Grady
90%of your customers smoke? That sounds remarkable to me. Are you sure of that?
Dave Nelson
90%of your customers smoke? That sounds remarkable to me. Are you sure of that?
Dave Nelson
The smoking issue
- Thread starter Grady
- Start date
I see your in D/FW , in the mid 70's i remember some snotty nosed suburbs enacting ordinances against , pool rooms. I can't remember whether the language targeted just pool , think it said arcades.
I think Grady has more problems than just smoking bans , that whole township thing i think is just another way of usurping private property rights from people in unincorporated areas.
I 'm glad we don't have them in Texas , yet.
All the rooms here in Vegas are smoking rooms. One of the biggest reasons I don't hang out in them. The older I get the lower the tolerance I have for smoke filled rooms of any sort so I exercise my right to just not patronize them.
I understand why a room owner wants smoking I just don't like going there unless I have to.
I understand why a room owner wants smoking I just don't like going there unless I have to.
We all know that we shouldn't smoke. That's not the issue. The issue is someone telling you that you can't smoke a legal product in a public place. Let me state that I am not a smoker and never have been, but I don't like anyone telling me what to do. We live in a free country...or do we.
I do agree that smoking should be banned in public places like court house, jails, libraries, etc. Even places like bowling alley that allow kids should banned. What I have a problem with is the blanketing of the law. If an owner wants to have a smoking pool room or non-smoking pool room, he should have the right. If someone wants to have a smoking bar or non-smoking bar, they should have the right.
I also know that seat belts save lives, but I don't want someone forcing me to wear one and then ticketing me too. If you want me to wear a seat belt, then what is next? A helmet in your everyday automobile (yes that would save lives too). How about fireproof clothing, a roll bar and 4 point harness?
But wait what about the people who ride motorcycles? Maybe we should ban them too? Right? Hell, cars kill people too. Maybe we should go back to the horse and buggy. Wait, you can fall off a horse and die too. Now what?
The point is we live in a dangerous world with risks everyday. If someone chooses to smoke they should have a place to do it. Let capitalism work. There may only be one bar in town for smokers, but they will get their share.
Freedom is too valuable to lose.
P.S. I know we have a lot of motorcycle riders here, so don't think I would ever want to ban them.
I do agree that smoking should be banned in public places like court house, jails, libraries, etc. Even places like bowling alley that allow kids should banned. What I have a problem with is the blanketing of the law. If an owner wants to have a smoking pool room or non-smoking pool room, he should have the right. If someone wants to have a smoking bar or non-smoking bar, they should have the right.
I also know that seat belts save lives, but I don't want someone forcing me to wear one and then ticketing me too. If you want me to wear a seat belt, then what is next? A helmet in your everyday automobile (yes that would save lives too). How about fireproof clothing, a roll bar and 4 point harness?
But wait what about the people who ride motorcycles? Maybe we should ban them too? Right? Hell, cars kill people too. Maybe we should go back to the horse and buggy. Wait, you can fall off a horse and die too. Now what?
The point is we live in a dangerous world with risks everyday. If someone chooses to smoke they should have a place to do it. Let capitalism work. There may only be one bar in town for smokers, but they will get their share.
Freedom is too valuable to lose.
P.S. I know we have a lot of motorcycle riders here, so don't think I would ever want to ban them.
Normally I am anti-government and can't stand when they take away freedoms.
I own two restaurant / bars with pool tables and we currently allow smoking. Any place that I have seen in Michigan that tried to go to a non-smoking bar has went out of business. Michigan recently passed a law that is going to take effect in a couple of months to ban smoking in bars. I think this might hurt our business slightly for a while but in the long run will help bring out people who never came in because of the smoke.
I have never smoked and can't stand when I get home and smell like an ashtray.
It would be bad if we were forced to go smoke free but our competition wasn't as in Grady's situation.
The only crazy thing with Michigan's law is we still can't have smoking outdoors if we serve food or drink. Hopefully this will get changed as both of our locations have large decks that would bring in smokers during the warm months.
I own two restaurant / bars with pool tables and we currently allow smoking. Any place that I have seen in Michigan that tried to go to a non-smoking bar has went out of business. Michigan recently passed a law that is going to take effect in a couple of months to ban smoking in bars. I think this might hurt our business slightly for a while but in the long run will help bring out people who never came in because of the smoke.
I have never smoked and can't stand when I get home and smell like an ashtray.
It would be bad if we were forced to go smoke free but our competition wasn't as in Grady's situation.
The only crazy thing with Michigan's law is we still can't have smoking outdoors if we serve food or drink. Hopefully this will get changed as both of our locations have large decks that would bring in smokers during the warm months.
John,
I wouldn't be surprised if negotiations produced amendments or changes to the law that will allow smoking outdoors. Originally in Ohio they were trying to do the same thing, but it read something along the lines of no one can be smoking within 50 feet of an entrance. After 4-6 months of meetings and debates, it was finally agreed upon that business with liquor licenses could have decks and patios for patrons to smoke.
Mars,
I live in Chicago and the state, not Chicago, made it illegal. Let's face it a lot of smokers drink, but not all drinkers smoke. These stupid laws like 15 feet away from the door are just that, stupid. Why not 17.5 feet? or 6.25 if you down wind???? Let innovation and creativity work. You could have one room dedicated for smokers or have a killer smoke eating system. I don't know what someone hasn't invented smoke eaters directly into the bar itself.
I also agree that it is nice not to smell like some after a few hours in the bar. You eyes burn, you hair and clothes smell like crap. The bottom line it I made that choice to hang out there. I knew what I was getting into.
I occasionally like to smoke a cigar, but I will be damned as hell it I want to stand outside a bar (in the cold to smoke it). What is the point? It totally takes away the pleasure. Fortunately for me, it is an easy choice to make. Not so for the chain smoker. As with most things, there is a compromise if one is to look for it.
The next thing you know, we will have the left wing, liberal, cali, bible beaten *****s making good ol' USDA beef illegal and all you can eat is tofu! :wink:
I'll get off my soap box now!
I live in Chicago and the state, not Chicago, made it illegal. Let's face it a lot of smokers drink, but not all drinkers smoke. These stupid laws like 15 feet away from the door are just that, stupid. Why not 17.5 feet? or 6.25 if you down wind???? Let innovation and creativity work. You could have one room dedicated for smokers or have a killer smoke eating system. I don't know what someone hasn't invented smoke eaters directly into the bar itself.
I also agree that it is nice not to smell like some after a few hours in the bar. You eyes burn, you hair and clothes smell like crap. The bottom line it I made that choice to hang out there. I knew what I was getting into.
I occasionally like to smoke a cigar, but I will be damned as hell it I want to stand outside a bar (in the cold to smoke it). What is the point? It totally takes away the pleasure. Fortunately for me, it is an easy choice to make. Not so for the chain smoker. As with most things, there is a compromise if one is to look for it.
The next thing you know, we will have the left wing, liberal, cali, bible beaten *****s making good ol' USDA beef illegal and all you can eat is tofu! :wink:
I'll get off my soap box now!
The problem with your logic is that if the place was smoke free, the 10% would still go and a good portion of the 90% would go as well. This would be a win for the business owner.
Yet 10% are allowed to have behavior that discourages the other 90% from showing up.
Selfish people, that's what it comes down to. Most smokers don't give a crap about the discomfort and harmfull effects thier habit has on other people.
I'm glad we have smoking bans here in Canada. I'm a non-smoker, but often just to be social I'll go outside with my smoker friends and get some fresh air.
You'll go outside with your friends who are smoking to get some fresh air? Isn't that an oxymoron?
Good God Grady
Sounds like you are getting skrewed by the smoking ban only effecting your smal area.IMO it should cover every town,city,county,state.
In my experience pool players who smoke do not mind taking a break to go outside for a cig.
Grady you sound like the old drunk at the bar with his other 2 bar regular buddies grousing about "the government aint got no right...."
Let the scientists invent a product that only inundates the user with the toxins and then its OK for them to use it indoors around other oxegen breathing humans.
Watching an old (but not that old) pool player drag an oxegen tank around the pool table...Hard to get this picture out of my mind.This man still had the desire to play the game but lacked the lungs.I would never of seen this man play if it were not for the first smoking ban to come to the area.I think what younger people do not realize when they begin smoking is that it doesnt just kill you outright 1 day.It is a life long struggle to quit followed by many years of suffering in a hospital and with home care.
We can choose how we want to live but we have to choose.We cannot just let the $$$$ decide everything for us lifestyle and quality of life matter as well.
Sounds like you are getting skrewed by the smoking ban only effecting your smal area.IMO it should cover every town,city,county,state.
In my experience pool players who smoke do not mind taking a break to go outside for a cig.
Grady you sound like the old drunk at the bar with his other 2 bar regular buddies grousing about "the government aint got no right...."
Let the scientists invent a product that only inundates the user with the toxins and then its OK for them to use it indoors around other oxegen breathing humans.
Watching an old (but not that old) pool player drag an oxegen tank around the pool table...Hard to get this picture out of my mind.This man still had the desire to play the game but lacked the lungs.I would never of seen this man play if it were not for the first smoking ban to come to the area.I think what younger people do not realize when they begin smoking is that it doesnt just kill you outright 1 day.It is a life long struggle to quit followed by many years of suffering in a hospital and with home care.
We can choose how we want to live but we have to choose.We cannot just let the $$$$ decide everything for us lifestyle and quality of life matter as well.
Smoking is bad for you, but you should be able to do bad stuff to yourself if you want to.
But smoking doesnt do "bad stuff" to just the smoker, but those around them too. Sorry, the health of those around them trump the bad habit of the individual.
I am a non smoker and have been since October of 2000, and really appreciate that NC has gone non smoking. But, I think that businesses should be allowed to let their patrons smoke..... provided that hey have the proper ventilation to remove the smoke quickly and not bother the non-smokers. It can be done. Look at the cigar rooms, they remove the smoke just fine.
I Have a Compromise
Allow all your customer's to smoke but have them do it over the table. The reason for this is because before you let them do this you attach insdustrial vacuums in each pocket to suck up the smoke. Kind of like the air blowers in bowling alleys but in reverse and 200 times stronger.
Allow all your customer's to smoke but have them do it over the table. The reason for this is because before you let them do this you attach insdustrial vacuums in each pocket to suck up the smoke. Kind of like the air blowers in bowling alleys but in reverse and 200 times stronger.
Allow all your customer's to smoke but have them do it over the table. The reason for this is because before you let them do this you attach insdustrial vacuums in each pocket to suck up the smoke. Kind of like the air blowers in bowling alleys but in reverse and 200 times stronger.
Just think how much easier this would make pool! No more hangers, they would just get sucked in!
We have smoke eaters at both of our bars, but trying to keep an entire bar / restaurant smoke free is impossible if a lot of people are smoking. If you vent directly to the outside you will not be able to keep the temperature constant in cold or hot weather and will spend a fortune trying. Outside decks with heaters will work in Michigan for 9-10 months out of the year if they change the law to allow outside smoking where food or drinks are provided.
Yep
Tap, Tap, Tap. I know common sense is a rarity, but you hit the nail on the head. One's addiction should not affect those who don't have the same nasty vice. Again, our league was not affected one bit. It had 18 teams pre-ban, and 18 teams post ban. Most folks are happy because they smoke less. If you don't belive, drop into the Pyramid Club in Addison and check it out. The state and national tourneys went smokeless, and the smokers still showed up. The DCC was smokeless in all rooms with pool tables, and again, smokers and non-smokers showed up. Gets a little tiring of hearing about the business losing so much business, but folks are going to drink at home just because they can't smoke. Some poolrooms closed in the last year or so, but not because of a smoking ban, but the piss poor economy and lack of interest in pool these days...... Heck, many places give you free pool as long as you are drinking !!!
Tap, Tap, Tap. I know common sense is a rarity, but you hit the nail on the head. One's addiction should not affect those who don't have the same nasty vice. Again, our league was not affected one bit. It had 18 teams pre-ban, and 18 teams post ban. Most folks are happy because they smoke less. If you don't belive, drop into the Pyramid Club in Addison and check it out. The state and national tourneys went smokeless, and the smokers still showed up. The DCC was smokeless in all rooms with pool tables, and again, smokers and non-smokers showed up. Gets a little tiring of hearing about the business losing so much business, but folks are going to drink at home just because they can't smoke. Some poolrooms closed in the last year or so, but not because of a smoking ban, but the piss poor economy and lack of interest in pool these days...... Heck, many places give you free pool as long as you are drinking !!!
How about those driving drunk and endangering others after the leave bars ? , certainly puts others at risk. The police could stake out any bar in the country and arrest several people for drunk driving.
I think that if cities or state authorities mandated that bars be located in industrial areas and that a person had to walk at least a quarter mile to their vehicle not many businesses would like that.
If laws were passed not to allow alcohol sales in beer and liquor stores after 9 pm to combat drunk driving no one would like it , me being one. The only reason the laws were passed is because they are enforceable .
Apples & Oranges
I understand completely where you are coming from as a business owner, but then again, the logic is one-sided. You think you are losing business because smokers want a place to go.. Meanwhile, if smoking was allowed, the same would hold true of people who would not want to be subjected to the poison of cigarette smoke as well. So what you have is a decision to make... If you want a place for smokers (who continually whine about the BS they have to go through to have a cigarette), just have a bar... forget any tables... Have a giant outdoor smoking area.
Remember when Dana Carvey was on Saturday Night Live? He used to do a skit... Grumpy old man (no disrespect)... Draws a certain parallel here.. Sorry you might have to cough up the dough to do your deck Grady.. No one has any extra right now.
Grumpy Old Man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N2E93VzQSA&NR=1
I understand completely where you are coming from as a business owner, but then again, the logic is one-sided. You think you are losing business because smokers want a place to go.. Meanwhile, if smoking was allowed, the same would hold true of people who would not want to be subjected to the poison of cigarette smoke as well. So what you have is a decision to make... If you want a place for smokers (who continually whine about the BS they have to go through to have a cigarette), just have a bar... forget any tables... Have a giant outdoor smoking area.
Remember when Dana Carvey was on Saturday Night Live? He used to do a skit... Grumpy old man (no disrespect)... Draws a certain parallel here.. Sorry you might have to cough up the dough to do your deck Grady.. No one has any extra right now.
Grumpy Old Man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N2E93VzQSA&NR=1
A personal story regarding smoking, a state smoking ban and loss of revenue to a bar/pool room.
Prior to WA state's smoking ban several years back, I'd say that I spent at least four, if not five, afternoons/evenings a week at my favorite bar/pool room spending at least $25 per day on drinks alone (my pool time was always comped having been a pool league operator/president in the same establishment).
Not too long after the start of the smoking ban I bought myself a 9-foot Diamond Pro Am and converted my garage to a rec room... where I can shoot pool and smoke cigars in peace and comfort.
I haven't been back to my favorite bar/pool room in over three years.
BTW and FWIW, I have an exhaust fan in the window that is directly adjacent to my chair... so my guests don't have to endure a dense smoky environment when both of the doors in my garage are closed.
Prior to WA state's smoking ban several years back, I'd say that I spent at least four, if not five, afternoons/evenings a week at my favorite bar/pool room spending at least $25 per day on drinks alone (my pool time was always comped having been a pool league operator/president in the same establishment).
Not too long after the start of the smoking ban I bought myself a 9-foot Diamond Pro Am and converted my garage to a rec room... where I can shoot pool and smoke cigars in peace and comfort.
I haven't been back to my favorite bar/pool room in over three years.
BTW and FWIW, I have an exhaust fan in the window that is directly adjacent to my chair... so my guests don't have to endure a dense smoky environment when both of the doors in my garage are closed.
Grady do you remember playing me at qmasters during the 2003 us open? We played early in the morning (7 or 8 we started playing I believe. We played two sets of 9ball and a race to 4 in one pocket. Remember?
Off topic I know. I was just curious if you remembered.