If your cueball is hopping after contact, it ain't the shaft. It's you.
I have no clue how low-def shafts will cause the cue ball to stay on the table after collision. Sounds like a magic pill to me.
The BIG low deflection Hype Campaign.
- Thread starter Kel_82
- Start date
If your cueball is hopping after contact, it ain't the shaft. It's you.
I have no clue how low-def shafts will cause the cue ball to stay on the table after collision. Sounds like a magic pill to me.
RBC
Deceased
I have always understood what I'm trying to say.
I can't see what's so difficult to understand that the simple off the shelf configurations could easily be tested.
A lot of you just like to give a lot of reasons "why you can't" do something.
I'm the type if guy that thinks, figured out solutions, and makes things happen. I bet your wives and girlfriends aren't very satisfied with your can't do mentality
No you don't understand what you're saying or asking. You want to number that illustrates the amount of deflection that shaft is. The problem with that is, unless you shoot exactly like their tests did, you perception of their statements may be a lie. That's the issue you don't want to comprehend. Unless your stroke matches 100% to the stroke used to define those 'low' deflection numbers, your results will be different.
Notice we have all said what you want is possible. It's not feasible in any shape or form though. You need to take a Probability & Statistics class to fully understand why you will never get want you want. Ask yourself, what is "low" about low deflection? Have the companies, or anyone ever defined what high deflection is? No. They've taken an average baseline for deflection and said theirs is now low deflection.
You want a you can answer. Well here's your you can answer. You can go out and do the testing. Make sure it's thorough, because any gaps or lack of testing and the results are tainted. See you in 10 years.
at some point it may become "super-natural".......this is the secret
Remember, it's "Low Deflection," not "No Deflection".
Some deflection is very beneficial to your game when you know how to utilize it. Without some movement you can't create "ZONES," and therefore can't maximize margin of error.
You won't see professional golfers using golf clubs designed to hit the ball straight every time like amateurs do. There's a very important reason for this fact, and it's all about zones, and creating margin of error.....the same can be said about tennis, the racquets are made to produce "topspin," and movement OFF the straight line.
Our minds do not process straight lines because we have no experience...even as a young kid every ball has had some movement (right/left/up/down) whether we were throwing, kicking, hitting a ball, shooting a bow and arrow, or even rifles (over distance or in wind).
Keep your connection to the game "natural," and at some point it may become "super-natural".......this is the secret of Efren, and the greatest players of all time.
Remember, it's "Low Deflection," not "No Deflection".
Some deflection is very beneficial to your game when you know how to utilize it. Without some movement you can't create "ZONES," and therefore can't maximize margin of error.
You won't see professional golfers using golf clubs designed to hit the ball straight every time like amateurs do. There's a very important reason for this fact, and it's all about zones, and creating margin of error.....the same can be said about tennis, the racquets are made to produce "topspin," and movement OFF the straight line.
Our minds do not process straight lines because we have no experience...even as a young kid every ball has had some movement (right/left/up/down) whether we were throwing, kicking, hitting a ball, shooting a bow and arrow, or even rifles (over distance or in wind).
Keep your connection to the game "natural," and at some point it may become "super-natural".......this is the secret of Efren, and the greatest players of all time.
And if you understand, and don't care. Don't troll. Simple enough
All the evidence has been posted up as to why this is an impossible endeavor. If you solely believe that it's possible to achieve the numbers you require, go out and discover them. From your attitude, you are showing an unwillingness to do things yourself and are demanding other people do it for you. Question of the day: Will the numbers they provide you be enough to convince you to choose that shaft over another one? Those numbers will be an average too.
The only one trolling at this point is you. You have zero evidence to refute what your being told, yet you still wag your finger at the evidence saying that isn't proof enough.
You're giving yourself way too much credit, I am confident nobody cares enough about your opinion to grind their teeth in the least. In fact, it is somewhat unclear exactly what point you're trying to make.
If your point is LD shafts are over hyped, that's purely an opinion and you're welcome to yours. If your point is there is a lack of standards, test methodology and data, that doesn't make pool equipment much different than many other products/sports. If your point is the lack of standards and test data leads to too much variance from one LD shaft to the next, you have no data whatsoever to support that point.
I suspect quality manufacturers, such as OB, could build their shafts to extremely exacting tolerances. However, that would represent going well past the point of diminishing returns and end up pricing the product out of the market. As I stated previously, I am confident the variance from one OB2 shaft to the next is well less than the variance of most human beings pool stroke from one stroke to the next. OB could also post their set of standards, their testing methodology and their test data. However, that in no way obligates their competitors to adopt those same standards, test methodology and therefore, there would be no correlation between the test data. Even in industries such as high tech microelectronics, manufacturers often choose their own standards, ways to specify their components and adopt their own testing methodologies. Along those same lines, many high volume consumers of those components, who build systems, adopt their own set of specifications and testing methodologies they require their vendors to meet in order to do business with them.
If anyone is grinding their teeth here, it seems to be you as your thread likely didn't yield the results you were expecting.
I just wouldn't be the type I imagine to get upset over an Internet thread. Like I said earlier, maybe it just can't be done. But Royce has tested shafts before, clearly.
Oh well. It's easier to just call somebody an idiot for wanting to collect scientific data.
Oh well. It's easier to just call somebody an idiot for wanting to collect scientific data.
What would constitute a low deflection shaft to you?
You're happy with your normal shaft as it is now.
Fantastic post!!! Only a handful can play like Efern. With all the great equipment
out there really doesn't do a diddly doo unless you have the brain to use it
and understand whats really going on.
I never said anything about no squirt or not adjusting for squirt..... My words were
So im not sure where you came up with that.
Let me explain it this way, there are multiple different ways to aim a shot. I could teach you 6-7 just off the top of my head. Some might click for you, some wont. The way I aim is a self taught sight picture. I stand behind the shot, knowing where I need my cue to be pointed, so that when I get down on the shot, Im not aiming per say, Im verifying a shot picture of what I know makes the ball compared to how Im lined up.
With a regular shaft, aiming with side spin as opposed to using bhe you can potentially be aiming out into thin air (i've got one shaft that squirts almost 2 ball widths on a 5-6' shot) which is why people figured out various methods of aiming center ball and applying bhe of some kind. With an LD shaft the sight picture brings you onto the ob even with max side spin if you choose to aim with english. Any time you can take extraneous movements like tuck and roll/bhe out of the stroke is it builds more consistency into your game. And if you cant see the benefit in that I dont know what to tell you.
For my game, to play my top gear consistently I need a minimum of 30-40 hours a week, but I can stay closer to that speed even though I dont put in that amount of table time anymore. And I credit LD shafts for that, because it allows me to aim more like a gun at a wide range of speeds on a target as opposed to granny shooting a free throw and lobbing it in differently each time depending on how hard Im throwing the ball.
Hope this helps
Chuck
And if you understand, and don't care. Don't troll. Simple enough
But that's what makes it so fun, you have been given the answer you were looking for and still are not happy. Go test all the cues you want, who is stopping you exactly
FYI, even more info on this topic can be found here:
"What causes squirt?" resource page
Regards,
Dave
I would be happy to do a comparison test for a small number of shafts if they were sent to me (and if I wasn't required to send them back).
However, the purpose of my recent video was to show how easy it is for anybody to do similar tests with careful procedures. Here's the video:
NV D.15 - Cue and Tip Testing for Cue Ball Deflection (Squirt)
Concerning "robotic tests," they can give more consistent results, but good design and careful procedures must still be in place. Examples of the sorts of things that can lead to misleading "robotic test" results are described here:
robotic squirt testing results and limitations
Regards,
Dave
I wouldn't mind seeing an independent test using a robot like the one meucci used. Although, I would rather just see the cue ball to the rail instead of the object ball to the rail.
It probably wouldn't change my preference of the Jacoby Edge, but am curious of the results.
It can definitely be done.
Some players can benefit from an LD shaft, depending on how they apply english (either intentionally or not), and for some shots more than others. LD shafts have both advantages and disadvantages for different people and for different types of shots.
Regards,
Dave
And change the cloth type and the amount of wear, humidity, how dirty the balls are, etc, etc, etc. Now the shaft costs $500.00. Want one? Care to wait 6 months or longer to receive your new shaft as the cue maker has to send the shaft out to an independent lab for testing before he can sell it?
Have not made the same math comps for mass reduction on our new shafts yet but will do so and post soon. Same feel/feedback as the original shafts.... less cueball deflection.