The True Record Hi Run

I think that there would definitely be something to gain in breaking the record. However if you ask anyone that plays straight pool , regardless of the table, the mental aspect in off the charts to run 526 balls. That's 35 racks...

You see how people argue this about Willie... well if another player broke the record on a 4 1/2 x 9, the same arguments would apply. Was the table rigged, the pockets were 5.525, they were supposed to be 5.524, no record.. bla bla bla... put an asterisk by his name, he used a jump cue for one shot, Willie didn't have a Kamui tip back in his day, player xxx was playing downhill, on and on...

Its a hard record to break, THAT is why it has never been broken.

Joe
 
classiccues said:
I think that there would definitely be something to gain in breaking the record. However if you ask anyone that plays straight pool , regardless of the table, the mental aspect in off the charts to run 526 balls. That's 35 racks...

You see how people argue this about Willie... well if another player broke the record on a 4 1/2 x 9, the same arguments would apply. Was the table rigged, the pockets were 5.525, they were supposed to be 5.524, no record.. bla bla bla... put an asterisk by his name, he used a jump cue for one shot, Willie didn't have a Kamui tip back in his day, player xxx was playing downhill, on and on...

Its a hard record to break, THAT is why it has never been broken.

Joe
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It's been broken though.
Except BCA wouldn't recognize it.
 
one stroke said:
I'm relativity sure he's ran far more than that on a 5x10 ,, I think I read a story somewhere where he quit on a over 600 practice run because he was bored



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I heard that story myself. But I think it was on a 9 footer and he quit because he was hungry. Doesn't matter why he quit if its true.
 
Captain obvious says, running balls ALONE is way different than running them in an actual game against somebody.

Alone, you can smash open the rack and its ducks on a pond, especially on a smaller table
 
You are still about 20 years too soon with this idea.
The mystique of Mosconi is still too fresh in some of us old timers minds.
20 years from now they will talk like he couldn't make a ball in the ocean , 4x8 tables 5 inch pockets etc.
Was the 4 x 8 a gaff?
I believe so .
Mosconi used a 4x8 whenever he could for his exhibitions, so I have to conclude that it was easier for him to make high runs on those , over 41/2 x 9s.
I tried unsuccessfully to find out if there were actually no 41/2 x 9s in the East High Billiard room or if that was bs.
None of the remaining people alive could remember for sure but almost all I talked to, said they thought there were only 4x8s and 5 x 10s at the time the record was made.
The 41/2 x9s came a couple years after his run.(Even though there were at least 4 41/2 x 9 tables sold as the one Mosconi set the record on by the same guy!}
As far as the table being smaller and balls getting tied up , George Rood told me most racks Mosconi seldom had a ball above the side pocket, in effect , he only played on the bottom half of the table anyway!
So it must not have been as big an issue as distance.
 
JoeyInCali said:
It's been broken though.
Except BCA wouldn't recognize it.
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Well there are records that Guinness probably doesn't recognize for similar reasons and IF it was broken, it would be talked about, IMHO more than it is evidently...

JV
 
measureman said:
I heard that story myself. But I think it was on a 9 footer and he quit because he was hungry. Doesn't matter why he quit if its true.
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That was not the only time ,, he walked out on something like 450 at a friend of mine dad's pool hall in silver spring md because they would not pay the expenses for him to stay and catch another flight ,,

It's amusing how low he's was picked in the all time 50 ,,the man was a house hold name , a true icon no one before and no one after has been even remotely close to his recognition ,, certainly not mr 400


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This thread has me wondering if there were any pool halls with tight pockets in the 4 1/2 inch genre back in the Mosconi era? I grew up playing straight pool in the 60's and never saw pockets under 5 inches that I can remember. I played at Marie's Golden Cue with Joe Gold recently on a table he paid to have rebuilt for straight pool and the pockets are 5 inches. I just don't think you can compare high record runs unless they are played on the same exact sized tables with the same pocket sizes. Then you add in to that mix the depth of the shelf of the Diamonds today and the shelf of the Brunswick tables of his era and it gets even more difficult to compare. In todays era we see lots of tables tightened up for the games that are popular today with deeper shelves, these tables are not designed for straight pool. IMO..
 
one stroke said:
I'm relativity sure he's ran far more than that on a 5x10 ,, I think I read a story somewhere where he quit on a over 600 practice run because he was bored




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I've always thought that one of the interesting things about Mosconi was that, unlike some of today's competitors, he didn't lock himself up in a private room, with perfect conditions, set up a break ball, blast them wide open, and attempt high runs over and over. He'd just travel from pool room to pool room, play someone an exhibition match on whatever Brunswick table was available, in front of a crowd with all the attendant pool room distractions and variable conditions, and almost very night in one or two innings run 100. He'd then do some trick shots, sign some autographs, and move on to the next town.

On that night in Springfield, he was playing a local who made three off the break. Willie then ran 200 and, at the urging of the crowd, and just kept going. One attempt.

In one of the late George Fels' column in a recent BD, he tells a story at the end of it about how Charlie Ursitti witnessed Mosconi warming up for a TV match with Fats, in the late 70's, when Willie was in his mid-60's. Willie start playing and ran 588 balls. Mosconi then breaks open the 43th rack, had the balls *wide open,* and puts his cue down after pocketing the 589th ball and said, "Let's go get some dinner. See, its no big deal to run 600 balls."

If a few more folks had been around for the whole run, "the record" would probably be considerably higher, and on a 9'.

Lou Figueroa
 
book collector said:
Mosconi used a 4x8 whenever he could for his exhibitions...
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Do you have a reference for that because I have never heard that before?

As to Springfield and the record, what I had heard was that the 4x8' was the only Brunswick table in the room and as Brunswick was his sponsor that's what he had to play on.

Every time I saw him play it was on a 9' and he made running a 100 look as easy as pie.

Lou Figueroa
 
One additional thought: of course there is no way to know, but to Mosconi pool was just a job. I have to wonder what would have happened if back in his prime, or even later when he was retired from competition and just performing exhibitions, what would have happened if someone had set up a table, put up, say $10K for a high run, and let him go at it. I'm guessing that a) the record would be way higher than 526 and b) it wouldn't have taken very many tries for him to get there.

700? 800? Who knows.

Lou Figueroa
 
Quesports said:
This thread has me wondering if there were any pool halls with tight pockets in the 4 1/2 inch genre back in the Mosconi era? I grew up playing straight pool in the 60's and never saw pockets under 5 inches that I can remember. I played at Marie's Golden Cue with Joe Gold recently on a table he paid to have rebuilt for straight pool and the pockets are 5 inches. I just don't think you can compare high record runs unless they are played on the same exact sized tables with the same pocket sizes. Then you add in to that mix the depth of the shelf of the Diamonds today and the shelf of the Brunswick tables of his era and it gets even more difficult to compare. In todays era we see lots of tables tightened up for the games that are popular today with deeper shelves, these tables are not designed for straight pool. IMO..
Click to expand...

Yes the shimming and pocket shelf on a diamond would make it difficult to achieve ,, but every world class straight pool player has tried to run as many balls as he can countless times and we don't here any stories off anyone that's got close or walked out on runs higher ,, it's certainly not from a lack of trying


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http://hermund.ardalen.com/straightpoolhighruns.htm
600 Plus
PLAYER HIGH RUN

Arthur Babe Cranfield 768 in practice
Tom Parker 642 as told to Dick Leonard
Michael Eufemia 626
No one saw the run from beginning to end, except for Eufemia himself. According to Billiards Digest historian Mike Shamos, this is one of the reasons his record has never been granted official status.


500 Plus
Willie Mosconi 526
Min-Wai Chin 500+


Argue that all day. lol
 
lfigueroa said:
Do you have a reference for that because I have never heard that before?

As to Springfield and the record, what I had heard was that the 4x8' was the only Brunswick table in the room and as Brunswick was his sponsor that's what he had to play on.

Every time I saw him play it was on a 9' and he made running a 100 look as easy as pie.

Lou Figueroa
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My source was George Rood, he and I spent the last 10 or 12 years of his life together playing in and around Springfield Ohio.
He played Mosconi many times in exhibitions and bought the East High Billiards room with Russ Maddox a couple of years after the record was set.
George still played good enough to beat most people when he was 85 years old.
George was not in attendance when Mosconi made his record , but he knew the table well, as that was his main room.
I never, ever felt any sour grapes from George, against Mosconi.
He always talked highly of him , other than that he hated to lose and when he did he got pissy for a while.
Off the table, he said he was a great guy.
 
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I don't mean to hijack this thread but lets take it in a slightly different direction.
Lets wave the magic wand and get all the great straight pool players of all time from Greenleaf to the present. Lets have them all be in their prime and used to what ever equipment we have now. Remember we can do this it's magic.
So now we have all the greats assembled on equal footing. We put them in a room and let them play for 30 days straight pool.
Who comes out the winner?
Now i think Mosconi and Greenleaf have to be the favorites.
Any thoughts?
Remember it's magic.
 
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No ones arguing anything...

I ran 878 balls once....

OK see how easy that was. That's the point. Room full of witnesses or one pool hustler... that is why the record and run is rarely talked about.

JV

JoeyInCali said:
http://hermund.ardalen.com/straightpoolhighruns.htm
600 Plus
PLAYER HIGH RUN

Arthur Babe Cranfield 768 in practice
Tom Parker 642 as told to Dick Leonard
Michael Eufemia 626
No one saw the run from beginning to end, except for Eufemia himself. According to Billiards Digest historian Mike Shamos, this is one of the reasons his record has never been granted official status.


500 Plus
Willie Mosconi 526
Min-Wai Chin 500+


Argue that all day. lol
Click to expand...
 
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classiccues said:
No ones arguing anything...

I ran 878 balls once....

OK see how easy that was. That's the point. Room full of witnesses or one pool hustler... that is why the record and run is rarely talked about.

JV
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I was more alluding to the fact that most of the runs listed were on 9-footers.
I think Thorsten Hohmann would have broken that 526 if there was enough incentives for these guys to keep shooting after 150.
 
measureman said:
I don't mean to hijack this thread but lets take it in a slightly different direction.
Lets wave the magic wand and get all the great straight pool players of all time from Greenleaf to the present. Lets have them all be in their prime and used to what ever equipment we have now. Remember we can do this it's magic.
So now we have all the greats assembled on equal footing. We put them in a room and let them play for 30 days.
Who comes out the winner?
Now i think Mosconi and Greenleaf have to be the favorites.
Any thoughts?
Remember it's magic.
Click to expand...

What game ???
Straight pool died as a tournament and money game a long time ago.
 
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