Thanks to the A-Hole who recommended using a +/-.005 machinist level for my table...

[iusedtoberich]

As an ex-toolmaker (30 plus years) I'd like to point out:

.005 indicates 5 thousandths of an inch

.0005 indicates 5 ten thousandths of an inch

Arnaldo

Very true and very relevant!

Also very relevant is the machinist level will be usually graduated to a foot (12"). So the numbers being thrown around of .005" and .0005" are per foot. If the level shows the slate is off level by .001 inch per foot, that means it's off .009" per 9 feet. This of course assumes the slate is planar.

 

[jtompilot]

Related to which, here are the official equipment specs:

4. Slates
The thickness must be at least 1 inch [2.54 cm], and the playing surface must be capable, either by its own strength or a combination of its strength and that of the table base frame, of maintaining an overall flatness within + .020 inches [.508 mm] lengthwise and + .010 inches [.254 mm] across the width. Further this surface should have an additional deflection not to exceed .030 inches [.762 mm] when loaded with a concentrated static force of 200 pounds [90.7 kg] at its center. All slate joints must be in the same plane within .005 inch [.127 mm] after leveling and shimming. Tournament tables must have a set of slates consisting of three pieces of equal size with wooden frame of at least ¾ inch [1.905 cm] thick lumber attached underneath the slate. The slate sections must be
secured to the base frame with countersunk screws or bolts.
​

But I suspect the the 0.0005 number is the amount in inches that you have to raise one end of the level to get the bubble to move one division. To get from there to table flatness/level takes a few translations.

I believe the OP put the decimal in the wrong spot. The slate is ground to .010
.005 is more that accurate. A-Hole is a little strong for someone who doesn't know what's he's talking about.

 

[WoodyMPW]

A-Hole is a little strong for someone who doesn't know what's he's talking about.

"Scumbag" is appropriate around here in these situations.

 

[GideonF]

Related to which, here are the official equipment specs:

4. Slates
Tournament tables must have a set of slates consisting of three pieces of equal size with wooden frame of at least ¾ inch [1.905 cm] thick lumber attached underneath the slate. The slate sections must be
secured to the base frame with countersunk screws or bolts.
​

So the Diamond Pro Am 9' tables with one piece slate are not tournament legal???

Gideon

 

[ktrepal85]

Related to which, here are the official equipment specs:

4. Slates
The thickness must be at least 1 inch [2.54 cm], and the playing surface must be capable, either by its own strength or a combination of its strength and that of the table base frame, of maintaining an overall flatness within + .020 inches [.508 mm] lengthwise and + .010 inches [.254 mm] across the width. Further this surface should have an additional deflection not to exceed .030 inches [.762 mm] when loaded with a concentrated static force of 200 pounds [90.7 kg] at its center. All slate joints must be in the same plane within .005 inch [.127 mm] after leveling and shimming. Tournament tables must have a set of slates consisting of three pieces of equal size with wooden frame of at least ¾ inch [1.905 cm] thick lumber attached underneath the slate. The slate sections must be
secured to the base frame with countersunk screws or bolts.
​

But I suspect the the 0.0005 number is the amount in inches that you have to raise one end of the level to get the bubble to move one division. To get from there to table flatness/level takes a few translations.

Most Valley bar boxes only have 3/4" slate

 

[Bob Jewett]

Most Valley bar boxes only have 3/4" slate

No Valley table is used in WPA-sanctioned events, so far as I know.

 

[JAMSGOLF]

I wanted to check the level of my table, but couldn't find a machinist level (wasn't going to buy one!). I tried to hit balls with my cue to check level, but I couldn't guarantee that I was hitting dead center ball so as not to cause spin. So, I built one of these out of an old piece of scrap molding (moulding) I had laying around because it had a "groove" already in it. I could've just routed a groove in a new board...just saying. I raised or lowered the end of the molding on the edge of the pool table to adjust the height (slower or faster ball speeds). This way I knew the ball was leaving the stimpmeter without spin...and showing me if the table was level.

***Note: After typing all this, I found this on Dr. Dave's site (LOL):

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I tried to hit balls with my cue to check level, but I couldn't guarantee that I was hitting dead center ball so as not to cause spin. ...

There are many situations where you would like to test what a ball does without spin. Just put three object balls in a straight line and shoot straight into the first one along the line of the balls. You could put three donuts in line on a piece of paper to make the setup faster and more repeatable.

The Stimpmeter is a better way to get repeatable speed but it takes carpentry.

 

[spartan]

I believe the OP put the decimal in the wrong spot. The slate is ground to .010
.005 is more that accurate. A-Hole is a little strong for someone who doesn't know what's he's talking about.

OP is a moron. Stupid fellow. Starting a thread with A-hole heading?
Where is the mod?

 

[jcrack_corn]

The op actually has a point. Although i doubt it matters.

You are not leveling to within 5 thousandths or 5 ten-thousandths....that is the accuracy of the tool per 12"

The .0005 tool will almost certainly show some out of level when the .005 tool is between the lines. It is 10x more sensitive, nothing to do with actually leveling a table to within 5 ten-thousandths

 

[michael4]

I have used water levels with great success.

I just tried this.....covered the pockets with plastic, and filled the whole table with water....
the water spilled over all the rails (and onto the floor) at the exact same time, so I assume the table is level.

 

[Mikey Town]

Have you ever used a very accurate high quality machinists level? If you have, this might be easier to understand. Rolling the ball is way more accurate than some 4 foot carpenters level. But not nearly as accurate as a good machinists level.

So that is why.

KMRUNOUT

I understand that high quality machinists levels are very accurate. I haven't used one personally, but a friend has one and I've seen it in action.

Regardless, the point of leveling a pool table is so you can play pool on it. When you play pool, you do it by rolling balls, not by placing levels in certain places. I'm not at all discounting the accuracy, or benefit of a machinists level. However, after you've leveled a table (using whichever level/method you choose), it only makes sense to roll balls on it to make sure that it's suitable for it's intended purpose.

 

[one stroke]

I understand that high quality machinists levels are very accurate. I haven't used one personally, but a friend has one and I've seen it in action.

Regardless, the point of leveling a pool table is so you can play pool on it. When you play pool, you do it by rolling balls, not by placing levels in certain places. I'm not at all discounting the accuracy, or benefit of a machinists level. However, after you've leveled a table (using whichever level/method you choose), it only makes sense to roll balls on it to make sure that it's suitable for it's intended purpose.

Well I paid once to have a table set up the mech had the fancy level , leveled it all up put the cloth on it rolled some balls on it and it never rolled dead straight ,I was told as I have heard before it will get better over time it never did , a couple yrs later I rented out the basement so I moved the table up stairs by myself 3 pc slate set the slate , leveled it with a 6 ft level the before I put the cloth on it rolled a cue ball on it and made final adjustments ,, I let it sit a week rolled cue ball again it was a little off from settling made a couple of adjustments coverd it and it rolled straight for about 6 months then started to drift ,did adjustments on the legs and it was fine again

1

 

[realkingcobra]

As recommended by the AZB forums I bought a +/-.005" machinist level and used it. The balls still rolled off some and I knew it wasn't right. I then talked to some people in the pool hall and realized I need a +/-.0005" level which they let me borrow. Now my table is playing perfect!

Hopefully someone won't make the same mistake I made and will save their money...

Well then, all I have to say is you should have bought a level that came with directions so you'd have known how to use it in the first place....amateur

 

[one stroke]

Well then, all I have to say is you should have bought a level that came with directions so you'd have known how to use it in the first place....amateur

Well they do say the level is only as good as the person using it lol


1

 

[Ralph Kramden]

As an ex-toolmaker (30 plus years) I'd like to point out:

.005 indicates 5 thousandths of an inch

.0005 indicates 5 ten thousandths of an inch

Arnaldo

As another ex-toolmaker I will add that .0005 is like splitting a human hair 10x lengthwise.
Does ketrepal85 keep his table in an atmospherical controlled and dustless environment?

If his table runs out at .005 it may be the level he used or the lack of knowing how to use it.
.

 

[ceebee]

We went to an ACS Tournament at the Tropicana. The fellow in charge used a 10 inch level (estimate) on them Valleys & said they were good.

You could roll a ball into an open "C", but he said they were level. HaHaHa

 

[macguy]

We went to an ACS Tournament at the Tropicana. The fellow in charge used a 10 inch level (estimate) on them Valleys & said they were good.

You could roll a ball into an open "C", but he said they were level. HaHaHa

I was at a Grady Mathews tournament and the same thing happened. The guys who set up the tables just left after setting them up. Grady started the tournament with just two rounds of matches the first night after the draw and the next day was to be a full schedule.

It was horrible balls were rolling all over the place. Grady didn't know what to do, it is like 11 pm they were supposed to start matches the next day early. I went up to Grady and mentioned you have like half a dozen guys here playing that are table mechanics.

Give your permission and we will fix the tables. Before morning everything was perfect and stayed like that for the next 4 days. This is an example though of someone doing a table and not really checking their work.

If this was a home table no big deal they just go back in a few days and correct their work, but this is a tournament and people are going to be playing on these tables tomorrow and expect them to be somewhat right.

 

[DaveK]

As recommended by the AZB forums I bought a +/-.005" machinist level and used it. The balls still rolled off some and I knew it wasn't right. I then talked to some people in the pool hall and realized I need a +/-.0005" level which they let me borrow. Now my table is playing perfect!

Hopefully someone won't make the same mistake I made and will save their money...

Around here the standard level used by table mechanics is the Starrett 98 (12" or 18" version). These have graduations of 0.005" per foot. The Starrett 199 Master Precision Level is about 3x the price, and has graduations of 0.0005" per foot. I am quite amazed that anyone would lend out a Master Precision Level. I am equally amazed that a pool hall would have a Master Precision Level, but would expect any good mechanic to own one or more Starrett 98 Machinists Levels (and know how to calibrate one, it isn't that difficult). Lastly, I would expect anyone using a 199 to level a pool table to become completely insane within a few hours of shimming, measuring, swearing, tweaking, measuring, swearing, letting a drop of sweat land on the table, measuring, swearing etc.etc.etc ad infinitum.

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/p...ols/1117-Machinsts-Levels/111701-Levels/98-12

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/p...ools/1117-Machinsts-Levels/111701-Levels/199Z

Dave <--- owns a 98Z-12, bought used (although there is not a mark on the level or box) for $100 Canadian :thumbup:

 

[Skippy27]

As recommended by the AZB forums I bought a +/-.005" machinist level and used it. The balls still rolled off some and I knew it wasn't right. I then talked to some people in the pool hall and realized I need a +/-.0005" level which they let me borrow. Now my table is playing perfect!

Hopefully someone won't make the same mistake I made and will save their money...

Small sheets of glass will never lie to you. Put down any size sheet of glass on the table and set a ball on it. It will show you where you are high every time.

I personally, being I have a bar box, purchased 4 - 10" x 40" glass panels to cover half the table. With this I can set balls in different locations to see if it is a slate issue, if they start rolling different directions, or if it is leg level issue in that they all head in the same direction.

Your table can't get any more level then setting a ball on glass and having it not move.