The Hustle, Hustlers, and how the Hustler Works

jay helfert said:
I was a pretty careful player for the first few years until I became a pretty good player by the late 60's. After a while I realized I could play with anyone, other than a top player. I already knew all the top players, so if I didn't know a guy, I was ready to play him.

I kind of came to the realization that even a top hustler was going to have to show his speed to beat me, so I was unafraid of playing a stranger. And I still got hustled twice. (circa late 60's) Popcorn sent Larry Lisciotti into my poolroom in Hollywood, and he proceeded to splash around a few dollars and act like some kind of fool. He kept asking to play someone for real money. I didn't know him so I asked him what he called real money. He said how about some 9-Ball for $50 a game or $100 One Pocket.

I told him I would play him some $20 One Pocket, and he agreed. We played a few games and he looked like he could play, but not that good. I thought I could beat him. I was a game or two ahead and he quit. He said to put up $200 or forget it. So I took a shot and immediately his speed went up to championship level. We played a Race To Four for the $200 and I only won one game.

(circa 1970's) The second time was when I had my poolroom in Bakersfield. Cuban Joe came up there to play me. We had played several times before and I had gotten the best of him. He brought a bookish looking guy along with him that Joe claimed was a high rolling backer. So I played Joe some $40 full rack Banks and won a couple of games. He quits and takes me aside and says I should play some with the backer, because he's a big sucker. He says he wants 20% of what I win.

Sure enough, a few minutes later the "backer" challenges me to play. He wants to know if I'll play him some $50 9-Ball. Then he flashes a huge bankroll, maybe several thousand. I'm reluctant to play a stranger for that kind of money, but it's on my own table and I'm at the top of my game, and he did have a lot of money, and Joe had schmoozed me pretty good. So I agree to play.

Pretty quickly I see that the guy can play, and we trade games for a while, but he slowly pulls ahead a few. He is definitely no sucker, but I've beaten many good players on my front table and I figure I'm just gonna have to get down and play. Now I just want to win. I don't care what Joe said or anything. I've got my belly on the table and I'm firing back. I actually got even once, but would not quit. Then he really opens up and starts running out from everywhere. Six games later ($300) I pull up.

So that's how I met Billy Johnson (aka Wade Crane). A man Richie was to call the best player he ever played. They had a monumental match in Atlanta a couple of years before. I had heard his name but had no idea what he looked like. So thanks to my 'friend' Joe I got to meet Billy up close and personal.

That's my two 'getting hustled' stories. Now if you want to know if I ever hustled anyone, lol. I'll tell you my Harry story someday.
Does the "Harry" in your story have P as the first letter in his last name???
 
uwate said:
The coin flip for cash is an old move to get the target gambling. Once you get them gambling, it becomes easier to move the action to the pool table. I have seen the same move used with cards, liars poker, video golf...you name it.

Yeah, I tried that in Germany once and LOST 8 flips in a row at 100DM a flip (about $65) and it took me 8 HOURS to get the cash back and BREAK EVEN at 400 a set.

I am just glad he agreed to play pool after winning 800 in less than five minutes.

John
 
One of my favorite stories is when I was in South Florida and I was in a 5 and 9 ring game. Slowly the players were dropping out until there was only two of us. An asian player and myself. I didn't know the other guy and asked to raise the bet to 20/40. So we did and I am getting out from everywhere. I am about four hundred up when my friend Adam walks in. The first thing he asks me is what kind of weight am I getting and how much am I stuck.

I tell him that I am 400 hundred winner and his eyes get wide. He says I should be getting the seven. I say I don't think so and go back to the game. My opponent pulls up after losing another 120 and so it was a good score.

Not really a hustling story but one of my fondest all the same.

Here's a hustling one.

I am in Boca Billiards and this kid and I agree to play one pocket with him getting 8:5 for 50 a game. A real super nit. I had just started to dabble in one pocket and had ZERO idea of how to match up and this kid played out of a top notch room where they played one hole all the time. So I lose two hundred and ask him to play some 9 ball for the last $30 I had. This nit has the nerve to ask me for 3 games on the wire in a race to 6.

At this point my nose is wide open and I agree. He snaps the nine in on the first game. I win the next one and one of the railbirds barks at me to bet a couple hundred that I will lose. I said it takes a lot of heart to want to bet when your horse is 4:1 up in a race to 6. But, I said I would bet my car against his $200. (I had a beater that I bought to get me by until I went into the Air Force a few weeks later.) He asked me if I had the pink slip and I said yes.

Now, I am 30 miles from home playing for my last $30 and my car and down 4:1 in a race to six against a player who is at least as good as me. I win the next game and the kid wins the next and is on the hill. I win four games in a row from there to take the set. By now the tournament is over and everyone left in the room is sweating our little set. My friend Frank says loudly, "John I can hear your heart beating all the way over here."

So, the set is done, I get my $30 from the kid and the railbird doesn't want to pay off. Not knowing what to do I walk over to the pay phone and tell him that I will just call the police and let them sort it out. He comes over and puts $200 on the phone and tells me he better not catch me alone. At this point I am like full of adreneline and don't care too much about the threat and happy to get the money.

So after that I leave and go across the street to fill up my car. The kid and his friend pull up behind me and the kid asks me for the $30 back and half the $200. He claims that he dumped the set so I owe him half of the winnings. I am now really pissed off and I remind him that he rattled the 9 twice during combination attempts in the last four games and that nobody is good enough to do that on purpose and even if he did I wasn't part of his scheme. I took a tire iron out of my car and told him he would have to "earn" the money he wanted and to make sure I couldn't get up if he started in. I am the last person to make things physical but after the whole night and the scene at the pool room I was fed up with people trying to get over on me.

He backed down and I got away from that situation breaking even.

I never forget it though. First I get trapped, then I get desperate, then I get tush hogged and still come out even. What a night.

--------------------

Okay more one pocket.

fast forward to about 1995/96 I am in Vegas and Grady Matthews is having a straight pool event at one of the way out casinos ( I think you had to charter a plane to get there) and Eddie Robin is selling copies of Winning One Pocket. I buy one but don't crack it.

I go to the Cue Club and match up even for $50 a game against some guy. He beats me to death and I go off for $400. Then I take him to breakfast and buy him breakfast on top of that. Real nice guy, plays just a little better than me, I was tired after working the show all day, yada, yada.

On the long flight home I pull out WOP and start flipping through it. What do I see? A nice picture of my opponent with the caption "Jerry Prado, one of the best young one-pocket players around." or something like that. Gee, I don't remember his name being Jerry....

John
 
Harry?

jay helfert said:
That's my two 'getting hustled' stories. Now if you want to know if I ever hustled anyone, lol. I'll tell you my Harry story someday.

Jay can you tell me a story about this guy?

I heard one time Keith McCready was in elevator at a pool tournament, when the it came crashing down only maybe 10 feet. Harry ended up sueing the hotel and made him and Keith a little money. Not sure if this story is true, maybe Keith Knows. I guess Harry used to really bet it up.

Mack
 

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Hey, Jay, we live in Platisville and I'd like to hear your story. Here's a pic I like of Harry, Billy Bob Cress and Mike.
 

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All About Harry

stolz2 said:
Jay can you tell me a story about this guy?

I heard one time Keith McCready was in elevator at a pool tournament, when the it came crashing down only maybe 10 feet. Harry ended up sueing the hotel and made him and Keith a little money. Not sure if this story is true, maybe Keith Knows. I guess Harry used to really bet it up.

Mack

Harry is a great guy and has become a good friend of mine, but years ago he was always hustling me at pool tournaments where I was working as the T.D. This was back in the 80's. I knew how he played and would always tell him he had no chance with me. He had never seen me play, just run tournaments.

So one time we are at a big tourney at Caesars Palace and it early in the AM and Harry is practicing for his match later on. I am preparing for the matches, which will be starting in an hour or so. Harry asks me to practice with him, and since I've got my work done, I say sure. I tell him I have to share his cue. He says fine, and then asks me to 'practice' for $25 a game.

Once again, I tell him that he can't beat me. He says he doesn't care, he just wants to play against someone. Okay by me, we play for an hour or so and I win $400. Harry pays me off and says next time we'll play One Pocket
for $1,000 a game. He is trying to high roll me and it's working. I had never played that high before. My biggest game might have been a set for $1,000 (like ten ahead).

Now, every time I see Harry, he asks me if I'm ready for that $1,000 game. And every time I tell him he can't beat me. The more I tell him that, the more he wants to play. Finally in Phoenix, we are doing the big challenge match with Ronnie and Danny. Harry is there and I have just sold a piece of property and got 48K my end.

I bring eight or ten grand with me to Phoenix because I know Harry will be there. And I practice hard for two weeks prior. I'm in stroke and have got a bankroll. Sure enough he starts with the $1,000 a game line and the first night we play after Ronnie and Danny are done. I lose the first game and feel a little sick. But win the next seven in a row. That's the end of night one.

The next night Ronnie wants to get involved and he matches up a game with me and him as partners against Harry and Keith. $500 a man. My first and last time taking Ronnie for a partner. He is BRUTAL, berating me after every shot. We lost two games and I quit. Harry says why don't he and I play again. Okay, here we go, second night. Six games later Harry packs it in.

After it's all over and Ronnie wins the match, I go home and buy a beautiful truck for 10K with my winnings, and show it off to Harry next time I see him. It's a 1987 GMC Jimmy.

Fast forward a year to Reno and Harry asks me to play again. Once again I tell him he can't beat me. He says okay, let's just play 500 a game. 4K later that game is over. I tell him no more, he cannot win. He agrees finally.

A year later, back in Reno, Harry asks me to practice One Pocket with him because all the hustlers are after him. I say sure, why not. We get on the table and he says we'll 'practice' for 200 a game. Something cheap to motivate him. Okay, it is cheap, I only win 1K this time. All this time we have played even, always have and always will.

Now we don't play again for years and Harry improves and I don't. About five years ago he asks me to play him a set for $1,000. A race to four. He beats me 4-2 and plays better than I've ever seen him play. Everyone offers me condolences on losing, and I tell them it's not all that bad.

A couple of years after that we play a set of Banks in Louisville for $1,000 and he wins that race to five on the last ball. 4-4 in games and 4-4 on balls and I bank a tough shot cross side that hits both points and stops on the side rail and leaves Harry a sweet one. He wins again and everyone says too bad you can't beat Harry, Jay. I tell them again it isn't all that bad.

So Harry has beaten me the last two times we played for 1k each time, but I may still be a little winners overall. But I'm much more careful about gambling with Harry now.
 
I was 16 or 17, living in Lubbock, Tx, banging em around on a snooker table when Amarillo Slim Preston walked in. Of course, we all knew who he was and wanted no part of him. Within an hour, he had soft-conned us into a coma, spotted me on the snooker table after totally convincing all of us that he was the one needing the spot. He had a bankroll that would choke a gator, and just one of his boots was worth more than the poolroom and everyone in it; man, we thought we had a real shot at The Big Score. Needless to say, Slim took me off, broke the whole joint, poormouthing his game all the way, took us all to breakfast, and when he left, we STILL thought we could win, we just ran out of bullets. That's getting "master-hustled".
1965, just out of Navy boot camp, walk into Cochran's in San Fran, wind up playing a dumpy guy in a weird hat some 9ball. He dogs the 9, jumps the table on the break, etc. We play about even for awhile, he acts like he's mad after dogging another 9, says "Let's jack the bet, I feel mad enough to lose it all tonight." So I bite, he gets up a little, he gives me the wild 8, we jack it again, then he just stopped missing. Got broke, found out later it was Ronnie Allen; lost my bankroll and any easy action I might have gotten later, since half the room was watching. Man, he was a lemon-meister. The others I remember were Mike Massey, Flyboy (Jimmy Spears) and Surfer Rod, great hustlers all. I was the typical kid who was a big fish in a little pond going to the big city and turning into a sardine sandwich.
 
About 6 weeks ago some guy from NY comes to Hollywood Billiards barking up a storm for some action.

It just so happened that Ernesto Dominguez was there, dropping off the invoice for the pool tables he had recovered for the Swanee Tournament back a couple months ago. So this hustler starts barking at Ernesto, having no clue who he was, trying to get a game of 9-ball.

Mike the manager at Hollywood lent him a Padgett sneaky pete, and Ernesto made a quick buck. The guy never knew what hit him.

Love it!
 
Hunter said:
I wasn't hustled recently, but I inadvertently was made a shill by a road player. I entered a little local tourney a while back. I'm one of the lowest rated players in the tourney, and in my first match, I draw this new guy that was "visiting from Michigan with a couple of buddies". If you're not rated locally, you have to start at the top of the heap. Being I'm a rated banger, I get a three game handicap. I beat this guy so bad I'm consoling him. I tell him after tonight, he can get a real rating and he doesn't have to play top of the heap anymore. I literally tell him to hang in there and eventually he would learn some stuff by playing against better players.

Fifteen minutes later, I have the hottest player in the tourney asking me about this guy's game. I tell him he's basically a hack that had a hard time with two ball runs. You know the story from here. The road player and one of his buddies light up everyone in the club for some pretty serious change. Someone even called a couple of the local heavies, who promptly showed up and donated their cash.

From what I understand, they lost all of their tourney matches to set the stage, then cut a broad swath across Arizona relieving several of the money players in the state of their kid's college funds...

I certainly felt stupid for aiding and abetting! Who were these masked men?

It was me and my 2 friends. I remember playing you in that tournament the first night we got to Ariazona. We told everyong we were from Traverse City Michigan. The next day I lost 2 $ 200 sets to Glen Bond and evryone was hooked. That next night were sitting at the poolhall and this guy Eddie snaeks up inot the conversation and asked me to play. Him and Glen were partners on this "easy money" we started playing a 10 ahead set for $ 2000 and we were playing by the backdoor. I won the flip and broke and ran the first 3 and Eddie and Glen were out the backdoor and I know Eddie was telling Glen I thought you said this guy couldn't play. Eddie got even and raised the bet to $ 3000 and we played all night. My backer had been watching and my other friend had been sleeping and at 7 in the morning they switched. So my friend comes in and I am up 9 games and I have Eddie on 2 fouls and I swear this ball was unhittable. Even my friend said the set was over. I had him oinned in between balls frozen and to this day neither my friend or I have any idea how he hit this ball. He had to completely jack up and shoot a masse 2 rail kick between balls, my explaining this is not doing this justice it wwas the best hit I have ever seen considering the circumstance. He hit the ball, left me safe and won 8 games in a row and I wqas thinking that if I lost this set I will kill myself. I ended up winning the set and Eddie looked like a beaten man the rest of the trip he wouldn't say 2 words to us. After that I beat jimmy Mendoza for $ 1000 and than Scott Frost gave me the 7 and I beat him for $ 1000 and than he gave me the 8 and I beat him for another 1000. Playing Scott was funny because I was wearing an APA jacket and when he started talking smack I told him that I skipped league to fly out there and bust him. He even laughed at that. It was a great trip I beat a few other guys and we won about $ 13000 for the week.
Best regards from Traverse City
 
Hi there Big Hurt,

Thanks for the confession! Seriously, that was one of the smoothest routines I've ever seen. It was like watching the prey turn on the pirahnas! Your comment to Scott was a crackup, too...missed your league...ha! I wish I could have caught a few of your games around the state. I sure enjoyed watching the ones at Click's. Hope to catch your game next time you're in Arizona, and thanks for having mercy on a banger and not taking my money!!!

Regards,

Steve
 
What odds the masked bandit would show up?
This is turning into a one of the all time best threads...keep the stories coming.

I've never been hustled in my life...cautious gambler that I am. Maybe my biggest loss is a couple of hundred.

The closest I came to being hustled was when my buddy (I'd often back him), who loved the money games lined up a game against Mick Macri, a former Australian representative, who we had figured was past his prime and had played in the old days when the standard, we assumed was a bit lower.

Anyway, we travelled from the Gold Coast to Brisbane for the match, a race to 11 as I recall for $1,000. We had done some research on the room and there were only two playable tables. One was the Mick's regular practice table, so we wanted to play on the other one.

Alarm bells started to ring when I found a couple of wedges lying near the table...freshly cut. The table we had wanted to play on had fresh wedges under the slate and was rolling all over the place.

My buddy was a very strategical player, wanting tight pockets and a very level table. This is English 8-ball 2 shots rules which can be very strategical with blocking pockets.

The wedges made the table we had wanted unplayable, so the only choice was Mick's practice table, the others having huge pockets which made my mate's strategical game a disadvantage.

I urged him to not play, but his ego got the better of him. He had to play and for some reason I kept my share of the bet in the game under his persistant persuasion.

He got control of several of the early games but Mick kept pulling of great banks and kick-shots on the table he knew so well. Mick raced to about a 6-1 lead and eventually won 11-6 as I recall.

The following year Mick won the Australian Championships and for a few years was one of the dominant Australian professionals. Seems we got outsmarted a bit that day.
 
Hi,

Sorry about you getting caught in the middle, I guess it was luck of the draw. That was the funniest road trip I have ever taken. I was playing the manager of one of the poolhalls(both names I can't remember) but he was a 10+1. I was giving him the 8 for $ 100 a game and I had him stuck $ 2000 when he says mhe will put up his van verse the $ 2000. We went to take a look at it and as soon as me and my backer get around the back of the van and out of site I tell him"I think I might be able to get this guys nose open" we were dying laughing until the manager came around the back and we had to put straight faces on. My backer wanted me to win it but I had a heart, I wasn't going to send this guy home to his wife without the van. My backer couldn't care less about the van, he jsut wanted the story. By the way we really loved the Arizona state rating system. The second day we were there I was talking to the barmaid asking how everybody plays and she says " everybody in the state is rated on the same scale and here is a printout of EVERYBODIES ratings" the regulars were pissed at her but we tipped her $50 and she licked it, stuck it to her forehead and walked around the bar telling them that they don't tip her anything. I remember Jimmy Mendoza on here about a year ago talking about the Arizona rating system and 3 guys had come through town awhile back claiming to be from Traverse City Mochigan and how we got ahold of the ratings. When I read that I was LMAO. By the way once we said we were from Traverse City it trunde out that 3 or 4 people had ever lived in or new people from Traverse City! yeah right, nice try!!
 
thebighurt said:
Hi,

Sorry about you getting caught in the middle, I guess it was luck of the draw. That was the funniest road trip I have ever taken. I was playing the manager of one of the poolhalls(both names I can't remember) but he was a 10+1. I was giving him the 8 for $ 100 a game and I had him stuck $ 2000 when he says mhe will put up his van verse the $ 2000. We went to take a look at it and as soon as me and my backer get around the back of the van and out of site I tell him"I think I might be able to get this guys nose open" we were dying laughing until the manager came around the back and we had to put straight faces on. My backer wanted me to win it but I had a heart, I wasn't going to send this guy home to his wife without the van. My backer couldn't care less about the van, he jsut wanted the story. By the way we really loved the Arizona state rating system. The second day we were there I was talking to the barmaid asking how everybody plays and she says " everybody in the state is rated on the same scale and here is a printout of EVERYBODIES ratings" the regulars were pissed at her but we tipped her $50 and she licked it, stuck it to her forehead and walked around the bar telling them that they don't tip her anything. I remember Jimmy Mendoza on here about a year ago talking about the Arizona rating system and 3 guys had come through town awhile back claiming to be from Traverse City Mochigan and how we got ahold of the ratings. When I read that I was LMAO. By the way once we said we were from Traverse City it trunde out that 3 or 4 people had ever lived in or new people from Traverse City! yeah right, nice try!!


That is just classic... excellent twist!!!!!! :D
 
I almost for got, as I am sitting here LMAO the more I think back. We were staying in the hotel in the same plaza as the poolhall. My friend was already over at the poolhall amd my backer and me were walking across the parking lot and right before we get to the poolhall door my friend comes flying out the door full speed. We thought the whole poolhall was after him or something. His eyes were as big as saucers. we were like whats wrong? he says you are not going to belive who is in there. We asked who? It turns out that a guy from our area who has an R.V. and is kind of a goof ball and b.s.er. The guy takes little road trips in his R.V. every now and then.NOBODY knew where we were going and here we were over 2000 miles from home and this guy happens to show up in the same poolhall at the same time. He of course told everyone where he is from, so we signalled for him to come outside and we told him that do not say a word about us and don't tell them where we are from. He says O.K. and than tells us that "he has been beating everyone since he had been there(right)". Once he leaves the manager saw us talking to him and says hey do you guys know him? We say no but we might of seen him at a tournament somewhere. The manager says " that guy is sweet, everyone in town has beat him" I was LMAO again. The other thing is that it is warm where we are from and it was cold as balls at night in Arizona. Since we told everybody we were from Michigan we had to act like the weather was fine. We kept saying that this was swimming weather where were from. We even asked if there was a lake around in which we could take a swim.(yeah right)
 
omg wow, great stories hurt.. Keep em coming, this is the most entertaining thread so far since ive been on AZ. Passed 30 mins or so at work!
 
prolecat said:
omg wow, great stories hurt.. Keep em coming, this is the most entertaining thread so far since ive been on AZ. Passed 30 mins or so at work!

Bump for a good thread.
 
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