According to internet folklore, and the Beard's book, it might be Artie Bordenforder. I have no first hand knowledge
The Gambling Process
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
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Artie was flush or broke though, I thought.According to internet folklore, and the Beard's book, it might be Artie Bordenforder. I have no first hand knowledge
I don't think he was in it for anything other than the gamble.
When I’m saying “Entry fees staked by others IMO is not the same a gambling with a backer” I’m talking about the mental part of the game/gamble.
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Maybe I should've put it this way: What player, at the end of his gambling career, could've retired with the biggest nest egg based solely on his gambling winnings and outside investments he financed with those winnings, and never would have had to worry about money after that?According to internet folklore, and the Beard's book, it might be Artie Bordenforder. I have no first hand knowledge
Another player who comes to mind is C. J. Wiley, but I'm not sure how much of my knowledge of his financial prowess goes beyond what he's said about himself.
Artie had a lot of money he made on sports betting. He’s better at that then he ever was pool, he is a savant at sports betting. Sharpest of the sharps-I lived in Vegas ~30 years and seen it all-twice. Even Billy Walters took notes when Artie spoke.
Best
Fatboy
Best
Fatboy
I enjoyed Billy Walter's book. I also enjoyed Artie's posts on ONE POCKET ORG. I always wondered if they were friendly or not due to the similarity of their professions and experiences.Artie had a lot of money he made on sports betting. He’s better at that then he ever was pool, he is a savant at sports betting. Sharpest of the sharps-I lived in Vegas ~30 years and seen it all-twice. Even Billy Walters took notes when Artie spoke.
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Fatboy
I talked to Bill Stroud around 1966 when he was still on the road. He was proud of banking $30k per year, which was a lot of money then. The inflation calculator says it is like $300,000 today. Of course, Bill changed jobs, but the pool nest egg made that possible.
Do a search on Jack Cooney for another candidate.
Bill was unique, he saved part of his winning.
How many other road players did the same thing?
Those two playing eachother was 100% gambling.
Which one couldn't lose? If you can lose, you are gambling
Are you playing for pride or money? If it's for money, then the only thing that matters is getting the money.
Can you eat Pride? Can you drive Pride?
If you have the option of doing the easier job or the harder job for the same $$$ which would 95% of people choose?
Gambling, wagering, hustling, there are no universal black & white truths in these definitions. Some may have problems/issues with their own definition is to what these words mean. I have issue with a cheat and none of these words mean that to me… that’s my truth.
I used to fish a lot. When I tossed out something tasty or that looked tasty I didn't advertise it had a hook in it. When I went in a bar or pool hall and started tuning up aiming the medium difficulty shots and harder at points, well that was just hiding the hook. Nobody had to bite and I had a set of ethics that included not raising the bet over five dollars myself. Sometimes the bet started for much more but if a banger came in off the street and wanted to play for three or five dollars he didn't get hurt. If a hustler craftily stalled until he had massaged the bet up to twenty or fifty a game and then found out he was the little fish, well... Big fish eat little fish as the great Smorg always said!
Funny thing, until I came on AZB I never considered what I was doing hustling. Hustling was an active hustle in my mind, I wasn't actively stalking suckers or jacking the bet. Back when I was a beginner I was told that hustling was what pool players did so I tried an active hustle. Made a few dollars but it left such a bad taste in my mouth that I didn't try again for six months. Made a few bucks again, still didn't like it, that was my last active hustle over fifty years ago!
Hu
When I met Artie in 07-08 he wasn’t friendly with him then. I’m not sure they were ever friends. They were in the same biz and there was friction between them as they were both chasing value bets and information, they were competitors. They weren’t friends.
That’s what I picked up listening to Artie. I have never met or spoke to Billy Walter’s. I know guys who were runners for him-some well known people in the pool world. (I can’t say who, but you’d be surprised - this was before I came to town in 91). Vegas was a small town.
Billy learned a few tricks of the trade from Artie, that didn’t sit well with him. But it’s a rough biz they were in-in that era and guys did what they had to do. They weren’t going to yoga together-that’s for sure!
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Fatboy
basically i was called nothing but a thief from frosty because i try to get an edge when i gamble and wont take an even gamble. which many times i do. but not knowingly at pool. he wasnt the first.
my fault for adding any real info about anything on forums as too many assholes ruin it for me.
and sad for forums as they allow personal attacks to posts not personally directed toward anyone in particular.
my fault for adding any real info about anything on forums as too many assholes ruin it for me.
and sad for forums as they allow personal attacks to posts not personally directed toward anyone in particular.
I noticed a couple things that sure looked like personal attacks directed your way from frosty. l think he would probably get a rap on the knuckles if they were reported. Admin and mods don't read every post and often miss things.
Nobody tries to matchup at pool to lose on a regular basis. They might do it to play a legend just to say they played them but mostly you match up to win. UJ Puckett said it perfectly, "I gave them what they asked for, I didn't give them what they needed to win!"
Just the way it was. People came to play pool, not sit at the counter and dicker for hours to try to get half a ball more than they needed! Now people should be carrying brief cases instead of pool cases. I think some halls should take out half the tables to add counterspace where people can stand and debate. Maybe call their joints pool halls and debating societies.
Hu
I parlayed 15K won from playing pool into a poolroom that made 75K a year in the 1970's. Invested some of that into real estate and turned it into 10M (after only 40 years!). It took a lifetime but it was a winning parlay.
Logged in just to laugh.
How come not a single person linked the best pool instructional video on gambling of all time? It clearly explains everything.
It exceeds the scope of this thread by detailing a process that always wins.