The most fascinating golfer at the Masters using a controversial swing
- Thread starter HawaiianEye
- Start date
The mirror banking system will show you, Al
That was a good find. I didn't see or hear any of these comparisons before I wrote what I did about Moe, it just struck me his swing was similar. Moe was shorter so he looked different than Bryson. Moe's grip was also unconventional. The interesting thing I learned from the video was Bryson's length. I always associated this style with accuracy over distance.
Jack Nicklaus, weary of all these discussions about mechanics, often used this conversation ender: "regarless of how we arrive there, all pro golfers essentially look the same at impact."
Amen?
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Have another drink, Dick.
I'm not here to play word games. <--Could have fooled me.
If you can't understand what I'm talking about, go watch golf. <--I seem to be one of several. :sorry:
Wish I could have a drink..Its been over 4 yrs.!..Yes, I will be watching me some golf today.
"Look the same at impact"....that's what Mike Massey said about top pool players also.
There are many roads to Rome, but there's only one Rome.
Hope this helps!
Attachments
I am not sure that I would agree with your phrase "requiring" outside english.
But, don't think that CJ never shoots shots with outside english when using his TOI method.
He explained that he would start with TOI & then 'pivot' to center or past for shots that he wanted outside spin on the cue ball.
"Requiring" is a rather restrictive & limiting outlook.
There is usually more than one way to skin a cat.
Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick
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You are unaware there are shots requiring outside English?
Talk about exaggeration!
Yah, it's more like 1,000 golf balls.. To Moe though it felt like 15,000..
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
I watched a couple videos about Moe last night. Not too humble, was he (regarding his swing). But, man, what a skill level he developed. Too bad things didn't go just a little differently for him in his tournament life, or he might have set a zillion more records.
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Rick, I shall make my case with you, because you seem to be the biggest TOI supporter on the forum!
I don't think anyone would be naive enough to think that a player of CJ's caliber, could not use whatever spin, or english required to get the job done..He is doing no different (with TOI) than most top player's..SVB, or Busty for example, start their aiming process looking like they are using extreme low english..Then, at point of contact, they adjust to the actual spot they wish to strike the cue ball!
Frankly, I have never understood that line of reasoning..I tend to take my PR and warm-up strokes, pretty much where I intend to make contact with the cue ball..I guess my brain doesn't work well enough to incorperate TOI, TOO, low spin, etc. then, on the final stroke, adjust to where I 'really' want to strike the cue ball!
I guess we are all creatures of habit..but it seems to me, that the TOI method (for instance) would be something like an archer, drawing back his bow, while aiming left of the target, and then move to the bullseye, just before he releases his arrow!.. Please tell me if you think this is a poor analogy..It would not be the first time I have had my feelings hurt! :embarrassed2:
Best to you also.
Dick
Bryson DeChambeau ......dad is Brandon DeChambeau......grandfather is Johnny DeChambeau.
Johnny happens to be the step brother to my ex-wife's step sister......DeChambeau is a family of pro golfers.
Johnny happens to be the step brother to my ex-wife's step sister......DeChambeau is a family of pro golfers.
C. J. didn't invent the system, he just used it and promoted it.
He used outside if he needed it, but he positioned himself where he didn't have to as much as other people. I do the same. I play to leave myself inside angles if I have the option. If I have to use outside on a shot, I will, but I try to leave my cue ball back on a line that will get me back on an "inside track".
It is much easier to show someone at the table than it is to sit here and try to explain every question, post by post.
I've always said, "you can go outside with inside, but you can't go inside with outside". Once you figure that out, you will know the system.
There are a lot of people who are hesitant to use inside because it can get quirky, but when you use it all the time, it becomes natural to you.
Most of the naysayers are people who have never put in the time and effort to figure it out and become accustomed to it. They had rather use outside because it is easier and more natural to them. I can use outside as well as anybody, but I prefer not to.
In edit: When I say "figure it out", I mean the "system of playing", not how to spin the cue ball with inside English...most everybody can hit the ball on the inside.
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I have been putting in a lot of time and effort, and stayed in pretty hi-$$$ action for over 70 yrs. now!.. BTW, I can use 'inside' as well as anybody... but I prefer not to.
Not exactly. I've been shooting with outside english for nearly 50 years, since I was 13.
What I'm saying is that they are very few & far between when a shot absolutely "requires" outside english. Yes, they do come up.
What I was saying about CJ is that he does not force TOI on every shot.
He will pivot to center or past for outside english when 'needed' or desired. I thought THAT was the point of your post.
Best 2 Ya,
Rick
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I have been putting in a lot of time and effort, and stayed in pretty hi-$$$ action for over 70 yrs. now!.. BTW, I can use 'inside' as well as anybody... but I prefer not to.
I acknowledged that fact many years ago and still acknowledge it, but it doesn't phase me or scare me like it does a lot of people when it come to using it. I've put in countless hours and years of using the system, so it is what I expect to use...not something that I only use on occasion.
Unless you are hitting an object ball head on (straight in), the cue ball always touches the object ball on the outside with the inside of the cue ball if you are trying to pocket a ball. I prefer to aim at and hit the cue ball on the same side that touches the object ball.
Moe REGARDING HUMBLE
moe had what is called autism or some form of autism
he was not acquainted with certain social skills
to recognize that he was the best striker of the golf ball in the world was just a matter of fact with him
these social skills prevented his golf from getting its due recognition
i never heard him speak critical of others
he was just matter of fact the most accurate goler to ever live
moe had what is called autism or some form of autism
he was not acquainted with certain social skills
to recognize that he was the best striker of the golf ball in the world was just a matter of fact with him
these social skills prevented his golf from getting its due recognition
i never heard him speak critical of others
he was just matter of fact the most accurate goler to ever live
Rick, I shall make my case with you, because you seem to be the biggest TOI supporter on the forum!
I don't think anyone would be naive enough to think that a player of CJ's caliber, could not use whatever spin, or english required to get the job done..He is doing no different (with TOI) than most top player's..SVB, or Busty for example, start their aiming process looking like they are using extreme low english..Then, at point of contact, they adjust to the actual spot they wish to strike the cue ball!
Frankly, I have never understood that line of reasoning..I tend to take my PR and warm-up strokes, pretty much where I intend to make contact with the cue ball..I guess my brain doesn't work well enough to incorperate TOI, TOO, low spin, etc. then, on the final stroke, adjust to where I 'really' want to strike the cue ball!
I guess we are all creatures of habit..but it seems to me, that the TOI method (for instance) would be something like an archer, drawing back his bow, while aiming left of the target, and then move to the bullseye, just before he releases his arrow!.. Please tell me if you think this is a poor analogy..It would not be the first time I have had my feelings hurt! :embarrassed2:
Best to you also.
Dick
Hi Dick,
I'm glad you're well.
Yes, I think what you're saying is not a very good representation of CJ's version of TOI nor how I employ it.
I do not think that CJ swipes to center or outside & I certainly do not. If anything I might swipe a bit more to the inside to get a tad more squirt out of the ball, but it's pretty much a subconscious thing when my subconscious knows that I am not going to get the required squirt to get enough cut on the ball.
I've never been big on pivoting the cue prior to making a stroke like many do for BHE, but I've found hat CJ's method of starting with the TOI & then pivoting to center or to the outside does work rather well but... I would still rather use my own 'parallel' method when I want to apply either inside or outside spin for the purpose of throwing the OB or positioning the CB.
The thing is that CJ seems to be correct when he said that switching back & forth might drive one nuts. I've found that it is not easy being consistently good with both methods at the same time. Usually one will play better than the other. I guess like you my brain has trouble thinking on two completely different lines of thought.
I hope that helps give you a better picture of what I do & what I think CJ also does.
That said, I could see him swiping to center if HIS subconscious was telling him that he would get too much squirt & over cut a ball.
Out subconscious minds are amazing entities.
Best 2 Ya,
Rick
Well, ya lost me again!..I'm sure you are a good player, and probably a good guy too!..But our differences (in basic pool theories) always seem to be at odds, on almost every issue!..So lets just let it go, and agree to disagree!
PS..So far, it looks like I was wrong about the Spieth/McElroy match-up!..Sure glad nobody took me up on any wagers.
