The Rack in Detroit
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Rack & Cue
My recollections on what I believe was called the Rack & Cue?
I was born in 1941 and lived my whole life on the west side until moving to FL in 2001.
In the early 60's I had a friend (Mike Teen) His dad (George) was a loan shark/bookie that drove a truck at a Chrysler plant. At the early age of 21, from poker and track winnings, Mike bought a bar (Chuck & Lucy's) on Ciccote st in the Livernois/I-94 hood. He was a heavy gambler and ran a blind pig upstairs from the bar. He partnered with a man called "Harry The Horse" and ran a monthly "full comped" high stakes junket monthly to Vegas. I wonder if this is the same Harry the Horse your referring to? Mike ended up having to sell the bar due to money he lost on one of the Vegas junkets.
At the time I had a friend (Chuck Henley) who claimed his uncle was Cornbread Red. He took me to the Youngstown Pool Room on Vernor Ave across from Clark Park to watch Red shoot. I could be wrong, but I think Chuck said Red owned the pool room? There was a one armed man in a wheel chair that shot real good stick. He cradled the cue in the elbow of the stump left on his left arm.
Years later (Early 70's), another gambling friend (Tom Kollhurst) took me to the Rack & Cue to shoot some pool. I watched Freddie Salem play for 1K a game. That was my only trip to the Rack. Tom said he went to the Rack to play craps on a pool table every Sunday night. He said there were Judge's. Southfield city councilmen and many other dignitary's playing big money there, He said the cops were never a problem. The craps games were "Untouchable" to the cops.
Well, one night some black dudes got in and held everybody up. Tom always kept a few hundred in his wallet and a few thousand in his shoe. He said he swallowed his 3 caret diamond ring and passed it days later. The cops were never called, nothing in the news papers.
They found the crooks in the trunk of a car at the Metro airport about a month later. That was in the news papers.
As I remember,
Jerry
My recollections on what I believe was called the Rack & Cue?
I was born in 1941 and lived my whole life on the west side until moving to FL in 2001.
In the early 60's I had a friend (Mike Teen) His dad (George) was a loan shark/bookie that drove a truck at a Chrysler plant. At the early age of 21, from poker and track winnings, Mike bought a bar (Chuck & Lucy's) on Ciccote st in the Livernois/I-94 hood. He was a heavy gambler and ran a blind pig upstairs from the bar. He partnered with a man called "Harry The Horse" and ran a monthly "full comped" high stakes junket monthly to Vegas. I wonder if this is the same Harry the Horse your referring to? Mike ended up having to sell the bar due to money he lost on one of the Vegas junkets.
At the time I had a friend (Chuck Henley) who claimed his uncle was Cornbread Red. He took me to the Youngstown Pool Room on Vernor Ave across from Clark Park to watch Red shoot. I could be wrong, but I think Chuck said Red owned the pool room? There was a one armed man in a wheel chair that shot real good stick. He cradled the cue in the elbow of the stump left on his left arm.
Years later (Early 70's), another gambling friend (Tom Kollhurst) took me to the Rack & Cue to shoot some pool. I watched Freddie Salem play for 1K a game. That was my only trip to the Rack. Tom said he went to the Rack to play craps on a pool table every Sunday night. He said there were Judge's. Southfield city councilmen and many other dignitary's playing big money there, He said the cops were never a problem. The craps games were "Untouchable" to the cops.
Well, one night some black dudes got in and held everybody up. Tom always kept a few hundred in his wallet and a few thousand in his shoe. He said he swallowed his 3 caret diamond ring and passed it days later. The cops were never called, nothing in the news papers.
They found the crooks in the trunk of a car at the Metro airport about a month later. That was in the news papers.
As I remember,
Jerry
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How to treat a thief
Not all thieves got treated that way.A guy i always liked to talk to 'though we never gambled was Michael the 'Super Fly'.He made a bar score and was heading to his car when he was struck with a stick.He went down for the count and the guy reached into his right hand pocket
and grabbed the $1,200 he had just won.Fly said "I got lucky 'cause i had
$30,000 in the other pocket" A week later he saw the mugger in a restaurant.As he walked up to the table the guy prepared to flee.
Michael threw a $100 bill on the table and said"GET YOU A GUN MAN 'CAUSE YOU GONNA KILL SOMEBODY WITH THAT 2X4".
Now how you gonna read this guy at a poker game when he shoves his
chips at you?
Not all thieves got treated that way.A guy i always liked to talk to 'though we never gambled was Michael the 'Super Fly'.He made a bar score and was heading to his car when he was struck with a stick.He went down for the count and the guy reached into his right hand pocket
and grabbed the $1,200 he had just won.Fly said "I got lucky 'cause i had
$30,000 in the other pocket" A week later he saw the mugger in a restaurant.As he walked up to the table the guy prepared to flee.
Michael threw a $100 bill on the table and said"GET YOU A GUN MAN 'CAUSE YOU GONNA KILL SOMEBODY WITH THAT 2X4".
Now how you gonna read this guy at a poker game when he shoves his
chips at you?
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
Bill Kelleher {aka} Calhoun...I saw him a few yrs back down here in Fla. Was hanging around with Big Bob Ogburn. I know Calhoun wasnt doing well healthwise then, I wanna say it was 2000-2003. Man, I caught his game in the mid-80's and it was real solid. Another southern throwback worth a mention too is Hippie Dave...great old school bus!!
Voo~~loves this thread, not hijackin' it...just addin' to the madness
Hey "The Beard" or anybody else in the know,
You ever heard of Junior Weldon Rodgers or Bakersfield Bobby? I was talking to Judd Fuller today about a stick he is working on for me and this thread came up. Judd mentioned the above 2 as great players.
I called to discuss my cue just happened to mentioned this thread and its subject matter and the stories just started rolling. We were on the phone for 45 minutes laughing and talking.
Judd really got a kick out of it.
PS
Judd makes a great cue.
Hippie dave
If we're talking about the same "Hippie Dave"(how many can there be right?).... I talk to him almost every day. kinda down on his luck but still plays GOOOOOOOOOD! he still has the bus (he calls it his RV) it's in storage and he's driving (and pretty much living) in his van. doing the flee market thing. selling movies, music, and other "collectables" good guy, great player!
If we're talking about the same "Hippie Dave"(how many can there be right?).... I talk to him almost every day. kinda down on his luck but still plays GOOOOOOOOOD! he still has the bus (he calls it his RV) it's in storage and he's driving (and pretty much living) in his van. doing the flee market thing. selling movies, music, and other "collectables" good guy, great player!
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Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
Thats him...glad to see he is still vertical and breathin'!!
I spoke with Dave this morning and told him that someone mentioned him in this thread and was glad he was still "kickin" I told him that it was a guy from FL and of course he wanted to know if you were willing to stake him... LOL I think he's going to head back out that way pretty soon (he's in TX now) so maybe I can give him your address and you guys can "hang out" 
He still plays great and is pretty much"instant action" as soon as he walks in a pool room.
He still plays great and is pretty much"instant action" as soon as he walks in a pool room.
True on all counts. My old road partner, Gary Spaeth, played Cecil at the Legends of One Pocket tourney back in '92. Cecil was by most folks opinion the favorite. Cecil showed up late for his match, which he was about to forfeit when he walked in. Gary felt like it was sort of a "move" that Cecil had used on him and was a little pissed. Gary got a gear using all of his banking prowess and gave Cecil a real Spanking. Cecil thought it was a fluke, got a stake horse, and came right to Cincinnati to play Gary after the tournament. Well he jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire. Gary was VERY hard to beat on his home court. I don't remember if Cecil won any games or not, if so, it wasn't many. His stake horse felt like $1800 was enough of a clue, who had the best of the match up!
Bugs didn't like it when he tried to play Gary at home either. He tried twice, once banks, once one-pocket and didn't like it either time! But Bugs was a pretty good loser for someone who had such little practice at it!
just more hot air!
Sherm
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Nobody from Chicago ever loses. Just ask anyone from Chicago...
...If they did lose, they did it on purpose...Just ask anyone from Chicago...
Ken
Real people, real players
Grady Mathews started whole thread on here somewhere about Junior Weldon. Bob I knew of. but we never did anything with each other.
Beard
Grady Mathews started whole thread on here somewhere about Junior Weldon. Bob I knew of. but we never did anything with each other.
Beard
One Pocket?
Sherm, did they play even OnePocket? I cant imagine Gary playing Bugs even in the OnePocket. Banks even at home, yes. You know I loved Gary too, but did they play even?
Beard
Sherm, did they play even OnePocket? I cant imagine Gary playing Bugs even in the OnePocket. Banks even at home, yes. You know I loved Gary too, but did they play even?
Beard
Count 'em
How many players from Chicago have you beaten?
Beard
Nobody from Chicago ever loses. Just ask anyone from Chicago...
If they did lose, they did it on purpose...Just ask anyone from Chicago...
Ken
How many players from Chicago have you beaten?
Beard
a little story
many have probably heard this one; years ago , cornbread red was in good action and got $55,000 out of a player by early evening. all gone by the time the place closed that night. another time, red had won twenty or thirty grand and a fine young lady said to him " i am going home with you tonight!" i do not know the end of that story. and if i did i wouldn't tell it to the world at any rate.
many have probably heard this one; years ago , cornbread red was in good action and got $55,000 out of a player by early evening. all gone by the time the place closed that night. another time, red had won twenty or thirty grand and a fine young lady said to him " i am going home with you tonight!" i do not know the end of that story. and if i did i wouldn't tell it to the world at any rate.
Yes I concur. This is like reading about some crazy cool pool hall in the wild wild west with indians still around!
First time I was ever in the rack was in '77. I had sold my pool room in Bakersfield and was on the road in my new Caddy. I got directions to the Rack and pulled up and parked. Went to the door with my girlfriend and have to knock to get in. It's a private club! A guy opens a peephole and looks at me, "Who are you?" he says. I'm Jay Helfert I tell him, a pool player from California. "Who knows you?" he asks me. Hell, I don't know. "Who's in there?" I ask him.
He turns around and shouts out, "Anyone know some guy named Jay Helfert?" He asks again and then I hear Cornbreads voice, "He's okay, let him in!" The guy finally lets me in. Not just anybody could get into the Rack. They had to be very careful with so much money floating around. When I get inside I am surprised to see so few pool tables. It's small, only a handful of tables. I say hi to Red who is playing someone and I see Jimmy Reid and Mataya chatting in the back.
I sit down and just try to take it all in. I'm in the legendary Rack and I have a pocket full of money (I think). I'm wondering if there is anyone I can play in here. My buddy Dave Piona had just come home with a new Caddy and a $40,000 score. Even Cecil made some serious money here. He got in a beef though (I heard he withheld some of the money from his backers) and they broke his wrist, never to play right handed again.
Jimmy makes a game, giving up the seven ball to someone I didn't know. Jimmy is in dead punch back then and I know the seven ball means next to nothing. People are making side bets on the game, so I pipe up, "I'll take Jimmy for a hundred a game." A guy looks at me and says, "You can't bet a hundred a game in here. The minimum bet is 500 a game." Oops, that $5,000 in my pocket didn't seem like so much money now.
Jimmy was nice enough to give me a $200 piece of his action. He was playing 9-Ball for a thousand a game! He won ten thousand in short order and the guy quit. Afterward he told me he had won over 100K that week! Shortly after, I got back in my car and headed out. I knew the Rack was a little too rich for my blood.
He turns around and shouts out, "Anyone know some guy named Jay Helfert?" He asks again and then I hear Cornbreads voice, "He's okay, let him in!" The guy finally lets me in. Not just anybody could get into the Rack. They had to be very careful with so much money floating around. When I get inside I am surprised to see so few pool tables. It's small, only a handful of tables. I say hi to Red who is playing someone and I see Jimmy Reid and Mataya chatting in the back.
I sit down and just try to take it all in. I'm in the legendary Rack and I have a pocket full of money (I think). I'm wondering if there is anyone I can play in here. My buddy Dave Piona had just come home with a new Caddy and a $40,000 score. Even Cecil made some serious money here. He got in a beef though (I heard he withheld some of the money from his backers) and they broke his wrist, never to play right handed again.
Jimmy makes a game, giving up the seven ball to someone I didn't know. Jimmy is in dead punch back then and I know the seven ball means next to nothing. People are making side bets on the game, so I pipe up, "I'll take Jimmy for a hundred a game." A guy looks at me and says, "You can't bet a hundred a game in here. The minimum bet is 500 a game." Oops, that $5,000 in my pocket didn't seem like so much money now.
Jimmy was nice enough to give me a $200 piece of his action. He was playing 9-Ball for a thousand a game! He won ten thousand in short order and the guy quit. Afterward he told me he had won over 100K that week! Shortly after, I got back in my car and headed out. I knew the Rack was a little too rich for my blood.
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Absolutly amazing!
Just spent the last hour at work reading this thread from start to finish, only to wish I could have seen something like this. From the stories I have read here I don't think there will ever be another Rack.
Just spent the last hour at work reading this thread from start to finish, only to wish I could have seen something like this. From the stories I have read here I don't think there will ever be another Rack.
uh, *bump*
Did the rack have a snooker table? I recall Hopkins talking about playing a guy 1p on the snooker table in Detroit (maybe the rack?). My memory is crap but I think Hop ran 10-and-out twice on the snooker table for some big money. I need to call and get the story straight-- but I wanna say it was jew paul but I don't know really. If someone knows - let me know.
Beard - I hope I can ask this question the right way.... I know you used to play everyone you could banks... how did you rank at the rack? How many people above/below you?
Dave
Did the rack have a snooker table? I recall Hopkins talking about playing a guy 1p on the snooker table in Detroit (maybe the rack?). My memory is crap but I think Hop ran 10-and-out twice on the snooker table for some big money. I need to call and get the story straight-- but I wanna say it was jew paul but I don't know really. If someone knows - let me know.
Beard - I hope I can ask this question the right way.... I know you used to play everyone you could banks... how did you rank at the rack? How many people above/below you?
Dave
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what a great diplomatically composed question spider...