The $600 plus wrap on a full splice cue?

T

Troy Mckune

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After all this talk lately about: full splice/sneaky pete blanks, are cuemakers that make sneaky petes real cuemakers or assemblers, and who uses preconstructed blanks, I had this thought.

There is a huge price difference between a full splice blank with no veneers and no wrap and a similar blank with a wrap.

Most full splice sneaky pete cues sell around $300+ depending on the cuemaker, woods, looks, etc. If you take an equivalent blank with the same ring work, joint, cuemaker, woods, etc. but put a wrap on it, it would probably sell for triple. I now most full splice blanks with wraps have the points closer to the joint so the wrap is approximately 12" from the joint and 5" from the butt cap, but does that equal $600. I know I am generalizing here and there are many variables involved. I guess most of us perceive sneaky petes as cut up house cues and in general should be cheaper

Anybody else notice this? Why?
 
Troy Mckune said:
After all this talk lately about: full splice/sneaky pete blanks, are cuemakers that make sneaky petes real cuemakers or assemblers, and who uses preconstructed blanks, I had this thought.

There is a huge price difference between a full splice blank with no veneers and no wrap and a similar blank with a wrap.

Most full splice sneaky pete cues sell around $300+ depending on the cuemaker, woods, looks, etc. If you take an equivalent blank with the same ring work, joint, cuemaker, woods, etc. but put a wrap on it, it would probably sell for triple. I now most full splice blanks with wraps have the points closer to the joint so the wrap is approximately 12" from the joint and 5" from the butt cap, but does that equal $600. I know I am generalizing here and there are many variables involved. I guess most of us perceive sneaky petes as cut up house cues and in general should be cheaper

Anybody else notice this? Why?
Click to expand...

I can see the extra $ if the points have 4 veneers.
 
Troy Mckune said:
After all this talk lately about: full splice/sneaky pete blanks, are cuemakers that make sneaky petes real cuemakers or assemblers, and who uses preconstructed blanks,
QUOTE]

I skipped the rest of your post, I saw to many questions in it, but the above question:
Some real cue makers not conversionist if that's even a word, do offer sneaky Pete's as another way to help pay the bills, this is also another way to gain customers at a lower priced level. But it is also an illusion because sneaky Pete's as a rule have a different hit than a cue with a forearm, spliced handle and butt sleeve. The difference being the spliced joint between the forearm and the wrap.

Now they are also good practice for the beginning cue maker to get started selling inexpensive cues for people to get to know him, and also as a learning tool on maintaining even points.
Strictly my opinion.
And the word him could mean him or her, it's the millennium.
Click to expand...
 
But it is also an illusion because sneaky Pete's as a rule have a different hit than a cue with a forearm, spliced handle and butt sleeve. The difference being the spliced joint between the forearm and the wrap.
Click to expand...


yes,the hit is softer in my cues.i am not sure about everyone else's but my widow cues have a harder hit than any of the sneakies i have built.i guess maybe it has to do with the glue at the sneaky joint.

teh sneakies really aren't any easier to get done either.i guess they are easier to have laying around and making intermittent cuts on them and there isn't any real construction,but other than that they are just as tough to make.

they really shouldn't be any cheaper in my eyes.also the sneaky blanks are usually $30-$130 and i have seen lots of widow cues with $20 or less in wood cost.i mean a plain piece of PH or Cocobolo or Maple is going to be $10 tops.

the highly figured pieces are a different story altogether,but that is my take on the sneakies,i see no reason why they should be so much cheap.
 
Troy Mckune said:
I now most full splice blanks with wraps have the points closer to the joint so the wrap is approximately 12" from the joint and 5" from the butt cap,
Click to expand...

I prefer 13" of forearm in front of the wrap and about 3" behind it.
Most people never hold the cue anywhere near the center of the wrap.
Most hold it closer to the butt cap.

Anyhow ... A $600 linen wrap (or even leather) does seem a bit steep ... :cool:

Good work if yo can get it!
 
600 wrap

Don't know many 300.00 sneaky builders that command 900.00 for a wrapped sneaky.
 
Michael Webb said:
Troy Mckune said:
After all this talk lately about: full splice/sneaky Pete blanks, are cue makers that make sneaky pete's real cue makers or assemblers, and who uses reconstructed blanks,
QUOTE]

I skipped the rest of your post, I saw to many questions in it, but the above question:
Some real cue makers not conversionist if that's even a word, do offer sneaky Pete's as another way to help pay the bills, this is also another way to gain customers at a lower priced level. But it is also an illusion because sneaky Pete's as a rule have a different hit than a cue with a forearm, spliced handle and butt sleeve. The difference being the spliced joint between the forearm and the wrap.

Now they are also good practice for the beginning cue maker to get started selling inexpensive cues for people to get to know him, and also as a learning tool on maintaining even points.
Strictly my opinion.
And the word him could mean him or her, it's the millennium.
Click to expand...

Other things to take into account,
Joints and butt caps
dress rings
shaft, 1 or 2
What kind of tips and ferrules
wraps, optional
Finish
labor, hmmmm, are you suppose to charge for the work?

An investment is only good if there's something to gain by it, whether it be profit, knowledge, experience, credibility, or something of collectible value.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Ok let me put this another way.

A well regarded cuemaker sends 2 birdseye maple fronts and 2 ebony handles to Schmelke and has them made into full spliced blanks. The 1st one he has spliced like a traditional sneaky pete the 2nd he has spliced so there is approximately 12" of forearm. He makes them both into cues with the same joints, rings, buttcap, shaft taper and quality of shaft. The only difference between the two finished cues will be the location of the points and the 2nd has a wrap.

Both cues are put on the market. The first cue will be labeled as a sneaky pete and probably sell for $300 or so. The 2nd cue marketed as a full spliced cue will command a much higher price even though the amount of time invested and material cost are all the same except for a few bucks in linen and a little time.

So the general point I was trying to make is that if a cue looks like a sneaky pete its perceived value is less than it should be. Sneaky petes are probably the best value to get from a big named cuemaker.
 
That would be a heckuva upcharge for a linen wrap! Heck, even for leather.

Maybe it's just me....and I know that people love their wraps, but...it just doesn't seem right to put a wrap on a full splice cue...with or without veneers. Anymore, the wood used in many of these types of cues is such that it is usually highly figured...why would anyone to want to hide that?!

I will have to admit tho...the days of the sub $300 'pete' are almost gone. Anymore it seems the norm seems to be between $350 on the low end and $700 or more on the high end. If it's from a high demand/low availability maker...you can expect it to go higher still.

I still know where to get $175 'petes', with collars and butt ringwork...but that is definitely not the norm these days.

Lisa
 
$300 for b'eye ebony with collar and good shaft is a steal.
Kill me if you want but wrapless cues hit better imo.
Fatter handle, fatter A-joint area and more feel.
 
Troy Mckune said:
Ok let me put this another way.
Both cues are put on the market. The first cue will be labeled as a sneaky pete and probably sell for $300 or so. The 2nd cue marketed as a full spliced cue will command a much higher price even though the amount of time invested and material cost are all the same except for a few bucks in linen and a little time.

So the general point I was trying to make is that if a cue looks like a sneaky pete its perceived value is less than it should be. Sneaky petes are probably the best value to get from a big named cuemaker.
Click to expand...

I understand where your coming from but, and this is a big but, depends on who the maker is,
I don't know to many full time cue makers that will do it for the 300 price with a good shaft, high gloss finish, even points and them actually doing it, not someone doing odds and ends in their shop under there so called supervision.
Bare with me a bit:
Examples:
Let's say:
Southwest did it, probably get 800 new, secondary market 1200 because their waiting list, but they snuck these in as a special.

Tad Kohara feels the urge:
Maybe 1200 new, secondary 1500 because it's a very limited run.

Bill Stroud, Just because he can, But he puts one of those special shafts of his on there and brings back the 5/16X14 acme pin for a run of 50 only and there numbered. Oh let's say he's in a good mood and charges 8 to 900 new, but 5 years from now they can sell for up to 1400 because it's 1 of the 50 limited.

No disrespect to the above and it's purely hypothetical so Please forgive the use of your names but, "WHO" has a lot to do with everything, especially when it comes to cues, so you can't use one sentence with 300 dollars in it and then cross it to a big time cue maker, It doesn't exist. I'm purely outside the box here but I have seen some stranger things.
The best value from any cue maker is what he specializes in, if he doesn't make his own blanks then that is not his specialty, he is trusting the heart of the pre-made blank to someone else. So he did not make that cue, he converted that cue.
Just my 50 cents worth, I think I spent more than 2 cents here.
 
Ok I probably shouldn't have used dollar figures because it is confusing my point.

The point I am trying to make is that of the two cues that I described, the sneaky pete cue will be undervalued more than it should be. By adding a wrap on the nearly same exact cue, the cue is legitimized in someway that makes it worth much more.

Joey, I agree. I hate wraps and have always played with wrapless or covered wrap cues.
 
Troy Mckune said:
Ok I probably shouldn't have used dollar figures because it is confusing my point.

The point I am trying to make is that of the two cues that I described, the sneaky pete cue will be undervalued more than it should be. By adding a wrap on the nearly same exact cue, the cue is legitimized in someway that makes it worth much more.

Joey, I agree. I hate wraps and have always played with wrapless or covered wrap cues.
Click to expand...

Now you got me and yes I agree, and heaven forbid because if the purpose of adding the wrap was so they could add a dowel into the bottom to make the points higher up the forearm and add a butt sleeve, definate increase in price. :happydance:
 
i suppose putting on a wrap adds to the cost simply because it is requiring additional work. any additional work can result in the cue being mangled so that is reflected in a price increase. on top of that, a cue like this would have 2 shafts and ideally they would be considered the "AAA" grade shafts that the cuemaker has. take into account that the cuemaker would charge 160-200 for each of the top grade shafts, that leaves u at 500-580 for the cue. leather wrap is usually around 125-150 so that puts the cue at somewhere around 375-430 this isnt so bad i suppose since u have to factor in the additional work.

a normal sneaky would not get a top grade shaft and would probably sell for around 350 with a shaft worth 75 dollars or so which puts it at 275. the difference would then be around 100-150 dollars which isn't too bad considering the extra work and extra risk on the cue. cutting the wrap groove requires taking passes on it and any time heat is generated it can do damage. chances might be slim in this case but that risk has to be factored in. it's the same reason why 10-20 dollar leather wraps cost 125 to put on. anytime u do work on the cue, there's a chance something gets butchered so cuemakers always take that into account and charge more.
 
JoeyInCali said:
$300 for b'eye ebony with collar and good shaft is a steal.
Kill me if you want but wrapless cues hit better imo.
Fatter handle, fatter A-joint area and more feel.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've never looked back so far. :thumbup:

Danktrees said it right, it requires more work and additional material.
 
Ok use to most cuemakers take a valley bar cue and turn it down and try to even up the points and make a shaft then clear coat it and their is your sneaky for around $250-$300. but now everyone is into fullsplice. and the front is birdseye and the back is ebony or rosewood. so if you are not setup to bulid this you have to buy the blank from someone else and now you have $300 in just the blank so you need to get $5 or $600 dollars for it. and even though you have a real nice cue now all anyone thinks is when they see a cue with no wrap is that its a sneaky pete. but if you take that same cue and add a wrap it becomes a four point custom cue.
 
Troy Mckune said:
After all this talk lately about: full splice/sneaky pete blanks, are cuemakers that make sneaky petes real cuemakers or assemblers, and who uses preconstructed blanks, I had this thought.

There is a huge price difference between a full splice blank with no veneers and no wrap and a similar blank with a wrap.

Most full splice sneaky pete cues sell around $300+ depending on the cuemaker, woods, looks, etc. If you take an equivalent blank with the same ring work, joint, cuemaker, woods, etc. but put a wrap on it, it would probably sell for triple. I now most full splice blanks with wraps have the points closer to the joint so the wrap is approximately 12" from the joint and 5" from the butt cap, but does that equal $600. I know I am generalizing here and there are many variables involved. I guess most of us perceive sneaky petes as cut up house cues and in general should be cheaper

Anybody else notice this? Why?
Click to expand...

Wrong question.

In fact, most cues with wraps are not made the way you describe.
And, the procedure you imangined would not
elevate the value to $900.

Can you provide one single example of a real person making
cues for which this IS the case?

Dale
 
pdcue said:
Wrong question.

In fact, most cues with wraps are not made the way you describe.
And, the procedure you imangined would not
elevate the value to $900.

Can you provide one single example of a real person making
cues for which this IS the case?

Dale
Click to expand...

Do I understand the question here?
Why would a real person cut a wrap into the solid butt of a full splice cue?

I have made solid butt cues that the customer decided he wanted a linen or leather wrap added AFTER the cue was finished.
Of course if I had intended for the cues to have a wrap the cues would NOT have made as a one piece butt but rather as a three piece with a maple handle under the wrap area.
However, there you go.
The reason someone would cut a wrap into a full splice butt and hide all that pretty wood.
 
cutter said:
Don't know many 300.00 sneaky builders that command 900.00 for a wrapped sneaky.
Click to expand...

PERFECT RESPONSE. THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING AS I WAS READING HIS QUESTION. GLAD YOU TYPED IT, NOW I DON'T HAVE TO.
 
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