The Arizona Rating System

[BRKNRUN]

Here are all of the issues that I see being the problem with Pool right now. Not in any particular order.

1. Too many places holding tournaments (Dilution)
2. Down Economy (Money)
3. Higher Rated Players always win, therefore Lower Rated stop coming
4. High Percent of Lower Rated Players don't list "Being the Best Pool Player that I can Be" in their top 5-10 priorities in life.
5. Lower Rated Player had 1 or 2 Bad experiences with Higher Rated Player
6. A lot of players can't sign on for Multiple Day Tournaments
7. Players are aware of Sandbagging happened by certain people or rooms
8. Higher Rated Players get special attention or treatment which doesn't fly with all the Lower Rated Players
9. Player(s) are loyal to one particular room or another and the Politics prevent them from playing in a competing rooms tournament.
10. Bad Experience with TD, Room Owner or Patron(s), including Karaoke, Drunks, Younger Crowd, Tables, Cost, etc.
11. Many Lower rated players play only to have fun with friends and Tournaments can take that fun away for many reasons.
12. Week Day tournaments take too long into the night for Working Folks!
13. Not Everyone Likes Scotch Doubles and that's all that seems to Happen around Arizona lately.
14. We live in Arizona and are surrounded by so many other things to do, Golfing, Biking, Hiking, Concerts, Vegas, Cali, Mexico, NFL, NBA, Hockey, ASU, UofA, Parks, Night Life, Skiing, Flagstaf, Lakes, Dining, Drinking, etc. etc. Pool is only a priority to a select few, I'd say less than 5% of all players in the state.
15. Probably more that I'm forgetting.........


Before you disagree with any of these items, let me tell you that having been on the committee, having run tournaments of all ratings including Opens, talking to many different rated players, running my little pool website, etc. I have heard all of these things so many different times by many different players. They are all real reasons why numbers are down.

For the DCT Specifically, I've heard excuses 2-6, 8, 10 and 14.

Regarding 1 and 3.......or 3 and 1

Isn't it interesting that the DCT One Pocket event is one of the biggest draws of the year..I think last year it was the biggest and may have even out drew the 5k added finale.....and everyone knows that arguably the best 1 pocket player in the world will be in the field and is about a 95% chance of winning the event?

Isn't it also interesting that other than the Preacher Ron monthly events....It is the only 1 pocket tournament of the year?

 

[mlalum]

Regarding 1 and 3.......or 3 and 1

Isn't it interesting that the DCT One Pocket event is one of the biggest draws of the year..I think last year it was the biggest and may have even out drew the 5k added finale.....and everyone knows that arguably the best 1 pocket player in the world will be in the field and is about a 95% chance of winning the event?

Isn't it also interesting that other than the Preacher Ron monthly events....It is the only 1 pocket tournament of the year?

Well Ken this isn't true. There was a 1500 added 1 pocket tournament last November at Kolby's. The top players in the world including Scott were not allowed to play. It was 1500 first prize. Almost every single player in phoenix that played told me that they wouldn't have played if Scott had played because we would just be handing the money to him.

So again i think you make assumptions that are incorrect whether you were once a nine or not.

 

[mlalum]

Here are all of the issues that I see being the problem with Pool right now. Not in any particular order.

1. Too many places holding tournaments (Dilution)
2. Down Economy (Money)
3. Higher Rated Players always win, therefore Lower Rated stop coming
4. High Percent of Lower Rated Players don't list "Being the Best Pool Player that I can Be" in their top 5-10 priorities in life.
5. Lower Rated Player had 1 or 2 Bad experiences with Higher Rated Player
6. A lot of players can't sign on for Multiple Day Tournaments
7. Players are aware of Sandbagging happened by certain people or rooms
8. Higher Rated Players get special attention or treatment which doesn't fly with all the Lower Rated Players
9. Player(s) are loyal to one particular room or another and the Politics prevent them from playing in a competing rooms tournament.
10. Bad Experience with TD, Room Owner or Patron(s), including Karaoke, Drunks, Younger Crowd, Tables, Cost, etc.
11. Many Lower rated players play only to have fun with friends and Tournaments can take that fun away for many reasons.
12. Week Day tournaments take too long into the night for Working Folks!
13. Not Everyone Likes Scotch Doubles and that's all that seems to Happen around Arizona lately.
14. We live in Arizona and are surrounded by so many other things to do, Golfing, Biking, Hiking, Concerts, Vegas, Cali, Mexico, NFL, NBA, Hockey, ASU, UofA, Parks, Night Life, Skiing, Flagstaf, Lakes, Dining, Drinking, etc. etc. Pool is only a priority to a select few, I'd say less than 5% of all players in the state.
15. Probably more that I'm forgetting.........


Before you disagree with any of these items, let me tell you that having been on the committee, having run tournaments of all ratings including Opens, talking to many different rated players, running my little pool website, etc. I have heard all of these things so many different times by many different players. They are all real reasons why numbers are down.

For the DCT Specifically, I've heard excuses 2-6, 8, 10 and 14.

Jerry. I think this is a pretty fair list.

 

[Jimmy M.]

14. We live in Arizona and are surrounded by so many other things to do, Golfing, Biking, Hiking, Concerts, Vegas, Cali, Mexico, NFL, NBA, Hockey, ASU, UofA, Parks, Night Life, Skiing, Flagstaf, Lakes, Dining, Drinking, etc. etc. Pool is only a priority to a select few, I'd say less than 5% of all players in the state.

For the DCT Specifically, I've heard excuses 2-6, 8, 10 and 14.

I can vouch for #14.

 

[stuckart]

Regarding 1 and 3.......or 3 and 1

Isn't it interesting that the DCT One Pocket event is one of the biggest draws of the year..I think last year it was the biggest and may have even out drew the 5k added finale.....and everyone knows that arguably the best 1 pocket player in the world will be in the field and is about a 95% chance of winning the event?

Isn't it also interesting that other than the Preacher Ron monthly events....It is the only 1 pocket tournament of the year?

I hear what you are saying, but I think numbers for 1 pocket are skewed for different reasons.

Most 1 hole players over rate their level of 1 pocket play, except the horrible players like myself that know better than to try.

In 1 pocket the games last longer than 8, 9 or 10-ball. And they will get shots at the table regardless of who they are playing. Plus people are always learning with this game of chess.

In Preacher Ronn's tournament, players are handicapped and lower rated players have a chance against better players. And the numbers are still not that great with 12-14 players each month.

 

[BRKNRUN]

So again i think you make assumptions that are incorrect whether you were once a nine or not.

And yet again you prove that you can't seem to read a post correctly....yet again just like some a well known cowboy.

Did you not see the (?) at the end of the statement....I thought that was supposed to mean "question"

Thanks for letting me know that there was 1 additional 1 pocket tournament for the whole year.....Excuuuuse me for missing 1 tournament.....You make it seem like there were 10 or more.....geeeez...

There were no "assumtions" made.....except by you.

But again......You are the all knowing right one....I am the dumb as rocks wrong one.....isn't that just what you really want to hear???????

 

[BRKNRUN]

In Preacher Ronn's tournament, players are handicapped and lower rated players have a chance against better players. And the numbers are still not that great with 12-14 players each month.

I have played in that event a couple times.....I would probably play more if I were rated higher or only playing higer rated players.......I know that does not make sense...but the problem is...I am a hack at 1-pocket....What happens if I play another hack like me is that both of us only go to 6 balls..

I think I set a record for how fast a race to two 1-pocket match can be over.....I won the lag...big mistake...I sold out a ball on the break and my opponent ran 6 and out....on his break he layed down a great break freezing me to the side rail with two balls in his hole (that I could not see).....I took a scratch into the stack and he banked a ball in and ran the other 5....match over in like 5 minutes.

My loser bracket match did not last much longer..:wink:

If I could play like opponents to 8 balls like the game was intended I would play more....I know it is only two more balls...but it seems to make a big difference in running out or stalling and leaving a potential opening to get back in the game.

 

[mlalum]

And yet again you prove that you can't seem to read a post correctly....yet again just like some a well known cowboy.

Did you not see the (?) at the end of the statement....I thought that was supposed to mean "question"

Thanks for letting me know that there was 1 additional 1 pocket tournament for the whole year.....Excuuuuse me for missing 1 tournament.....You make it seem like there were 10 or more.....geeeez...

There were no "assumtions" made.....except by you.

But again......You are the all knowing right one....I am the dumb as rocks wrong one.....isn't that just what you really want to hear???????

Whatever you think Ken.

 

[Roger Long]

But I resent the bald comment

So this is the real reason we don't see you around, anymore? Young man, you just earned yourself another rating: "too proud."

You have to learn to deal with problems like yours...wear a cap! :thumbup:

Roger

 

[Fast Lenny]

Well Ken this isn't true. There was a 1500 added 1 pocket tournament last November at Kolby's. The top players in the world including Scott were not allowed to play. It was 1500 first prize. Almost every single player in phoenix that played told me that they wouldn't have played if Scott had played because we would just be handing the money to him.

So again i think you make assumptions that are incorrect whether you were once a nine or not.

We both love the game of one pocket and I appreciate what you did for the players and the game for that event. I think a handful perhaps would not have played if Scott played in it because of a lack of heart. What does a tournament truly mean if you keep out the top players?, it just is not the same when you win it. It shows that when you get good and to the top that opportunities to play are taken away from you.

I think the DCT events for one pocket bring in big numbers and its open to anyone, all the guys who played in your tournament played in the DCT besides a couple out of town players because the money was better in your tournament. I expected you to have bigger numbers and was surprised it did not get more players for it. I still hope it becomes an annual event and hopefully you can get a room to match your added money and have an even bigger prize pool.

If you did it over it would be best IMO to make the field open, Scott Frost is a draw and people want to play him and watch him play along with some of the others who might show up, imagine turning Efren away, that would suck. Also limiting the field is not always the best way to go because your last minute guys might not show up thinking its full.

Staggered entries, $100 entry for pro players, $75 for your 9's and above, $50 for 7's and 8's and your 6's and below can play for $25. Have side pots for your 8 and under players to get in and maybe a prize like a cue from a sponsor to the highest finishing 8. A $100 bonus for the first person to run and 8 and out.

Just some ideas I have that are encouraging and can be used in other tournaments too. Imagine having a tournament and saying the first person to break and run a rack in whatever game gets $100. The first 8 and under to break and run a rack gets this or that.

Its your money and you can do things how you feel is best but this is just from my experiences around it. I myself am working on a 1 pocket event and trying to get some decent added money, but it will be open and however many show up to it can play. Scott might be the favorite but he does not have to win in a race to 3, he lost to Mitch twice if I recall a couple years back in the one pocket.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I have played in that event a couple times.....I would probably play more if I were rated higher or only playing higer rated players.......I know that does not make sense...but the problem is...I am a hack at 1-pocket....What happens if I play another hack like me is that both of us only go to 6 balls..

I think I set a record for how fast a race to two 1-pocket match can be over.....I won the lag...big mistake...I sold out a ball on the break and my opponent ran 6 and out....on his break he layed down a great break freezing me to the side rail with two balls in his hole (that I could not see).....I took a scratch into the stack and he banked a ball in and ran the other 5....match over in like 5 minutes.

My loser bracket match did not last much longer..:wink:

If I could play like opponents to 8 balls like the game was intended I would play more....I know it is only two more balls...but it seems to make a big difference in running out or stalling and leaving a potential opening to get back in the game.

I agree on this Ken, players who are evenly rated should have to go to 8, I spoke to Ronn about this and hope it changes. I am an 8 so I have to go to 7 and playing with another 8 and they have to go to 7 too is kind of stupid when we are playing even, it takes away from the game. You have my word that if it does not change for the next tournament then I will not play in it, I actually am sending Ronn an email now.

I think the handicaps are good but can still be worked on. I know the lowest handicap is a 7 but we should have handicaps going even lower for the guys who are 5's and 6's who want to give it a shot instead of saying they have to play as a 7 only getting a ball from guys like me and some others.

 

[12310bch]

I like you ideas for 1-hole tourneys, Lenny.


I would like to play against the monster 1P players (such as yourself) if Preacher Ronn's tourney didn't have a $35.00 price tag. I'm not saying that should change, his event is a tradition. But howz about an 8 or 7 under
handicapped 1P competition for those of us still trying to figure the game out?

By the way, how about 10-6 on my breaks, 11-5 on your breaks--alternate breaks--I break first? Cheap 5 game sets. :wave2:

 

[Jimmy M.]

So this is the real reason we don't see you around, anymore? Young man, you just earned yourself another rating: "too proud."

You have to learn to deal with problems like yours...wear a cap! :thumbup:

Roger

I'm bald by choice. I have plenty of hair if I want it. The problem is, it's all turning gray.

 

[mlalum]

We both love the game of one pocket and I appreciate what you did for the players and the game for that event. I think a handful perhaps would not have played if Scott played in it because of a lack of heart. What does a tournament truly mean if you keep out the top players?, it just is not the same when you win it. It shows that when you get good and to the top that opportunities to play are taken away from you.

I think the DCT events for one pocket bring in big numbers and its open to anyone, all the guys who played in your tournament played in the DCT besides a couple out of town players because the money was better in your tournament. I expected you to have bigger numbers and was surprised it did not get more players for it. I still hope it becomes an annual event and hopefully you can get a room to match your added money and have an even bigger prize pool.

If you did it over it would be best IMO to make the field open, Scott Frost is a draw and people want to play him and watch him play along with some of the others who might show up, imagine turning Efren away, that would suck. Also limiting the field is not always the best way to go because your last minute guys might not show up thinking its full.

Staggered entries, $100 entry for pro players, $75 for your 9's and above, $50 for 7's and 8's and your 6's and below can play for $25. Have side pots for your 8 and under players to get in and maybe a prize like a cue from a sponsor to the highest finishing 8. A $100 bonus for the first person to run and 8 and out.

Just some ideas I have that are encouraging and can be used in other tournaments too. Imagine having a tournament and saying the first person to break and run a rack in whatever game gets $100. The first 8 and under to break and run a rack gets this or that.

Its your money and you can do things how you feel is best but this is just from my experiences around it. I myself am working on a 1 pocket event and trying to get some decent added money, but it will be open and however many show up to it can play. Scott might be the favorite but he does not have to win in a race to 3, he lost to Mitch twice if I recall a couple years back in the one pocket.

I'm open to your ideas but as you know it's tricky business if you're going for larger numbers.

 

[mlalum]

I agree on this Ken, players who are evenly rated should have to go to 8, I spoke to Ronn about this and hope it changes. I am an 8 so I have to go to 7 and playing with another 8 and they have to go to 7 too is kind of stupid when we are playing even, it takes away from the game. You have my word that if it does not change for the next tournament then I will not play in it, I actually am sending Ronn an email now.

I think the handicaps are good but can still be worked on. I know the lowest handicap is a 7 but we should have handicaps going even lower for the guys who are 5's and 6's who want to give it a shot instead of saying they have to play as a 7 only getting a ball from guys like me and some others.

I also think having people who pay equal money to get into the tournament and then only get to go to 6 when it's even is crazy silly. See Ken we can agree on one thing.

 

[mlalum]

We both love the game of one pocket and I appreciate what you did for the players and the game for that event. I think a handful perhaps would not have played if Scott played in it because of a lack of heart. What does a tournament truly mean if you keep out the top players?, it just is not the same when you win it. It shows that when you get good and to the top that opportunities to play are taken away from you.

I think the DCT events for one pocket bring in big numbers and its open to anyone, all the guys who played in your tournament played in the DCT besides a couple out of town players because the money was better in your tournament. I expected you to have bigger numbers and was surprised it did not get more players for it. I still hope it becomes an annual event and hopefully you can get a room to match your added money and have an even bigger prize pool.

If you did it over it would be best IMO to make the field open, Scott Frost is a draw and people want to play him and watch him play along with some of the others who might show up, imagine turning Efren away, that would suck. Also limiting the field is not always the best way to go because your last minute guys might not show up thinking its full.

Staggered entries, $100 entry for pro players, $75 for your 9's and above, $50 for 7's and 8's and your 6's and below can play for $25. Have side pots for your 8 and under players to get in and maybe a prize like a cue from a sponsor to the highest finishing 8. A $100 bonus for the first person to run and 8 and out.

Just some ideas I have that are encouraging and can be used in other tournaments too. Imagine having a tournament and saying the first person to break and run a rack in whatever game gets $100. The first 8 and under to break and run a rack gets this or that.

Its your money and you can do things how you feel is best but this is just from my experiences around it. I myself am working on a 1 pocket event and trying to get some decent added money, but it will be open and however many show up to it can play. Scott might be the favorite but he does not have to win in a race to 3, he lost to Mitch twice if I recall a couple years back in the one pocket.

Well Lenny good to know. I might just leave the 1-pocket tournament to you this year. If I put a large amount up again I think it might be for a women's tournament.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Well Lenny good to know. I might just leave the 1-pocket tournament to you this year. If I put a large amount up again I think it might be for a women's tournament.

Yeah I am working on trying to get a 2-3K added 1 pocket tournament to happen this year sometime. I think getting several sponsors would be helpful as opposed to relying on a single entity and also getting a room to put up more than $500 is no easy task. Sometimes the only way to make something happen is to dig deep, even if its in your own pocket.

Would love to have you on board but understand your position on things and do hope you do the Southwest One Pocket Shootout again as it was a very good event whether you make changes or not. I agree on giving the ladies a big event here in Arizona as they are deserving of it and would be in full support of that also, the AWBT seems like they could use some help for sure.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Well I spoke to Ronn and here are the changes for the one pocket now. We added back the 6 rating and if your at the same handicap then you go to 8 balls. If you do not think you have a chance at these ratings then practice up and come back because it is a very fair system and almost anyone can win and get there. I have never won it but have been 1 ball away and have cashed many times, the last tournament I beat Frost in it.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Well I spoke to Ronn and here are the changes for the one pocket now. We added back the 6 rating and if your at the same handicap then you go to 8 balls. If you do not think you have a chance at these ratings then practice up and come back because it is a very fair system and almost anyone can win and get there. I have never won it but have been 1 ball away and have cashed many times, the last tournament I beat Frost in it.

My Obligatory nit pik....Just out of curiosity...why not make a 6 playing a 7 a 7/8 race?

(may have been an oversight)

Just my opinion....but in a game of 1 pocket.....someone in the game should always have to go to at least 8 balls.....or more

 

[abie10]

so us 5's are out of luck? or just should be concentrating on things other than 1 pocket I'm assuming...lol