Texas Staff working deligently to prove Squirt has NO EFFECT on the Cue Ball!!!

[CJ Wiley]

.I wouldn't advise using it to "cinch" balls-at least I wouldn't on your last barrel

Mr. Wiley,

I do not mean to start anything contoversial. Believe me I've only been here since June & there is not much that I have not seen 'discussed'.

I use back hand english, front hand english, a combo of both bhe & fhe, & 'paralell' english. I do not really know why I choose to use which one for a certain shot. I just 'feel' it & do it. I have seen a form where BHE is set up & then when the stroke is made, the tip is brought back toward center but I have not tried it. Are you suggesting another form? If you do not want to bring it up here because of controversy, I invite you to introduce me to it through a PM.

Regards.
Rick

That sounds complicated....it's much easier to apply english consistently...and it's even better to learn to play without english....it's really only needed to curve the ball or change the angle coming off a rail....I wouldn't advise using it (using any extra english) to "cinch" balls....at least I wouldn't on your last barrel :wink:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

As a general rule, if [shafts] are flexible, they deflect more than if they are stiff.

I don't believe that's the case except to a very minor degree, or if the flexibility is caused by the shaft being thinner and therefore having less end mass. In other words, as a general rule shaft flexibility isn't a big factor in squirt.

pj
chgo

 

[poolrod]

I wish I had a real visual of this. I would be a monster player, without working at it so hard,LOL. Thank you for your time and efforts.

quote(.the table is 2 perfect squares, with several triangles that are somehow VERY appealing to our subconscious perception).

 

[dr_dave]

I wish I had a real visual of this.

I'm not exactly sure what "visual" you want to see; but if you let me know, I probably have something available.

Regards,
Dave

 

[JoeyA]

Mr. Wiley,

I do not mean to start anything contoversial. Believe me I've only been here since June & there is not much that I have not seen 'discussed'.

I use back hand english, front hand english, a combo of both bhe & fhe, & 'paralell' english. I do not really know why I choose to use which one for a certain shot. I just 'feel' it & do it. I have seen a form where BHE is set up & then when the stroke is made, the tip is brought back toward center but I have not tried it. Are you suggesting another form? If you do not want to bring it up here because of controversy, I invite you to introduce me to it through a PM.
Regards.
Rick

Don't be so selfish Rick. There are other masochists here. :grin:

 

[poolrod]

I'm not exactly sure what "visual" you want to see; but if you let me know, I probably have something available.

Regards,
Dave

Hi Dave, the breakdown of two perfect squares, and where the triangles lay. I play on hitting a point on the object ball, I would rather play by aiming at a triangle maybe. I don't know how to aim Dave,lol. Maybe this two squares and triangles would help.k:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I wish I had a real visual of this. I would be a monster player, without working at it so hard,LOL. Thank you for your time and efforts.

quote(.the table is 2 perfect squares, with several triangles that are somehow VERY appealing to our subconscious perception).

Maybe this old numerology ramble from Hal Houle is what you're looking for. Let's hope CJ's ideas make more sense...

pj
chgo

My name is Hal Houle. Started playing in 1934. Began instructing pool in
1945. Still doing it. Teach professionals, very advanced players, and
road money players.

3 angles for all shots, on any size pool table, including snooker & bar
tables. Includes; pocketing, caroms, single rail banks, double rail
banks, 2, 3, and 4 rail banks, and double kiss banks.

All tables have a 2 to 1 ratio; 3 1/2 x 7, 4 x 8, 4 ½ x 9, 5 x 10, 6 x
12. Always twice as long as it is wide. Table corners are 90 degree
angles. Laying a cue from side pocket to corner pocket forms a 45
degree angle. Laying a cue from side pocket to middle diamond on same
end rail, forms a 30 degree angle. Laying a cue from side pocket to
first diamond on the same end rail forms a 45 degree angle. 3 angles
total 90 degrees, the same angles formed by table corners.

CB relation, to OB relation, to POCKET relation is always 15, 30, or 45
degrees. Simple solution. 2 places on CB to aim with; always in same
places. 3 places on OB to aim at, always in same places. 2 places on
CB, 3 places on OB; 2 x 3 = 6 pockets. Depending upon how CB and OB and
pocket lie in relation to one another, can pocket OB directly into
pocket or bank into any one of remaining 5 pockets. Reverse is true. If
relationship of CB to OB to POCKET can only be a bank, so be it.

No need to look at pocket or cushion while lining up place on CB at
place on OB. 3 angles. Only requirement is to recognize shot is 15, 30,
or 45 degree angle. Recognizing 3 angles can be done instantly by
aiming one of 2 CB places at one of 3 OB places. Will be obvious which
OB place is correct. Any time one of 2 places on CB is aimed at one of
3 places on OB, OB must go to pocket. Choose correctly and OB will go
to chosen pocket. Professionals know this aiming system, but are a
closed fraternity; you are the enemy. Interested in where those places
are?

CB 2 places ; left edge, right edge.

OB 3 places ; center of left half, center of 0B, center of right half.
Halves and center face straight at edges of CB, not facing toward
pocket. If working on a work bench at home, there wouldn't be a pocket.
You'd line up edge of CB at target on OB without pocket influence.

Cutting left 15 degrees, aim CB left edge at center of OB left half.
Cutting left 30 degrees, aim CB left edge at OB center. Cutting left 45
degrees, aim CB left edge at center of OB right half.

Cutting right 15 degrees, aim CB right edge at center of OB right half.
Cutting right 30 degrees, aim CB right edge at OB center. Cutting right
45 degrees, aim CB right edge at center of OB left half.

Get down and aim your old way, you will be close to where you should be
aiming. Look to see (without changing your head or eye position) where
CB edge is aiming at OB. On every shot, the CB edge is always aiming at
those OB places.

System is for any shot; pocketing, single banks, double banks, double
kiss banks, multiple banks, caroms, combinations. The shot remaining is
extreme cut for any shots over 45 degrees. Aim CB edge at center of
half of the half of 0B (¼). Don't let pocket influence you. Have a
friend hold ball tray between OB and pocket, so you can't see pocket.
You would've chosen 15, 30, or 45 degree angle before friend put ball
tray in place. Have fun, don't tell friend how you pocket OB without
seeing pocket.

 

[dr_dave]

Hi Dave, the breakdown of two perfect squares, and where the triangles lay. I play on hitting a point on the object ball, I would rather play by aiming at a triangle maybe. I don't know how to aim Dave,lol. Maybe this two squares and triangles would help.k:

Always aim at the closest triangle and just imagine the ball going into the hole. How can you miss?

If that doesn't work for you, you might want to try DAM (with a consistent and purposeful pre-shot routine). That's what most top players use, even though they might not call it that.

Regards,
Dave

 

[chefjeff]

Hi Dave, the breakdown of two perfect squares, and where the triangles lay. I play on hitting a point on the object ball, I would rather play by aiming at a triangle maybe. I don't know how to aim Dave,lol. Maybe this two squares and triangles would help.k:

There was a show on the Discovery Channel yesterday that is called "The Code." It is actually series of shows.

It goes into patterns and shapes and how those repeat in nature and how man can use those for good stuff.

I was thinking of this thread as I watched it and wondered how all of it might fit into playing pool. Maybe it could help?

Jeff Livingston

 

[Cdryden]

That sounds complicated....it's much easier to apply english consistently...and it's even better to learn to play without english....it's really only needed to curve the ball or change the angle coming off a rail....I wouldn't advise using it (using any extra english) to "cinch" balls....at least I wouldn't on your last barrel :wink:

Very true! One of the things that has improved my game the most is when a much better player (John Dudley) told me I needed to stop using english on every shot. He made me play the rest of the week using only center ball hits.

Obviously I missed a few here and there and got bad position once in a while by doing this but I learned how to manipulate the cue ball with better accuracy and less english. Now I have better command over both techniques.

That was about 20 years ago and I still find myself coming back to that basic truth.

 

[ENGLISH!]

According to Houle

Can't really remember if I've seen that before. If I did I was probably very young & discarded it. It is very simplistic from a reputable source. Can it really be that simple with subconscious perception kicked in?

 

[ENGLISH!]

Very true! One of the things that has improved my game the most is when a much better player (John Dudley) told me I needed to stop using english on every shot. He made me play the rest of the week using only center ball hits.

Obviously I missed a few here and there and got bad position once in a while by doing this but I learned how to manipulate the cue ball with better accuracy and less english. Now I have better command over both techniques.

That was about 20 years ago and I still find myself coming back to that basic truth.

That is true. You have to be able to do both. One explains the other. Without one you could not explain the other. If english was the norm then center would be the offshoot. Relativity, perception, & percentages.

 

[poolrod]

This is all great stuff, but no magic fix yet. LOL. Two perfect squares, probably meeting tangent to the side pockets, the short rails. I still don't see the triangles,lol.

 

[CJ Wiley]

John Dudley....that name brings back memories

Very true! One of the things that has improved my game the most is when a much better player (John Dudley) told me I needed to stop using english on every shot. He made me play the rest of the week using only center ball hits.

Obviously I missed a few here and there and got bad position once in a while by doing this but I learned how to manipulate the cue ball with better accuracy and less english. Now I have better command over both techniques.

That was about 20 years ago and I still find myself coming back to that basic truth.

John Dudley....that name brings back memories, we played in Quincy Ill. one time and then had a long, grueling match in Hannibal Mo. (where Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn were featured in the Mark Twain Classics), for 18 Hours Straight on a Bar Table with a Big Cue Ball.....he was going down to St. Louis playing Louie Roberts during that time too.....he certainly had his "moments" at the table and did play a consistent style.

 

[poolrod]

Always aim at the closest triangle and just imagine the ball going into the hole. How can you miss?

If that doesn't work for you, you might want to try DAM (with a consistent and purposeful pre-shot routine). That's what most top players use, even though they might not call it that.

Regards,
Dave

I would like to bring the aim to the felt in front of me, instead of finding the pinpoint on a object ball, and trusting my stroke,lol.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I would like to bring the aim to the felt in front of me, instead of finding the pinpoint on a object ball, and trusting my stroke,lol.

That's easy. Put your cue tip on the cloth in the center of the ghost ball and over the cue ball. Note a spot a convenient distance away on the cloth. Shoot the cue ball over the chosen spot.

 

[poolrod]

That's easy. Put your cue tip on the cloth in the center of the ghost ball and over the cue ball. Note a spot a convenient distance away on the cloth. Shoot the cue ball over the chosen spot.

Thank you, Bob, I like it.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I've heard several people talk about Hal Houle

Maybe this old numerology ramble from Hal Houle is what you're looking for. Let's hope CJ's ideas make more sense...

pj
chgo

My name is Hal Houle. Started playing in 1934. Began instructing pool in
1945. Still doing it. Teach professionals, very advanced players, and
road money players.

3 angles for all shots, on any size pool table, including snooker & bar
tables. Includes; pocketing, caroms, single rail banks, double rail
banks, 2, 3, and 4 rail banks, and double kiss banks.

All tables have a 2 to 1 ratio; 3 1/2 x 7, 4 x 8, 4 ½ x 9, 5 x 10, 6 x
12. Always twice as long as it is wide. Table corners are 90 degree
angles. Laying a cue from side pocket to corner pocket forms a 45
degree angle. Laying a cue from side pocket to middle diamond on same
end rail, forms a 30 degree angle. Laying a cue from side pocket to
first diamond on the same end rail forms a 45 degree angle. 3 angles
total 90 degrees, the same angles formed by table corners.

CB relation, to OB relation, to POCKET relation is always 15, 30, or 45
degrees. Simple solution. 2 places on CB to aim with; always in same
places. 3 places on OB to aim at, always in same places. 2 places on
CB, 3 places on OB; 2 x 3 = 6 pockets. Depending upon how CB and OB and
pocket lie in relation to one another, can pocket OB directly into
pocket or bank into any one of remaining 5 pockets. Reverse is true. If
relationship of CB to OB to POCKET can only be a bank, so be it.

No need to look at pocket or cushion while lining up place on CB at
place on OB. 3 angles. Only requirement is to recognize shot is 15, 30,
or 45 degree angle. Recognizing 3 angles can be done instantly by
aiming one of 2 CB places at one of 3 OB places. Will be obvious which
OB place is correct. Any time one of 2 places on CB is aimed at one of
3 places on OB, OB must go to pocket. Choose correctly and OB will go
to chosen pocket. Professionals know this aiming system, but are a
closed fraternity; you are the enemy. Interested in where those places
are?

CB 2 places ; left edge, right edge.

OB 3 places ; center of left half, center of 0B, center of right half.
Halves and center face straight at edges of CB, not facing toward
pocket. If working on a work bench at home, there wouldn't be a pocket.
You'd line up edge of CB at target on OB without pocket influence.

Cutting left 15 degrees, aim CB left edge at center of OB left half.
Cutting left 30 degrees, aim CB left edge at OB center. Cutting left 45
degrees, aim CB left edge at center of OB right half.

Cutting right 15 degrees, aim CB right edge at center of OB right half.
Cutting right 30 degrees, aim CB right edge at OB center. Cutting right
45 degrees, aim CB right edge at center of OB left half.

Get down and aim your old way, you will be close to where you should be
aiming. Look to see (without changing your head or eye position) where
CB edge is aiming at OB. On every shot, the CB edge is always aiming at
those OB places.

System is for any shot; pocketing, single banks, double banks, double
kiss banks, multiple banks, caroms, combinations. The shot remaining is
extreme cut for any shots over 45 degrees. Aim CB edge at center of
half of the half of 0B (¼). Don't let pocket influence you. Have a
friend hold ball tray between OB and pocket, so you can't see pocket.
You would've chosen 15, 30, or 45 degree angle before friend put ball
tray in place. Have fun, don't tell friend how you pocket OB without
seeing pocket.

This is interesting, I've heard several people talk about Hal, but never met him (that I'm aware of)....is he still alive and teaching? Where did he learn this, was it from Greenleaf or on his own?

 

[Bob Jewett]

This is interesting, I've heard several people talk about Hal, but never met him (that I'm aware of)....is he still alive and teaching? Where did he learn this, was it from Greenleaf or on his own?

Hal told me that Greenleaf was useless for info by the time Hal met him. I think part of it was that Ralph was an untutored natural and part of it was that he was either binging or recovering.

I think Hal is not in good health. It's been quite a while since he has posted here.

 

[backplaying]

Maybe this old numerology ramble from Hal Houle is what you're looking for. Let's hope CJ's ideas make more sense...

pj
chgo

My name is Hal Houle. Started playing in 1934. Began instructing pool in
1945. Still doing it. Teach professionals, very advanced players, and
road money players.

3 angles for all shots, on any size pool table, including snooker & bar
tables. Includes; pocketing, caroms, single rail banks, double rail
banks, 2, 3, and 4 rail banks, and double kiss banks.

All tables have a 2 to 1 ratio; 3 1/2 x 7, 4 x 8, 4 ½ x 9, 5 x 10, 6 x
12. Always twice as long as it is wide. Table corners are 90 degree
angles. Laying a cue from side pocket to corner pocket forms a 45
degree angle. Laying a cue from side pocket to middle diamond on same
end rail, forms a 30 degree angle. Laying a cue from side pocket to
first diamond on the same end rail forms a 45 degree angle. 3 angles
total 90 degrees, the same angles formed by table corners.

CB relation, to OB relation, to POCKET relation is always 15, 30, or 45
degrees. Simple solution. 2 places on CB to aim with; always in same
places. 3 places on OB to aim at, always in same places. 2 places on
CB, 3 places on OB; 2 x 3 = 6 pockets. Depending upon how CB and OB and
pocket lie in relation to one another, can pocket OB directly into
pocket or bank into any one of remaining 5 pockets. Reverse is true. If
relationship of CB to OB to POCKET can only be a bank, so be it.

No need to look at pocket or cushion while lining up place on CB at
place on OB. 3 angles. Only requirement is to recognize shot is 15, 30,
or 45 degree angle. Recognizing 3 angles can be done instantly by
aiming one of 2 CB places at one of 3 OB places. Will be obvious which
OB place is correct. Any time one of 2 places on CB is aimed at one of
3 places on OB, OB must go to pocket. Choose correctly and OB will go
to chosen pocket. Professionals know this aiming system, but are a
closed fraternity; you are the enemy. Interested in where those places
are?

CB 2 places ; left edge, right edge.

OB 3 places ; center of left half, center of 0B, center of right half.
Halves and center face straight at edges of CB, not facing toward
pocket. If working on a work bench at home, there wouldn't be a pocket.
You'd line up edge of CB at target on OB without pocket influence.

Cutting left 15 degrees, aim CB left edge at center of OB left half.
Cutting left 30 degrees, aim CB left edge at OB center. Cutting left 45
degrees, aim CB left edge at center of OB right half.

Cutting right 15 degrees, aim CB right edge at center of OB right half.
Cutting right 30 degrees, aim CB right edge at OB center. Cutting right
45 degrees, aim CB right edge at center of OB left half.

Get down and aim your old way, you will be close to where you should be
aiming. Look to see (without changing your head or eye position) where
CB edge is aiming at OB. On every shot, the CB edge is always aiming at
those OB places.

System is for any shot; pocketing, single banks, double banks, double
kiss banks, multiple banks, caroms, combinations. The shot remaining is
extreme cut for any shots over 45 degrees. Aim CB edge at center of
half of the half of 0B (¼). Don't let pocket influence you. Have a
friend hold ball tray between OB and pocket, so you can't see pocket.
You would've chosen 15, 30, or 45 degree angle before friend put ball
tray in place. Have fun, don't tell friend how you pocket OB without
seeing pocket.

Pocketing the balls is one thing, but staying in line and getting a feel for speed is also just as big a factor. How does this aiming system allow for using inside or outside english at different speeds when needed?