The Hustle, Hustlers, and how the Hustler Works

PoolSleuth

PoolSleuth

Banned
Have you ever been personally Hustled in Pool, loosing more money than you should have to a Hustler?

Only to realize after the fact you were the Victim of a Pool Hustler, or Road Player.

If you do not mind admitting to this how did it happen, and how did the Hustle Work.

Had you had the experience to do over again when would you have simple walked away from the game with the Hustlers money, and you in the BLACK
 
I don't really gamble much but I did get hustled by this road player.

He comes up saying that he is local and shoots a bit, wants to use my cue, trys to call bar rules on me(oh hey you didnt call that carom even though I called ball+pocket), misses "easy" shots with a dead-straight stroke, and generally gives me this "really bad actor" vibe.

Anyway, after shooting a couple games and obviously laying it on thick, I have to go and he reveals that he is better than he was letting on, and I was like "duh" then he wants to play a game to prove how good he is, and having seen many a good player in my day I finally get him to let it drop.

Not wanting to let me get away without winning something off me(is that a big deal with hustlers), he basically won't let me leave until I gamble with him so he wants to bet me $40(I think I only had $40) on a coin flip, I'm reluctant so he wants to give me 2:1 odds $80 for $40, I can tell he just wants to win some money so I feign reluctance(hell I am a science major I would never turn down positive odds on a coin flip) and get $90 for $40.

Coin flip goes my way(actually I can fake the toss but it was totally legit), and he wants to bet for $100(I figure the original $40-$80 was so he could win $20 off me on second bet), I win that toss too(all legit) and get the money but he swipes it and claims I am rigging things either with my coin or toss.

Anyway, he makes a little stink then says he needs to go talk to his friend at the bar(road buddy)... I'm not one to let it drop so I get him back over, talk to him and seeing as I was not even a local and he had a buddy, I talked him into giving me the $90 and calling it even.

His voice changes, he's now from new york(not a suprise to me) and he gives me some good advice: "Everyone will try to screw you if given the chance, everyone".

Long story short, I always keep my hands near the money and I'll only gamble in situations I have a good out if the better decides to strongarm..

Other than that I'm a good read of character and can usually spot them a mile away....(hell I spotted him but you cant turn down $40-$90 odds on a 50:50 flip)


whew... thats about it... anyway that was more strongarmed by a pool player rather than hustled at pool, but hope you dont mind the space..

In any case, if its a hustler be wary of ANY propositions they make as they probably have a way of getting out of it if needed....
 
PoolSleuth said:
Have you ever been personally Hustled in Pool, loosing more money than you should have to a Hustler?

Only to realize after the fact you were the Victim of a Pool Hustler, or Road Player.

If you do not mind admitting to this how did it happen, and how did the Hustle Work.

Had you had the experience to do over again when would you have simple walked away from the game with the Hustlers money, and you in the BLACK
Click to expand...

Lots of times, when you play in the same place or own a room and it is known you will play you are a target. Sometimes they get a surprise though and you play a little better then the line they had on you. I beat Mike Sigel the first time I met him on a bar table. He thought he was sneaking in but it didn't matter he couldn't win anyway the place was a real trap for road players, with a horrible dirty 7 foot table, dirty balls, a cueball you couldn't draw an inch, balls would jump out of the pockets, a real dump, I loved it. He offered me almost any spot I wanted to go to a pool room I beat him out of like $700. and he was really pissed.

I beat a lot of good players in that place Richie Ambroes, Steve Gumphrie and lots of unknown road player. Sometimes the hustler gets hustled. You know when you own a pool room though you can be a real sucker. If you go off to someone there will be players there everyday looking to play you, either really be careful making games or quit gambling with strangers because if a guy asks to play chances are you can't win.

Freddie the Beard hustled me although I wasn't his target just collateral damage, he just didn't look like he could play that well. He would keep rotating his cue in his hand and played so slow. He was there for a week and I still didn't know how good he played till a friend Sugar Shack clued me in. Gean Nagy beat me pretty good but ended up the loser.

I learned later he was to play a guy they had visions of winning like $10,000 from and he plays me for no real reason in the afternoon and instead of quitting when he see's I can play he opens up to beat me and kills the action with the other guy. He won like $300 and lost maybe $10,000. Truth is though, this other guy was very cautious and it would have taken a player with a much better act to get him then Nagy, who seemed like a terrible hustler.
 
MacGyver said:
I don't really gamble much but I did get hustled by this road player.

He comes up saying that he is local and shoots a bit, wants to use my cue, trys to call bar rules on me(oh hey you didnt call that carom even though I called ball+pocket), misses "easy" shots with a dead-straight stroke, and generally gives me this "really bad actor" vibe.

Anyway, after shooting a couple games and obviously laying it on thick, I have to go and he reveals that he is better than he was letting on, and I was like "duh" then he wants to play a game to prove how good he is, and having seen many a good player in my day I finally get him to let it drop.

Not wanting to let me get away without winning something off me(is that a big deal with hustlers), he basically won't let me leave until I gamble with him so he wants to bet me $40(I think I only had $40) on a coin flip, I'm reluctant so he wants to give me 2:1 odds $80 for $40, I can tell he just wants to win some money so I feign reluctance(hell I am a science major I would never turn down positive odds on a coin flip) and get $90 for $40.

Coin flip goes my way(actually I can fake the toss but it was totally legit), and he wants to bet for $100(I figure the original $40-$80 was so he could win $20 off me on second bet), I win that toss too(all legit) and get the money but he swipes it and claims I am rigging things either with my coin or toss.

Anyway, he makes a little stink then says he needs to go talk to his friend at the bar(road buddy)... I'm not one to let it drop so I get him back over, talk to him and seeing as I was not even a local and he had a buddy, I talked him into giving me the $90 and calling it even.

His voice changes, he's now from new york(not a suprise to me) and he gives me some good advice: "Everyone will try to screw you if given the chance, everyone".

Long story short, I always keep my hands near the money and I'll only gamble in situations I have a good out if the better decides to strongarm..

Other than that I'm a good read of character and can usually spot them a mile away....(hell I spotted him but you cant turn down $40-$90 odds on a 50:50 flip)


whew... thats about it... anyway that was more strongarmed by a pool player rather than hustled at pool, but hope you dont mind the space..

In any case, if its a hustler be wary of ANY propositions they make as they probably have a way of getting out of it if needed....
Click to expand...

Was his name Kenny?
 
macguy said:
I learned later he was to play a guy they had visions of winning like $10,000 from and he plays me for no real reason in the afternoon and instead of quitting when he see's I can play he opens up to beat me and kills the action with the other guy. He won like $300 and lost maybe $10,000.
Click to expand...

He should have watched the COM. LOL Jake
 
I have been hustled many, many times. If you are the type that gambles on a regular basis and are in the pool room alot I would be surprised if you were NOT hustled at least one time.

Nearly all the times I was hustled was when a good player was sent into the room with full recon on who was in the room to play. When I lived in Gainesville, Johnny Ferber use to send guys into the room periodically to try and bust us. Action in Gainesville in the late 80s/early 90s was so sparse that if someone in there wanted to match up for a $100 set, the regulars acted like water had just been offered to them in the middle of the Sahara desert. Scotty Townsend beat me in this exact manner. Another time in Miami, a local player brought in a good woman player from Texas and made out like it was his new girlfriend. Got me to give her the 7/8 when it was probably like the last 2 or even to be in line. The best hustles I have seen are always when the player hustling has the line on your speed and betting tendencies.

Like macguy says though, sometimes knowing the room and being comfortable with quirks of a table can help you turn the tables or allow you to play above your head. I beat Whitey Walker on the panama joes 4x8 when I think he had the best of it, and I busted Richie Richeson at Little Davids Pool room in Jax on a gaffe Gandy 9fter. (Richie came back and won the money back the next day on a Gold Crown at a different pool hall). Probably my favorite memory though is beating Double J in a race to 9 for 200 when he had me 8-0 (this was in 1992). Jeremy of course beat me a few days later and got the money back. What can I say, sometimes I like to play too much for my own good. :rolleyes:
 
That coin flip guy sounds like someone I would like to meet. Anyways I don't think I have ever been hustled. I'm sure someone played off a bit when they got ahead just to keep me playing but nothing I have ever noticed. And I don't hustle. I always give my best game even if that means scaring them off. I think sub-conciously though sometimes I back off if I'm killing a guy but thats it. I just don't have it in me to rob someone.:(
 
I live by the rule of never accepting a proposition bet (especially from an unknown) By this I mean...coin flip, a certain shot on the table etc. etc..

I read once that if a player walks into the pool room and says that for $50 he can make the cueball go 5 rails then fly in the air, land in a gass of beer and then jump out of the glass and squirt beer in your ear....you can be certain that if you take the bet, you will be $50 worse off and have an ear full of beer :-)....IOW, no matter how crazy the bet sounds, don't take it unless you know the gaff and know how to beat it.
 
The coin flip for cash is an old move to get the target gambling. Once you get them gambling, it becomes easier to move the action to the pool table. I have seen the same move used with cards, liars poker, video golf...you name it.
 
jjinfla said:
He should have watched the COM. LOL Jake
Click to expand...

This was long before color of money but the same deal. Nagy I guess had too much ego to hustle pool. We were playing straight pool and he could not resist showing off his speed and on top of that talking about who he knows and coming off like a real player. Weenie Beenie used to gamble a lot with the guy that Nagy was to sneak up on and probably had something to with with Nagy showing up. It's pretty common actually though, a lot of players are just not hustlers and like to show how they can play. The depitcion in the movie of what Tom Cruse did I bet has happened to every backer who ever took a player on the road.
 
I wasn't hustled recently, but I inadvertently was made a shill by a road player. I entered a little local tourney a while back. I'm one of the lowest rated players in the tourney, and in my first match, I draw this new guy that was "visiting from Michigan with a couple of buddies". If you're not rated locally, you have to start at the top of the heap. Being I'm a rated banger, I get a three game handicap. I beat this guy so bad I'm consoling him. I tell him after tonight, he can get a real rating and he doesn't have to play top of the heap anymore. I literally tell him to hang in there and eventually he would learn some stuff by playing against better players.

Fifteen minutes later, I have the hottest player in the tourney asking me about this guy's game. I tell him he's basically a hack that had a hard time with two ball runs. You know the story from here. The road player and one of his buddies light up everyone in the club for some pretty serious change. Someone even called a couple of the local heavies, who promptly showed up and donated their cash.

From what I understand, they lost all of their tourney matches to set the stage, then cut a broad swath across Arizona relieving several of the money players in the state of their kid's college funds...

I certainly felt stupid for aiding and abetting! Who were these masked men?
 
It was I, but it wasn't in AZ...;)

Hunter said:
I wasn't hustled recently, but I inadvertently was made a shill by a road player. I entered a little local tourney a while back. I'm one of the lowest rated players in the tourney, and in my first match, I draw this new guy that was "visiting from Michigan with a couple of buddies". If you're not rated locally, you have to start at the top of the heap. Being I'm a rated banger, I get a three game handicap. I beat this guy so bad I'm consoling him. I tell him after tonight, he can get a real rating and he doesn't have to play top of the heap anymore. I literally tell him to hang in there and eventually he would learn some stuff by playing against better players.

Fifteen minutes later, I have the hottest player in the tourney asking me about this guy's game. I tell him he's basically a hack that had a hard time with two ball runs. You know the story from here. The road player and one of his buddies light up everyone in the club for some pretty serious change. Someone even called a couple of the local heavies, who promptly showed up and donated their cash.

From what I understand, they lost all of their tourney matches to set the stage, then cut a broad swath across Arizona relieving several of the money players in the state of their kid's college funds...

I certainly felt stupid for aiding and abetting! Who were these masked men?
Click to expand...
 
I was a pretty careful player for the first few years until I became a pretty good player by the late 60's. After a while I realized I could play with anyone, other than a top player. I already knew all the top players, so if I didn't know a guy, I was ready to play him.

I kind of came to the realization that even a top hustler was going to have to show his speed to beat me, so I was unafraid of playing a stranger. And I still got hustled twice. (circa late 60's) Popcorn sent Larry Lisciotti into my poolroom in Hollywood, and he proceeded to splash around a few dollars and act like some kind of fool. He kept asking to play someone for real money. I didn't know him so I asked him what he called real money. He said how about some 9-Ball for $50 a game or $100 One Pocket.

I told him I would play him some $20 One Pocket, and he agreed. We played a few games and he looked like he could play, but not that good. I thought I could beat him. I was a game or two ahead and he quit. He said to put up $200 or forget it. So I took a shot and immediately his speed went up to championship level. We played a Race To Four for the $200 and I only won one game.

(circa 1970's) The second time was when I had my poolroom in Bakersfield. Cuban Joe came up there to play me. We had played several times before and I had gotten the best of him. He brought a bookish looking guy along with him that Joe claimed was a high rolling backer. So I played Joe some $40 full rack Banks and won a couple of games. He quits and takes me aside and says I should play some with the backer, because he's a big sucker. He says he wants 20% of what I win.

Sure enough, a few minutes later the "backer" challenges me to play. He wants to know if I'll play him some $50 9-Ball. Then he flashes a huge bankroll, maybe several thousand. I'm reluctant to play a stranger for that kind of money, but it's on my own table and I'm at the top of my game, and he did have a lot of money, and Joe had schmoozed me pretty good. So I agree to play.

Pretty quickly I see that the guy can play, and we trade games for a while, but he slowly pulls ahead a few. He is definitely no sucker, but I've beaten many good players on my front table and I figure I'm just gonna have to get down and play. Now I just want to win. I don't care what Joe said or anything. I've got my belly on the table and I'm firing back. I actually got even once, but would not quit. Then he really opens up and starts running out from everywhere. Six games later ($300) I pull up.

So that's how I met Billy Johnson (aka Wade Crane). A man Richie was to call the best player he ever played. They had a monumental match in Atlanta a couple of years before. I had heard his name but had no idea what he looked like. So thanks to my 'friend' Joe I got to meet Billy up close and personal.

That's my two 'getting hustled' stories. Now if you want to know if I ever hustled anyone, lol. I'll tell you my Harry story someday.
 
shanesinnott said:
...if a player walks into the pool room and says that for $50 he can make the cueball go 5 rails then fly in the air, land in a gass of beer and then jump out of the glass and squirt beer in your ear....you can be certain that if you take the bet, you will be $50 worse off and have an ear full of beer :-)
Click to expand...

Classic!:D
 
I got a great hustle for you that I saw at a poolroom in Vegas many moons ago.

The first guy says to the sucker "I bet you I can make a shot the first time and you can't make the same shot in 100 tries". After some haggling the bet is made.

The first guy racks all the balls and breaks them wide open. When they stop rolling he takes a piece of chalk and begins to mark the positions of each ball. Let's see "The One stopped here, the Two stopped here, and so on and so on".

Now you make the same shot. Impossible, of course. But make sure you are big enough to keep the money. This is definitely what I call a 'hard' hustle.
 
Thats pretty tricky.....My 2 favorite prop bets are shoot the cue ball under the bridge shot...Everyone knows that one right however on a table with legs like a Gold Crown it works...But on a Gandy it does'nt work...

The other one is to bet someone they can't jump over a hat on the floor...You show the sucker how it works and jump over the hat...One stipulation is I get to place the hat....He see's how easy it is and takes the bait....you put the hat in a corner:D
 
I have always been on the cautious side, but while working in the pool room one night a guy came in and asked me to play some $5 9ball. I said sure, the place was dead, what the heck. So were playing for 45 minutes or so, and the top player in the room, also my mentor rolls in and sais....whatcha doing? I said playing some cheap 9ball and breaking even. He said...you know who that is?....I'm like uhh....no...He sais....Jimmy Metts. I'm still like WFT? who's that?.....He sais, that guy can give the world the 7!:D

So, after seeing Andy.....this guy opens up a can, and a six pack on me!...I pay him....thank him for the game, and go sulk behind the counter:o

The funny thing was, the whole time he was talking to himself, and mumbling....all the while never missing a ball or perfect shape!

Gerry
 
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