My pleasure Will. And I hope that the thread is contributed to by more people because the one thing I keep finding out is how much I don't know.
Thank you to everyone who is helping to fill in the gaps.
The History of Cue Cases?
- Thread starter JB Cases
- Start date
My pleasure Will. And I hope that the thread is contributed to by more people because the one thing I keep finding out is how much I don't know.
Thank you to everyone who is helping to fill in the gaps.
What a great thread.:thumbup:....I hope many case maker can make some post in this thread. I believe many of us will gain a lot of benefit from them.
Let's see, after Martin we have Gina, Viking, Adam, Fellini, Centennial, Ann Gore/Manx, It's George, Schon, Kelli, McDermott, Ron Thomas and GTF.
Did I miss any?[/QUOTE]
John,
To your list, a couple of obvious ones that have been talked about. Just mentioning so the list stays complete. Others can add on also:
Sam Engles
Jim Knott
Thanks.
Will Prout
Did I miss any?[/QUOTE]
John,
To your list, a couple of obvious ones that have been talked about. Just mentioning so the list stays complete. Others can add on also:
Sam Engles
Jim Knott
Thanks.
Will Prout
Chris...Something to note about the Brunswick cases. Yours had a snap closure...mine had a buckle. When I got my Balabushka (purchased from George in Oct. 75, 3 months before his death), it came with a Brunswick case. At the time I didn't know they even came with snaps...only buckles.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Nice job on this, John.
I would like to add something about the fly rod and cue case connection.
The picture below shows a fly rod case (left side) made in the 1930's and branded "Lyon and Coulson, Buffalo, New York", a sporting goods supplier. This is the case I believe was adapted by Brunswick in the 1940's to use for cues. The case has a flip tip lid with straps. It's hard to see it in pictures, but the case also has a tooled design. Brunswick offered a "Deluxe" case in the 1950's which was used in the movie "The Hustler" with a nearly identical tooling pattern. This case also features a strap and handle configuration later used by Jay Flowers and is still used on many cue cases.
The case to the far right is my Jack Justis daily playing case from the mid 1990's.
Chris
Scott,
Most of them do have the belt - I have no clue how I came across this one with the snap, but it's original. In fact, it basically doesn't look like it was ever used. It has the 1960's Brunswick logo with the "crown". I didn't even know Brunswick made cases into the 1970's. George also used Palmer cases and gave those with his cues for many years.
Check this out. During the 1950's and into the 1960's, Brunswick made two different styles of cases, 1) the Expert, which is a little thicker and has some padding and a luggage style handle, and the more common one 2) the Aristocrat. This is from the 1952 catalog.
http://www.palmercollector.com/Brunswick/Brunswick_1952_page_13.jpg
I wish you still had every old cue you owned. I now have 4 or 5 Eddie Laube's that you introduced me to. They're pretty cool cues.
Chris
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Chris...I remember that Eddie Laube cue well. I got it off a pool player in El Paso TX in 1975 for $100. The cue was unique (it was the first quality cue I had seen with the screw in the shaft, rather than the butt), and since I was from Chicago, I made a stop in to Eddie's shop the next time I was in Chicago. He was still there, but was planning to shut the shop down within a few months. He was quite proud of his 'patented joint design', and told me that the joints were machined so well, that any shaft he ever made would match up perfectly with any butt he ever made. He never would tell me what the material was, on the shaft, above the screw...but the ferrule was buckhorn, something else I had not seen before on a cue. I loved collecting cues for many years, but as I sold them off, they drifted into my own history. Thanks for your help with a couple of the last ones!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
John, great posts. This should be uploaded to wiki or something!
Also, I'd love to know how you guys get your ends so nice. Honestly, they look folded then tucked under the centerpiece (like 2 right angles). Your leathers also have that more plush look, which surely settles better than 'regular' full corner wrapped cases. The closest thing I could tie your leather too would be Whittens nice hides, yet yours still appear more plush. Both of which are nothing like what Bob H typically used (nearly stiff linoleum sheets). Suede or any other 'haired hide' was probably the only material that hid seems at the end better for him. And anything with a pattern at all only served to further reveal the gaps.
I'm still hand cutting and 'massaging' as you put it. I don't skiv, but once in a while you get a few tabs that just don't cooperate, so I might try that here and there.
Lastly, I only skimmed this thread, but I didn't catch any mention of either the envelope style or the early hinged box type cases... I'd have to guess the envelope also came from fishing, and the box type possibly from musical instrument cases. Both of these were some biggies before any tubes showed up.
Also, I'd love to know how you guys get your ends so nice. Honestly, they look folded then tucked under the centerpiece (like 2 right angles). Your leathers also have that more plush look, which surely settles better than 'regular' full corner wrapped cases. The closest thing I could tie your leather too would be Whittens nice hides, yet yours still appear more plush. Both of which are nothing like what Bob H typically used (nearly stiff linoleum sheets). Suede or any other 'haired hide' was probably the only material that hid seems at the end better for him. And anything with a pattern at all only served to further reveal the gaps.
I'm still hand cutting and 'massaging' as you put it. I don't skiv, but once in a while you get a few tabs that just don't cooperate, so I might try that here and there.
Lastly, I only skimmed this thread, but I didn't catch any mention of either the envelope style or the early hinged box type cases... I'd have to guess the envelope also came from fishing, and the box type possibly from musical instrument cases. Both of these were some biggies before any tubes showed up.
For the purpose of the thread when I started it I confined it to top-loading tubular cases using plastic tubes. There is definitely a lot more history of cue cases and also containers in general to be explored.
As for the hand-finished ends (seems like the best term) - I think that it's essential to skive the leather when using stiffer types of leather. I can only see issues happening with trying to bend leather around curves and expect it to stay in place with glue only with such a small surface area. We use all types of leather from veg tan to chrome-tanned prints and find that we have to use slightly different methods for each. Ostrich for example is mushy like clay and surprisingly difficult to get to stay in place without distortion.
We did make a template that we use to cut the tabs on the ends and that helps a lot. But the leather doesn't always lay down right even with the template cuts so we have to do quite a bit of hand-fitting and trimming to make it settle correctly. The ends of the tabs are folded into the center recess and the centerpiece is then wedged in place to keep the leather from moving. it seems as if this technique works so far as we haven't had any situations in the past three years where the tabs have come up or split.
I have had some thicker veg tan shrink and cause the leather to separate and we have found that skiving/sanding to reduce the thickness solves this.
I haven't seen a lot of Fellinis but the one I have is made from a piece of impressed split leather which is generally stiffer than the full grain chrome tan. We use the same on some cases but as I said we tend to sand the ends to make them more pliable. I have seen many Fellinis where the ends have survived intact as near to perfect as one could want. Mine is in pretty good shape.
Me: "Lastly, I only skimmed this thread, but I didn't catch any mention of either the envelope style or the early hinged box type cases... I'd have to guess the envelope also came from fishing, and the box type possibly from musical instrument cases. Both of these were some biggies before any tubes showed up."
JB: "For the purpose of the thread when I started it I confined it to top-loading tubular cases using plastic tubes. There is definitely a lot more history of cue cases and also containers in general to be explored."
John, my above statement was not directed at you, merely an observation about the entire thread and all it's contributions.
JB: "For the purpose of the thread when I started it I confined it to top-loading tubular cases using plastic tubes. There is definitely a lot more history of cue cases and also containers in general to be explored."
John, my above statement was not directed at you, merely an observation about the entire thread and all it's contributions.
Sure. In fact I'd like to invite everyone to upload anything that they have with as much information as they have on cue cases.
What's the Q-Ster? King Kustoms from Memphis? How about McKernann?
Has anyone here ever seen a picture of a Jim Knott case? Jim Walker?
Or even the Gina case I spoke of?
I wish I could get more pictures of the cases I made the first two years. I lost an entire album of all those cases and another album with the handwritten orders. :-(
So AZ feel free to share your stories of case makers you know about.
History of Cue Cases
John, Thank you so much for your kind words. Steve
John, Thank you so much for your kind words. Steve
I have a leather Brunswick Crown case with a handle that is set into brass ends. Kind of spring loaded, or just very tight. When it's not in use the handle stays flat, it takes a little pressure to get it out of the brass ends.
JV
Thanks!
I just came across this post and thoroughly enjoyed it. To the top
I just came across this post and thoroughly enjoyed it. To the top
I recently acquired a few vintage and 'vintage look' cases, and came across this thread while searching for more information. Weird that it was in response to a question I asked John, but somehow I don't think I ever read it!
Anyway, still a great thread - thanks John.
Anyway, still a great thread - thanks John.
It is an excellent thread and I have visited it many times.
John has a wealth of information to offer as well as perspectives and opinions on case design and engineering as well as case history as is evident here.
I am as much a case collector as I am a cue collector and I am very interested in the history. It is one of my motivations in collecting.
.
I am not a case collector, but after you have had a few great cases it is hard to go back to crappy ones. I have been using an Instroke 'Nature' for 14 years, but would like a 2-butt case that will hold fatter butt cues. I tried a few 2x4 George cases, but the insert/extraction process was a pain in the butt <==see what I did there? I am looking forward to a new one that is arriving Saturday
Absolutely, it is a great thread, and I'm a bit of a case collector myself. Big surprise, I know. Fellinis, Justis, Instroke, Whitten, and others.
I'll add one thing. The original thread focused on hard tube style cases, and I know this departs from the theme, but I think the suitcase style case deserves a bit of recognition. They're pretty recognizable, Palmer, McDermott, and Schmelke had or have their variants. I happen to think the O'Neill cases were the best of that bunch, just an opinion. Willie Mosconi carried Palmer suitcases for years. How can you argue with that? Anyhow, just an example of nice O'Neills: Makes you want to fix a martini.
All the best,
WW
Attachments
I agree 100%. No one made a box case of the same quality, fit, and finish of an O'Neil which is why they are my choice for cue storage.
Mark even made me several cases with special configurations and one with a white interior.