool are screwed up, are at the same time, profiting from it. Dr. Dave sells videos, he profits, the BCA claims pool should be played by their rules, they profit as well. All the so called pool organizations around the world, ALL think they're in charge of pool!! Problem is, NO ONE is putting up ANY MONEY to support this sport.....EVERYONE has a voice, but NO ONE has any MONEY....WHY IS THAT?????
Here's something everyone can trust and believe in. If I'm sucessful in what I'm about to do, there won't be ANY vendor's booths to rent at the world tournaments, as in there won't be any more free rides for anyone selling their wares at the major events. The ONLY way any outside sales is going to take place....is if the vendor's sponsor the players as a way of advertising what they have for sale, or promote in the hopes of getting sales. Paying the players is going to be the ONLY way, period!
I'm moving forward with my plans, as i have nothing better to do, and trust me when i say i have no quit in me. I have another invention i haven't even talked about that only a couple of you are even aware of, and if the 2 businesses that are interested in buying it, jump on board, the game is over, i win....and the players win!!! Everyone else can stand back and watch.
I'm moving forward with my plans, as i have nothing better to do, and trust me when i say i have no quit in me. I have another invention i haven't even talked about that only a couple of you are even aware of, and if the 2 businesses that are interested in buying it, jump on board, the game is over, i win....and the players win!!! Everyone else can stand back and watch.
If you watch the old 1966 video of Irving Crane running 150 and out vs Balsis you see Crane early in the match saying something to the referee. I suspect the topic was getting a tight rack. It isn't new and it isn't limited to 9 ball.
Did we ever figure out the cute ref's name?
She is a lot prettier than ken. A lot.
She is a lot prettier than ken. A lot.