The balls jump after hitting the rail on my Diamond Pro.. Any ideas?

[PUTT4DACA$$H]

Aftermarket change or upgrade

Just like with automobiles Diamond is always trying to make their product better and better each year. So this means that through research and developement this years model is not always the same as last years model. Small changes are constantly being made to make the new product better than the last one, trying to incorperate what we learn and gain in knowledge from one year to the next. Just as if you own a 2010 Mustang it is not the same as a 2011 or even a 2012. It was the best available at the time of purchase. The recalibration of the rails is similar to some people who buy a Mustang and then take it to Carrol Shelby for a SLIGHT TWEAKING OF THE PERFORMANCE!!!!

As with autos, to stay at the forefront and have the best of the best, you would buy a new pool table every year or two, but now we are able to come to you and upgrade your table to current 2011 specs, if you so desire and are willing to pay for such a service.

I don't know the reason his balls hop, there are many different scenarios around the country that I have heard about just like you guys have. What I was offering was a solution to make the table play great-guaranteed, same solution I use when a Gold Crown plays like sh*t. Re-calibrate the rails and the problems go away!!!!

There are a handful of guys around the country the are using this tooling to re-cut rails and getting all brands of tables to play better than they ever have. A Gold Crown that has had the rails re-calibrated plays in my opinion better than any new Brunswick that you can buy, and for only a fraction of the price of a new one. Just my opinions!

Good Luck
Gordon
Las Vegas

 

[Club Billiards]

Josh,

I left you a couple of emails. I talked to Glenn, he was very helpful and said you'd know exactly what to do once you read my email.

Thanks to Glenn for your help as well. I greatly appreciate it.

Finally got back in the office and read both your e-mails. I also talked to Glen today and he had the same impression about the solution to your problem. Call me any time, but I say play on it some more, and practice your masse and jumps without fear. When you wear that cloth out and the time comes to recover it, we'll rip into them and bring them up to date. It's going to be a couple weeks before I would have a chance to get to them anyway. I've got 4 sets of rails on my bench right now that need work, 9 tables to recover before this weekend, and VNEA State Tournament next weekend (are you going?). Keep in touch though, and when you're ready, we'll get everything right where you want it.

Thanks! We'll talk to you soon.

 

[matteroner]

Just like with automobiles Diamond is always trying to make their product better and better each year. So this means that through research and developement this years model is not always the same as last years model. Small changes are constantly being made to make the new product better than the last one, trying to incorperate what we learn and gain in knowledge from one year to the next. Just as if you own a 2010 Mustang it is not the same as a 2011 or even a 2012. It was the best available at the time of purchase. The recalibration of the rails is similar to some people who buy a Mustang and then take it to Carrol Shelby for a SLIGHT TWEAKING OF THE PERFORMANCE!!!!

As with autos, to stay at the forefront and have the best of the best, you would buy a new pool table every year or two, but now we are able to come to you and upgrade your table to current 2011 specs, if you so desire and are willing to pay for such a service.

I don't know the reason his balls hop, there are many different scenarios around the country that I have heard about just like you guys have. What I was offering was a solution to make the table play great-guaranteed, same solution I use when a Gold Crown plays like sh*t. Re-calibrate the rails and the problems go away!!!!

There are a handful of guys around the country the are using this tooling to re-cut rails and getting all brands of tables to play better than they ever have. A Gold Crown that has had the rails re-calibrated plays in my opinion better than any new Brunswick that you can buy, and for only a fraction of the price of a new one. Just my opinions!

Good Luck
Gordon
Las Vegas

If the balls hop then they hop ...that is out of spec ...the rules say no ball hop. it's not a minor problem. I would say diamond should pay for a service on a table that isn't up to spec and can't be calibrated by normal means.


but I guess it will make a lot of money for the folks on this forum since they are the only ones who know how to do the service ....


not trying to be a pest, but this seems like a very significant problem with a top quality product ....btw ...i think the correct specs should be public knowledge and at least the correction should be posted.

 

[Dartman]

...
The recalibration of the rails is similar to some people who buy a Mustang and then take it to Carrol Shelby for a SLIGHT TWEAKING OF THE PERFORMANCE!!!!

As with autos, to stay at the forefront and have the best of the best, you would buy a new pool table every year or two, but now we are able to come to you and upgrade your table to current 2011 specs, if you so desire and are willing to pay for such a service.
...

Sorry but I'm not buying this logic. One would not expect ball hop on any better brand stock table so it's not a matter of an upgrade but a defect in the basic playability of the product. What you're suggesting is that if a Diamond has ball hop then the customer should pay for this so-called recalibration to correct a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with.

 

[PUTT4DACA$$H]

All I suggested was a solution to someones problem

Sorry but I'm not buying this logic. One would not expect ball hop on any better brand stock table so it's not a matter of an upgrade but a defect in the basic playability of the product. What you're suggesting is that if a Diamond has ball hop then the customer should pay for this so-called recalibration to correct a problem that shouldn't exist to begin with.

If the table had ball hop to begin with new why would you buy it!!! I was assuming it played great to begin with and just recently had developed this ball hop issue.!!!!

All I was suggesting was a known fix to answer the OP's original question of fixing the problem of balls hopping. I'm not trying to diagnose why there is the ball hop, just offering a mechanic's solution, and NO I don't work for free. Everyone knows the reasons for ball hop is the low or high rail rubber or humidity, dirty cloth or balls or the installer f*cked up the installation. The OP doesn't know for sure if the rails hopped befor or not. I prefer to bypass changeing the cloth as you suggested or cleaning the balls, or reglueing the rubber when I know that when I recalibrate ANY table ****BIG SECRET (this includes recutting the subrail bevel and reglueing the rubber)*** that all of these problems go away. Same solution I use to fix GC rails where mechanics have used k66 profile rubber to save a few bucks.

NEWS FLASH****RAIL RUBBER AND CLOTH,BALLS, CHALK, CUE TIPS ARE ALL CONSIDERED WEAR ITEMS. SOME PEOPLE WEAR THEM OUT IN A YEAR AND SOME WEAR THEM OUT IN LESS OR MORE. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN EQUIPTMENT. HERE IN LAS VEGAS RAIL RUBBER CAN MELT OFF OF THE RAILS!!!!EVERY PART OF THE COUNTRY EXPERIENCES DIFFERENT PROBLEMS

maybe someone sat on the rail and pushed the rubber down?!!!maybe someone spilled a drink and the alcohol solidified the rubber? Who cares if what happened if I know how to fix it.

What if you buy a table and it plays good for a few years and then you sell it and move it to a different enviroment and now it doesn't play as good? should you Go back to the original manufacturer and ask them to pay to fix the table so it plays like new again? I'd spend a few hundred dollars with a top mechanic (RECALIBRATION) to get my table playing at its best possible!!!

I know you guys like stirring up sh*t, I was simply offering a solution.

Good luck on getting a free tune up and overhaul for your table so it plays like it did 2 years ago, before you put on 2000 hours of table time.!!! Maybe they'll throw in new Simonis and Artemis for you and have someone come out and relevel it too.!~!!!!!


GOOD LUCK TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER

GORDON
las vegas

I now know why Glen just gives his phone number to the OP

 

[reverend]

How about asking Brunswick to fix the geometry of the pockets on all their tables as they are not consistent from the factory...How about getting a hold of Olhausen and asking them to replace the facings on all their tables with the "Olhausen rattle"

 

[realkingcobra]

To quote "Mark Gregory"........"the job of a real table mechanic...is to fix, change, repair....or modify a pool table to play at it's best....even if that means correcting the work from the last table mechanic(s)...or the factory that built the table....in order to be called a Professional Table Mechanic"

There are issues that can change a pool table and how it plays after the purchase of the table new. Point is, if the customer was happy from day one with the purchase of the table...then the manufacture is out of the picture after their warranty time frame has expired. And yes, years down the road cushions can change, rails can change, other mechanics can work on the pool table....none of which the manufacture has any control over, therefore no obligation to fix, change, or repair what-so-ever.

And YES, Diamond has paid for repairs to be done to pool tables out of their own pocket....when the customer wasn't happy with the original purchase of their pool table(s)....I know, because I've done the repair or modification work performed to satisfy the customer, along with other table mechanics that I know of who've done the same thing.

"Shit happens" is a statement that covers everything that could happen to a pool table that is NOT under warranty!

Glen

 

[Dartman]

...
maybe someone sat on the rail and pushed the rubber down?!!!maybe someone spilled a drink and the alcohol solidified the rubber? Who cares if what happened if I know how to fix it.
...

I'd expect that since Josh setup the table it would play correctly and if there was a hop issue it would have been addressed at the time of install. What you seem to be suggesting (correct me if wrong) is that recalibrating is the only solution when other less costly or simpler fixes might also resolve the problem.

 

[scruffy1]

Let me ask ALL of you guys something. If you built or calibrated a set of rails for a customer that hopped two months down the road. What would your solution be for the customer.

 

[MOJOE]

Thanks Josh,

Got your email reply as well.. I will be at VNEA state, see you there.

I'll do as suggested and wear the cloth out and have the rails fixed up at years end.. I want to be adjusted to the table banking correctly a few months before DCC next year..

See you in Canton!

Finally got back in the office and read both your e-mails. I also talked to Glen today and he had the same impression about the solution to your problem. Call me any time, but I say play on it some more, and practice your masse and jumps without fear. When you wear that cloth out and the time comes to recover it, we'll rip into them and bring them up to date. It's going to be a couple weeks before I would have a chance to get to them anyway. I've got 4 sets of rails on my bench right now that need work, 9 tables to recover before this weekend, and VNEA State Tournament next weekend (are you going?). Keep in touch though, and when you're ready, we'll get everything right where you want it.

Thanks! We'll talk to you soon.

 

[Dartman]

Thanks Josh,
Got your email reply as well.. I will be at VNEA state, see you there.
I'll do as suggested and wear the cloth out and have the rails fixed up at years end.. I want to be adjusted to the table banking correctly a few months before DCC next year..
See you in Canton!

Reworking the rails should fix/improve the Diamond "banking" problem. In the meantime how about posting up the current nose height measurement from several spots on each rail. Inquiring minds would like to know what the variance is, if any, from 1 7/16"

 

[realkingcobra]

Let me ask ALL of you guys something. If you built or calibrated a set of rails for a customer that hopped two months down the road. What would your solution be for the customer.

If a set of rails was built...or recalibrated using known to be good cushions, and everything played perfect at the time the work was completed, then baring any outside forces...the rails won't change the way they play 2 months down the road...not if the work is performed correctly in the first place

 

[realkingcobra]

Let me ask ALL of you guys something. If you built or calibrated a set of rails for a customer that hopped two months down the road. What would your solution be for the customer.

Outside forces John...being dirty balls, cloth, cheap balls....humidity...etc..

 

[PUTT4DACA$$H]

I assumed

What you seem to be suggesting (correct me if wrong) is that recalibrating is the only solution when other less costly or simpler fixes might also resolve the problem.[/QUOTE]


Dartman:
I forgot to mention the easy, cheap fixes you were looking for:

Unbolt the rails and use cards to shim up the rails and retighten. Now no ball hop!!!!

PROBLEM SOLVED FOR CHEAP.

 

[Dartman]

I forgot to mention the easy, cheap fixes you were looking for:
...

No dude, it's not about the cheap/easy fix - it's about the right fix based on the problem and in this case nobody really knows what the underlying problem is at the moment. I'm sure Josh will get it sorted out to the OP's satisfaction.

 

[Club Billiards]

No dude, it's not about the cheap/easy fix - it's about the right fix based on the problem and in this case nobody really knows what the underlying problem is at the moment. I'm sure Josh will get it sorted out to the OP's satisfaction.

He will.

 

[PUTT4DACA$$H]

Recalibration is the fix

No dude, it's not about the cheap/easy fix - it's about the right fix based on the problem and in this case nobody really knows what the underlying problem is at the moment. .

What easy fix can you possibly get if the rails only hop in certain spots? The rail work needs to be re-done. Just like I said 3 pages ago.

Why are you so worried about the problem and dismiss a proven solution that makes the table play better than new?

I don't understand what answer your searching for, But I do know the correct solution and so does Josh.

 

[matteroner]

So I think we really need to know how this table played when it was new. Was there ball hop then?


i agree that if the table plays great for years and all of a sudden has a problem especially after it was moved or re-worked, then the cause needs to be investigated and the manufacturer is likely not responsible. unless they endorse the person setting up the table.


I would also say that it takes a smart pool table shopper to be able to detect all the problems a particular table may have ...and I don't think that should be held against the consumer ....as the person plays more on the table that's when issues will come up ....and it may take a while for someone to notice this.

but ball hop from the factory, short banks, pocket rattle whatever .... that is manufacturer ....and consumers should expect more ...but i agree that there is a set time frame ....

and I would still like to know if this is a "known issue" and what the exact nature of the problem is? is it a problem that does take time to recognize or occur? what is the flaw in the subrails?

 

[Dartman]

So I think we really need to know how this table played when it was new. Was there ball hop then?
...

Seriously doubt Diamond would have shipped tables with a known ball hop problem so it seems reasonable that something happened after initial delivery/setup.

Gonna backtrack a bit here to the original source of all this recalibration hoopla and Glen - you correct me if wrong since this was your puppy. I recall the recalibration you devised/endorsed was to correct the cushions playing short which had nothing to do with ball hop since that was never a complaint on the forum to my knowledge. I'm not doubting that a recalibration doesn't improve playability however I have some heartburn with one of your trainees pushing this service as the only way to fix a ball hop issue.

 

[sausage]

not a mechanic but let me toss this out there: if the cloth is allowed to "bunch up" under the rail, it will raise the cusion height. can you see a slight gap between the bottom of the rail and the playing surface? i know that you guys are saying that the rails are hitting low but is is possible to get jump from a rail hitting too high also?

Plus every book ever written on pool talks about "angle-in-same angle out" and now these shots all work on a Diamond.

this makes no sense to me as bank shots shorten up more when hit harder. rubber rails cannot behave like a mirror reflecting light.