The Biggest reason Lower level players can't improve ????

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
As far as I'm concerned, cue ball last should be developed because there is a confirmation bias happening when you see the cut angle. IOW you tend to subliminally cinch what you're shooting at. Yes many a machino blaze away in this manner. The problem arises when this automatic shot reasoning starts to drift. You can't tell; for one. And by the time the method fails, it's too late.
Then you you do the jock thing and tough it till you recover.

(lol)
That makes sense. I went down to the table and I found I actually do glance at the cue ball for a bit then back to the object ball before pulling the trigger. If nothing else it helps you remember which spin you're applying. I'm still learning and not some kind of world beater but I cant make jack **** if I don't look at OB last.

About the edit thing, I was using google chrome and there are literally no buttons, no avatars, nothing, just a grey box and quick reply at the bottom. I fired the site up in firefox and it's all there. I feel pretty dumb but there literally was no edit function on chrome for some reason lol. Thanks!
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Gene,

Your comparisons are like everything and everyone's else. You cannot - CANNOT - compare throwing a spear to hitting a pool shot. You CANNOT compare shooting a free throw to hitting a pool shot. You CANNOT compare anything to hitting a pool shot. ITS APPLES TO ORANGES!!!

And I must also disagree when you say the OB is the target. The target is that specific point on the CB where you want to hit with the tip of your cue. That OB isnt going anywhere - the CB is.

Now, having said all of this, I have tried 10,000 times over the years to look at the OB last. Cant do it. Miss a mile. I am CB last all the way.

Now, having said that, I am going down to the table and work on looking at the OB last. But I know what I will find out - that it doesnt work for me.

And when people say "The cue goes where the eyes go".....all I can say is that anyone that believes that needs their head examined.

r/DCP

So everyone is wrong and you”re right. Golf is similar to pool as is baseball, don’t believe me, just read a George Fels article. Yes, you can compare other sports to each other, that’s why they’re called comparisons, not identical endeavors.

And yes, your hands follow your eyes. Don’t like that, well then argue your extensive expertise with every pro golfing coach who ever taught. Argue that with every baseball pitching coach. Who have you actually coached again, remind me, I think I forgot.

Being stubborn is the best way of never reaching your potential. Enjoy or maybe get your head examined, lol
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That makes sense. I went down to the table and I found I actually do glance at the cue ball for a bit then back to the object ball before pulling the trigger. If nothing else it helps you remember which spin you're applying. I'm still learning and not some kind of world beater but I cant make jack **** if I don't look at OB last.

About the edit thing, I was using google chrome and there are literally no buttons, no avatars, nothing, just a grey box and quick reply at the bottom. I fired the site up in firefox and it's all there. I feel pretty dumb but there literally was no edit function on chrome for some reason lol. Thanks!

Yeah sorry. I tend to blurt stuff in these instructional discussions.

Anyways, looking at the cue ball is best done at stick level. There, it requires nothing but eye movement. If you have a more prone stance, angling your head at the cue ball probably re-biases your back and shoulders somewhat.

Looking at the cue ball may not be a do all move but it will come in handy. FI, jacked up on the rail. If you're looking at the object ball and your confirmation bias kicks in, you're probably going to masse the cue ball. At least look twice before crossing. :smile:
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Exactly boogieman....

That makes sense. I went down to the table and I found I actually do glance at the cue ball for a bit then back to the object ball before pulling the trigger. If nothing else it helps you remember which spin you're applying. I'm still learning and not some kind of world beater but I cant make jack **** if I don't look at OB last.

About the edit thing, I was using google chrome and there are literally no buttons, no avatars, nothing, just a grey box and quick reply at the bottom. I fired the site up in firefox and it's all there. I feel pretty dumb but there literally was no edit function on chrome for some reason lol. Thanks!

Look one last time at the cue ball just before the final stroke, look up and fire. Now you know exactly where you are hitting the cue ball with that final quick look.

Watch about 20 pros on utube. You will see the same thing.

The good news is I'm not pulling rabbits out of a hat.

I'd like to see some of these guys play that are way off base. But that is all they know is works for them. As far as they know that is the best way.

There is usually only one best way to do many things. Fortunately many of the pros do things the same way just like the golfers. But the average pool player can't break it down and see only that part they are trying to learn.

Doing over 2,000 lessons on the road for 5 years seeing the same things over and over it makes it real easy to isolate different parts of the game and see just that.

I'm just trying to help players with correct information.

Too bad the bad stuff gets mixed up with the good.

On the internet the guy sitting in his chair that plays 1 hour a week sounds like he knows what he is doing.

The guy that plays 50 hours a week and does around 7 lessons a week helping players all the time sounds like he knows what he is doing.

Guy in the chair plays at a lower level but thinks he plays better.

The other guy worked with 2 of the young guns on the Mosconi Cup when they were 16, 17 years old and helped them on their journey to play at a higher level.

But on the internet the words confuse players and they don't know what to believe.

What a mess. It's really hard to help players on here.

Too much static...:)
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Look one last time at the cue ball just before the final stroke, look up and fire. Now you know exactly where you are hitting the cue ball with that final quick look.

Watch about 20 pros on utube. You will see the same thing.

The good news is I'm not pulling rabbits out of a hat.

I'd like to see some of these guys play that are way off base. But that is all they know is works for them. As far as they know that is the best way.

There is usually only one best way to do many things. Fortunately many of the pros do things the same way just like the golfers. But the average pool player can't break it down and see only that part they are trying to learn.

Doing over 2,000 lessons on the road for 5 years seeing the same things over and over it makes it real easy to isolate different parts of the game and see just that.

I'm just trying to help players with correct information.

Too bad the bad stuff gets mixed up with the good.

On the internet the guy sitting in his chair that plays 1 hour a week sounds like he knows what he is doing.

The guy that plays 50 hours a week and does around 7 lessons a week helping players all the time sounds like he knows what he is doing.

Guy in the chair plays at a lower level but thinks he plays better.

The other guy worked with 2 of the young guns on the Mosconi Cup when they were 16, 17 years old and helped them on their journey to play at a higher level.

But on the internet the words confuse players and they don't know what to believe.

What a mess. It's really hard to help players on here.

Too much static...:)

geno
rabbits, hats, there's more than one way to skin a cat- ?

straight up, I'm not a great player
I'm inexperienced and compared to many here, unpracticed
but one thing I appreciate very much
is being able to come here and bear witness
(and sometimes stick my nose into)
discussions with multiple points of view
personally, I read everything
and come to my own conclusion
but I won't just take a guy's word for it
without first considering those other perspectives
this said, I appreciate yours
keep bringing it, I'll keep reading it
and may we all benefit from the process :thumbup:
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Still amazed at the life this thread has... good stuff.

Here's my take on the "what comes last, OB, CB" debate.

For me, it's the OB entirely. In fact I hardly look at the cue ball, (20% of time). I worked on my fundatmentals for years to become rock solid in my approach and stroke. Dead straight without "loopiness" to my stroke. This also means I aim with my spin. What this does is allow me to focus on what matters...., the OB. What angle I need to hit it and subsequent spin to the CB to move the CB to where I want it next. If I discover that I need to adjust my CB path or applied spin. I glace down, make that adjustment, practice stroke it once, then back on the OB till I pull the trigger.

IMHO, (humble and honest) looking away from the OB prior to striking the CB is a fundamental flaw.

The spear analogy is bad for those who take it literally. That said, if you're doing things right (in my opinion) then the relationship between the cue and CB is a given prior to taking the shot, and the two devices are just waiting for you to "throw" the cue forward. The path the combination takes towards the target is the focus.
 
Last edited:

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you for your honesty.....

geno
rabbits, hats, there's more than one way to skin a cat- ?

straight up, I'm not a great player
I'm inexperienced and compared to many here, unpracticed
but one thing I appreciate very much
is being able to come here and bear witness
(and sometimes stick my nose into)
discussions with multiple points of view
personally, I read everything
and come to my own conclusion
but I won't just take a guy's word for it
without first considering those other perspectives
this said, I appreciate yours
keep bringing it, I'll keep reading it
and may we all benefit from the process :thumbup:

You are exactly who some of us are trying to help.

Only to be covered up by players that have good intensions but only know what they know from learning on their own or the internet.

Many higher level players can play great but don't have a clue how to explain what they do naturally from playing for hours and hours. You can do allot of bad things and still play at a high level.

If anyone goes back thru this thread and checks the comments from players I have worked with on here, most of them for free, and see the glowing comments they will know this is the real deal. I know what the comments will be before they even do the lesson because this is information that every pool player on the planet needs to know. Easy to understand once taught but almost impossible to learn without someone teaching it.

I have taught this to other teachers but they gave up teaching it because they ran into things they didn't understand.

I'll make you this offer. I will do the skype lesson with you for free if you will add your testimonial to all the others on this thread. It will be a great testimonial once you learn these things because you will not only learn these things but you will totally understand how important this is to anyones game.

Some of the things I teach have never been taught or even figured out for that matter. Unchartered territory. I make some teachers angry because I might sound arrogant but I have a right to be. Because I am absolutely correct about what I teach and how much it will help any player at any level.

I put in the work. 5 years on the road. Teaching and learning sometimes doing as many as 25 lessons in a week. This is how I stumbled onto some of these gems that I teach.

If you want to play greater pool this is one show you don't want to miss.

:thumbup:
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You are exactly who some of us are trying to help. Only to be covered up by players that have good intensions but only know what they know from learning on their own or the internet.

Many higher level players can play great but don't have a clue how to explain what they do naturally from playing for hours and hours. You can do allot of bad things and still play at a high level.


I have taught this to other teachers but they gave up teaching it because they ran into things they didn't understand.

Since you have only posted adverteasing, these claims have no relevance or substance.

Examples of adverteasing:

If anyone goes back thru this thread and checks the comments from players I have worked with on here, most of them for free, and see the glowing comments they will know this is the real deal. I know what the comments will be before they even do the lesson because this is information that every pool player on the planet needs to know. Easy to understand once taught but almost impossible to learn without someone teaching it.

I have taught this to other teachers but they gave up teaching it because they ran into things they didn't understand.

I'll make you this offer. I will do the skype lesson with you for free if you will add your testimonial to all the others on this thread. It will be a great testimonial once you learn these things because you will not only learn these things but you will totally understand how important this is to anyones game.

Some of the things I teach have never been taught or even figured out for that matter. Unchartered territory. I make some teachers angry because I might sound arrogant but I have a right to be. Because I am absolutely correct about what I teach and how much it will help any player at any level.

I put in the work. 5 years on the road. Teaching and learning sometimes doing as many as 25 lessons in a week. This is how I stumbled onto some of these gems that I teach.

If you want to play greater pool this is one show you don't want to miss.

:thumbup:
 

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
Gene is a great player and the method he has developed has worked over the years.

If you don't like it fine, but no need to hijack his thread for BS.

Since you have only posted adverteasing, these claims have no relevance or substance.

Examples of adverteasing:
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Since you have only posted adverteasing, these claims have no relevance or substance.

Examples of adverteasing:

Well Genomachino came to AZB years ago, hyping his "Perfect Aiming System" & DVD by the same name.

Hawking his $80.00 CD. If the man was some World Class player he would be a sponsored player. Non of the places like Pool Dawg, Muellers, Seberts, etc, have his "Perfect Aiming DVD" in their inventory for sale. Wonder why if it the holly grail?

Like I said before I have actually view the DVD, returned it to it owner, Fast Larry of Lawrenceville, GA. Say nothing that personally excited me.

Aiming or perfect aiming is only one small part of a person arsenal of tools to play pool. If you can not hit a ball straight down the length of a 9 foot table, and get it to roll back in a straight line, you got problems, and there are a lot of other, if's that are all skills one must master to become a better player.

Genomachino is a pretty good salesman, I expect he could make a good living selling Jewelery, Cars, or Hime Improvements. JMHO
 

smoochie

NotLikeThis
Gene,

Your comparisons are like everything and everyone's else. You cannot - CANNOT - compare throwing a spear to hitting a pool shot. You CANNOT compare shooting a free throw to hitting a pool shot. You CANNOT compare anything to hitting a pool shot. ITS APPLES TO ORANGES!!!

And I must also disagree when you say the OB is the target. The target is that specific point on the CB where you want to hit with the tip of your cue. That OB isnt going anywhere - the CB is.

Now, having said all of this, I have tried 10,000 times over the years to look at the OB last. Cant do it. Miss a mile. I am CB last all the way.

Now, having said that, I am going down to the table and work on looking at the OB last. But I know what I will find out - that it doesnt work for me.

And when people say "The cue goes where the eyes go".....all I can say is that anyone that believes that needs their head examined.

r/DCP

Umm, there's noway you're looking at the cueball last, I am literally curious to watch this, you're doing it wrong if you zone in and only look at the cueball last, in other words, as you hit the cueball, it is ok to look at the cueball but once the cueball leaves your cue and as it is traveling to your object ball, tell me, are you looking at your object ball or the cueball? because this is the trick.

I'm interested to watch a 10second clip of you shooting a straight in shot from a distance of say 6 ft apart, let me watch that you are looking at the CB last, because I doubt it.


EDIT: you must be just understanding the forums here wrong, maybe you think looking at the OB last meaning as you hit the cueball your eyes are on the cueball, because thats not what they mean, if thats what you're trying to do while practicing to try and look at the OB last as the forums tell you, then this is not what they mean, thats all I'm gonna say here.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gene is a great player and the method he has developed has worked over the years.

If you don't like it fine, but no need to hijack his thread for BS.

Hijack spam**? Rather than post any meaningful content regarding the product, GM is now pooing any detractors along with their concerns. Trust me I'm in no danger of developing a following lol but the nibblers like myself are the only thing legitimizing this thread.

**see "no such thing as bad publicity"
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well Genomachino came to AZB years ago, hyping his "Perfect Aiming System" & DVD by the same name.

Hawking his $80.00 CD. If the man was some World Class player he would be a sponsored player. Non of the places like Pool Dawg, Muellers, Seberts, etc, have his "Perfect Aiming DVD" in their inventory for sale. Wonder why if it the holly grail?

Like I said before I have actually view the DVD, returned it to it owner, Fast Larry of Lawrenceville, GA. Say nothing that personally excited me.

Aiming or perfect aiming is only one small part of a person arsenal of tools to play pool. If you can not hit a ball straight down the length of a 9 foot table, and get it to roll back in a straight line, you got problems, and there are a lot of other, if's that are all skills one must master to become a better player.

Genomachino is a pretty good salesman, I expect he could make a good living selling Jewelery, Cars, or Hime Improvements. JMHO

Thanks for posting this.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Umm, there's noway you're looking at the cueball last, I am literally curious to watch this, you're doing it wrong if you zone in and only look at the cueball last, in other words, as you hit the cueball, it is ok to look at the cueball but once the cueball leaves your cue and as it is traveling to your object ball, tell me, are you looking at your object ball or the cueball? because this is the trick.

I'm interested to watch a 10second clip of you shooting a straight in shot from a distance of say 6 ft apart, let me watch that you are looking at the CB last, because I doubt it.


EDIT: you must be just understanding the forums here wrong, maybe you think looking at the OB last meaning as you hit the cueball your eyes are on the cueball, because thats not what they mean, if thats what you're trying to do while practicing to try and look at the OB last as the forums tell you, then this is not what they mean, thats all I'm gonna say here.

I took up looking at the cue ball last, years ago. Incidentally it was to address issues with jacked up shots the long way; and indeed anything jacked up. With all the free time nowadays, I've been experimenting with doing it on every shot. It's a learned if not exactly intuitive for poolers, behavior.
"And that's not all!!1!1!!1!!1!!" (lol) it's amazing how much this simple move reveals about your shotmaking.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gene is a great player and the method he has developed has worked over the years.

If you don't like it fine, but no need to hijack his thread for BS.

Not only a great player but a great person as well. He does a lot of free lessons on his material as well. Plus it's top notch information.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
.....but the nibblers like myself are the only thing legitimizing this thread.

Really...? I thought all the positive feedback from those who have dealt with Gene is what has legitimized this thread. The poo poo'ers are just that, and offer nothing but view/post count. No different than any other thread on AZ with active self righteous arm chair quarterbacks.

All that said, when the focus of this thread was on eye dominance, I was discreetly poo poo'ing as much as anyone else. I didn't doubt the phyiscal manifestation of eye dominance but how it could keep players from playing well escaped me. Gene privately offered me a free Skype lesson mulitple times. At first I refused, but then for what I thought would be for entertainment sake, I took him up on it. I went through some short drills with him and he uncovered some aspects of my aiming process that I had always white washed as a part of the game. Truth be told, I was compensating, and I'll add, I am really good at that compensating. However it was enlightening to have someone explain to me what was actually going on.

Gene was an absolute pleasure to deal with. Made absolutely no sales pitch to buy any DVD. Did not even elude to the notion that I should post a review of my time spent with him. However, I did anyways. Why...? Because I felt a man of his obvious character and ethusiasum for the game, deserved what positive light I could shine in his direction. I hope to one day meet the man in person and buy him a drink.

Not only a great player but a great person as well. He does a lot of free lessons on his material as well. Plus it's top notch information.

What cookie man said... I don't have a problem with people thinking their opinions make more sense then Gene's. Even if he's 100% correct, it won't mean he approach is right for everyone. However, Gene's character and his desire to help players improve is without reproach. Just because the man is so good at it, he also has to ability to earn some coin along the way doesn't make him a swindler.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
@ JV & Cookie Man

I make no claims of GMs character or personality; only that he doesn't offer any information. The reviews, however sincere, are equally unsubstantiated.

He has though, maligned and dismissed methods contrary to his approach as ineffective.

Gist is only customers get info. ie. (as if this needs pointing out), the thread is spam. Until he can detail what he is selling, spam is all it is.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
@ JV & Cookie Man

I make no claims of GMs character or personality; only that he doesn't offer any information. The reviews, however sincere, are equally unsubstantiated.

He has though, maligned and dismissed methods contrary to his approach as ineffective.

Gist is only customers get info. ie. (as if this needs pointing out), the thread is spam. Until he can detail what he is selling, spam is all it is.

Fair enough... ...and I did quote directly so I will apologize for what was meant to be a generalization that ended up being focused on your comments.

Gene is no different than any other who feels their approach is the best. He gets results so he believes in his methods. This is no different than those who are claiming that his point of view is incorrect. Opposing views within a thread that was meant to focus on one of them.

I, and many others within this thread are not customers of Gene. Like those others, I received eye dominance information from him pro bono. He also went through the basics of he aiming system, which I personally had no interest in. Other to say I witnessed his concept.

I'll admit the ongoing conversation is great advertising for Gene. The thread is only spam if you continue to open it.

"Definitions. The term "spam" is internet slang that refers to unsolicited commercial email (UCE) or unsolicited bulk email (UBE). Some people refer to this kind of communication as junk email to equate it with the paper junk mail that comes through the US Mail"
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fair enough... ...and I did quote directly so I will apologize for what was meant to be a generalization that ended up being focused on your comments.

Gene is no different than any other who feels their approach is the best. He gets results so he believes in his methods. This is no different than those who are claiming that his point of view is incorrect. Opposing views within a thread that was meant to focus on one of them.

I, and many others within this thread are not customers of Gene. Like those others, I received eye dominance information from him pro bono. He also went through the basics of he aiming system, which I personally had no interest in. Other to say I witnessed his concept.

I'll admit the ongoing conversation is great advertising for Gene. The thread is only spam if you continue to open it.

"Definitions. The term "spam" is internet slang that refers to unsolicited commercial email (UCE) or unsolicited bulk email (UBE). Some people refer to this kind of communication as junk email to equate it with the paper junk mail that comes through the US Mail"
I have no stake in this except GM specifically insists looking at the cue ball last is no good. That notion is completely false. I even detailed how it works. What's a mother to do? :frown:

:D
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I have no stake in this except GM specifically insists looking at the cue ball last is no good. That notion is completely false. I even detailed how it works. What's a mother to do? :frown:

:D

lol.... I hear ya. How about we say looking at the CB last "isn't as good"...?

I think I said earlier, but I'm a OB last kind of guy. What's happening with the CB has alreadly been sorted out prior to final aiming. I credit my fundamentals for that.

Rather than back checking through the thread and looking for the potential answer for myself. Can you detail why you opt to view the CB last...? What is it your looking to verify at the CB and run the risk of falling off the aiming line you have already sorted out...?
 
Top