The truth about Mezz shafts

[Ron Swanson]

Leave this one to the scientists. A person may be better able to draw a cueball with a shaft suited to their hands (i.e. a broomstick is thick and clumsy), but the cueball doesn't care if it is hit with a piece of steel, rubber, a bullet, a whale penis or a cuestick. As long as the energy and friction are the same, it will provide the same result. The person may not be able to create the same result with all the above, but from a physics point of view, it doesn't matter.

As far as stroke goes, here is a test: Grab a house cue with no bumper. Hold the tip at a cueball where a draw shot should be hit. Tightly hold the cue level at that point and have a friend hit the butt of the cue with a hammer. You should see the cueball leave the tip with draw...and great draw, but you will be missing the 'golden element' of what most people say causes great draw...the follow through.

Lol. Scientists like Patrick Johnson? He thinks the same, along with many other mirth producing fantasies.

Shafts matter HUGELY when it comes to CB action. I have to question the technique of those that think otherwise. I doubt they are able to play well enough to notice the difference, frankly.

 

[Straightpool_99]

Ok, let me see if I got this straight. The entire LD shaft thing is a scam, as you call it. But, Predator shaft deflects less than any other shaft you have ever played with.
Color me confused ??[/QUOTE.]

Some LD-shafts deflect less. That part is not a scam. But:

1. Companies charge insane amounts for shafts made of either inferior or at best so-so wood. Of course they have expenses with lamination and innovation, but IMHO they are marking their shafts up a lot. They are free to do so, but I think it's a rip-off.

2. Deflection has been hyped up as the most important factor in a shafts playability. It has some significance, but in reality you could get used to any reasonable amount of deflection.

3. There are even more expensive products than the Predators and OB's on the market, and in my opinion they don't do anything better, and in fact even deflect more than the previously mentioned products. You could have equal results or at least come close with minor modifications to a maple shaft with much lower costs and better feel.

4. There are some laminate/hybrid carbon shafts on the market that do not even have lower deflection than a normal maple shaft, but claim to. (Some Tiger and McDermott products). This is a complete waste and in my book false advertising. I can't prove it, since their benchmark could be the most deflecting shaft in existence, but by comparison with normal shafts with a medium ferrule of a normal plastic material, they do deflect equally much.

 

[Ron Swanson]

As for mezz cues, colour me meh. Vastly overrated and far, far too expensive. I'm sure i could learn to love one given time, but no shaft comes close to a 314-2 for me, especially on a predator cue.

 

[trinacria]

You guys wanna laugh, we talk about mezz and OB and predator and they all have ridiculous prices, but I bet you all if I gave you all the LD out there without a logo or blind folded and get the feel for a cue, you would all choose the players HXT shafts. The cue shaft plays fantastic and you would all be surprised. The only reason no one talks about them is bc they are players brand cues and it's below you all. The skinny and regular are both full maple too, the only thing I don't like about them and predator started doin his as well is the finish on them. I like bare wood.

 

[Ron Swanson]

I recently hit with a brand new Mezz my friend ordered custom directly from them, very nice figured wood stained grey with nice rings. He LOVES IT he says, I thought it felt like its made of plastic, it felt hollow and very stiff. The LD property of the shaft is absolutley fantastic, I hit a shot full table with extreme right and the ball went right where it was supposed to, but its been said that mezz feels like the closest thing to custom you can get from a production cue, I disagree wholeheartedly. the closest thing to custom from production is Schon and Jacoby to me, the mezz has the best ld, but it feels weird. I always say that this subject on cue hits is subjective, which it is, but for that kinda money I'll go OB, Predator or Jacoby for LD shafts. SS360 shafts I read about everyonce in a while people say are good, but the maker of that shaft was a huge DI-CK to me once so I won't buy it out of principle. thats my opinion and im sticking with it.

Bob may be a cranky old git, but he has courage of his convictions to give the benefit of the doubt to. He's a bit like Barton - objectionable at times, but you know he's worth buying from. Not that Barton would ever actually sell me anything lol.

 

[trinacria]

Bob may be a cranky old git, but he has courage of his convictions to give the benefit of the doubt to. He's a bit like Barton - objectionable at times, but you know he's worth buying from. Not that Barton would ever actually sell me anything lol.

Don't need anyone to tell me different, I stand by what I say as well. I'm sure he's great with whoever he gets along with.

 

[frigopie]

sorry but you can do anything with any shaft on the market, no matter its tip diameter or taper... maybe the shaft gives not enough confidence to you when you shoot and you hit neared to the center than you may think

 

[KMRUNOUT]

IMO the whole ld-shaft thing is a giant scam,

The deflection of the Z2 is however unmatched. It has lower deflection than any other shaft I've ever tried (with the possible exception of OB2).

I'd much rather have a nice quality maple shaft if I could only get used to the deflection.

That makes zero sense to me.

OK...your last statement there clears it up lol. Sounds like you are saying that LD shafts do exactly what they are supposed to do, but because the wood isn't nice quality they are a scam? The research and development is worth nothing? Not the most consistent post this year...

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

SVB ? Efren?
Bustamante ? Strickland ?

SVB: Cuetec R360 LD shaft

Efren: tons of deflection

Busty: not sure

Strickland: Mike Gulyassi cue with very low deflection (I've hit with it).

FYI.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

You guys wanna laugh, we talk about mezz and OB and predator and they all have ridiculous prices, but I bet you all if I gave you all the LD out there without a logo or blind folded and get the feel for a cue, you would all choose the players HXT shafts. The cue shaft plays fantastic and you would all be surprised. The only reason no one talks about them is bc they are players brand cues and it's below you all. The skinny and regular are both full maple too, the only thing I don't like about them and predator started doin his as well is the finish on them. I like bare wood.

I've tried many LD shafts and played with one for about 15 years. I currently use the OB Pro + and love it. I've tried the Players HXT. Its "ok". Definitely not bad. For the money, fantastic. I did not think, however, that it played as good as the OB's and Predators I've used. I don't care who makes what or how much it costs. It is a nice option. Some may love it. I just liked it.

KMRUNOUT

 

[frigopie]

Lol. Scientists like Patrick Johnson? He thinks the same, along with many other mirth producing fantasies.

Shafts matter HUGELY when it comes to CB action. I have to question the technique of those that think otherwise. I doubt they are able to play well enough to notice the difference, frankly.

Like Dr. Dave, Bob Jewett, etc. people that really knows what is happening in there when the cue hits the ball and can quantify and describe it with equations and numbers. Feeling is ok, but numbers rule...

 

[Kim Bye]

Low deflection is not a scam, it`s simple physics. How much it improves your game is a whole other question.
Some LD shaft manufacturers sacrifice feel and hit for good LD properties.
Mezz does not, their shafts have great feel, yet deflects pretty good.
As for price, I don`t see that Mezz is more expensive than other products out there.

 

[jb1911]

Low deflection is not a scam, it`s simple physics. How much it improves your game is a whole other question.
Some LD shaft manufacturers sacrifice feel and hit for good LD properties.
Mezz does not, their shafts have great feel, yet deflects pretty good.
As for price, I don`t see that Mezz is more expensive than other products out there.

What he said ^

 

[overlord]

I think one of the highest quality LD shafts is made by Tiger. I don't think that Efren plays with an LD shaft and never has.

When you have a softer ferrule is way easier to draw the ball. I've played with a Mezz and I liked it although the shaft wood was not cured correctly and would pick up dings very easily as the wood was still too wet.

One pocket players don't want a shaft that is too stiff. At this time I have gone back to basics hard rock maple and a ivory ferrule. Tiger onyx tip.

 

[ARCHY2]

Out of most of the low deflection shafts I have hit with Mezz shafts seem to be the most solid but they also feel the stiffest. I don't care for a whippy shaft like a Meucci but damn I also don't want to feel like I'm playing with with rebar. This is especially true IMO with the WX700. I would rather play with probably any other shaft on the market than that one, mainly because it requires so much effort to put draw on the ball and it feels like shit to me. (hit with)

The WX900 on the other hand is the best conical taper LD shaft ever made (owned). The amount of English possible with that shaft is ridiculous and it feels very solid but there are some things that you can't do because it isn't a pro taper.

The Hybrid Pro Alpha isn't supossed to have many LD characteristics but hits well according to some I have talked to. It used to be Mika's shaft of choice. Jeff De Luna plays with it currently.

Now the HPII is a great shaft(owned). It has a little more deflection than the WX900 but is graduated(google it) taper. I have a few good friends who play quite well that swear by the HPII and I have played with one before and like it well enough.

I haven't played with the EX Pro or heard much about it so if you have info or a review feel free to reply.

Now. HOLY S@$T THESE SHAFTS ARE #$%#$% EXPENSIVE. I'm guessing Mezz doesn't sell blanks, which is smart because that means they control the market for their shaft very efficiently and can charge pretty much whatever they want. For the WX900 and WX700 they charge $240-$280 depending on the joint. The EX Pro is $400 as of now but only in the Mezz joints so probably more for other joint types. The HPII and HP A are both $330 to $370. Mezz has a break shaft they charge $330 for...

I have also seen the shaft wood they use and I don't care what kind of core your shaft has, is there is a knot in the shaft wood it is going to affect how it hits.

Edit: The truth is they are expensive. That was my point. I'm not knocking them merely stating they are one of the most if not the most expensive production shaft on the market with predator following close behind. I didn't want to just post a thread sating they were expensive and sound like a hater, because I'm not. I am also not against LD shafts. LD and laminated are two different things, and if the wood is quality they both have their merits. PFD, Klapp, Lambros, Durbin(don't remember if they are laminated or not) and couple other custom cue makers have LD shafts.

Been playing since dirt was found. Hit most LD shafts early when they came out strong. Did not care for any one of them. Being a fair shooter - never had serious problems, however their feel was not comfy or pleasant to me. 2 came up with hairline splits one with a lot more then hairline. Nobody would replace - sent back and they epoxied them. DUHHHH

Now and always hand picked and tested maple top end cured etc for pool. Same for 3c except straight tapers and my own formula for tip end 5 inches of taper and tip install. SO THERE

ARCHY2 FRENCHY

 

[asbani]

here is a test: Grab a house cue with no bumper. Hold the tip at a cueball where a draw shot should be hit. Tightly hold the cue level at that point and have a friend hit the butt of the cue with a hammer. You should see the cueball leave the tip with draw...and great draw, but you will be missing the 'golden element' of what most people say causes great draw...the follow through.

I just did this test, with house pool cue that look decent, then I grab one of my friends nice cue, a schon...

I put the cueball and object ball, same distance, same place, not too far, not too close, I hit the cueball in the same exact place with draw stroke, my own draw stroke on both shots, to try and make the same shot, with the same power/speed.

I drew more with the schon cue than the house cue, as a matter of fact the house cue didnt draw all that much, the cueball died like a fish out of the water.

As I said, stroke matters, but alot of other factors also matter, cue, shaft, weight of cue, tip, so many things, as I said before on my earlier post, there is noway on hell that nothing matters except the stroke as some of you think. with a broom and tip you wouldnt be able to make good cueball action like you would with a good cue/shaft.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Like Dr. Dave, Bob Jewett, etc. people that really knows what is happening in there when the cue hits the ball and can quantify and describe it with equations and numbers. Feeling is ok, but numbers rule...

Numbers are ok, but feel rules.

I don't need anyone to tell me how easy it is to draw a ball with any of my cues.

 

[SWN99]

LD shafts are funny,not consistent,not qulity,built with cheap materials,too expensive,and holly crap in the matter of fact:smile::smile::smile:
Companies who build them,all they do great is marketing them good and progressive what makes people believe they are good or worthed of money.
There is nothing better than a great Maple or lakewood shaft

Perhaps it is time to start calling them HM shafts for High Marketing instead of deflection.

 

[Scott Lee]

asbani...A broom is not a cuestick shaft. I didn't say anything about comfort. I said a particular shaft makes no difference in whether you can draw or spin the CB. You may disagree, but it's still true. Action on the CB happens with a good stroke and a decent tip.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I'm no teacher or scientist of the game of pool, but I 100% disagree with this statement, you don't need to study or make experiments to see that this is just wrong. Stroke does play huge part of spin and draw shots but you could have the best stroke in the entire world and if I bring to you a broom with a kamui tip, you wouldnt be able to draw as good as if I bring to you a decent shaft with good taper and good tip.

Hell you could draw better with good shaft and lepro, than a broom with kamui tip, I'm sorry it just doesn't make sense what you said, you dont even need to be that smart to think for 10mins about this then think, umm no. you need good stroke and good cue to be able to draw better, and its not about being comfortable.

 

[ElCorazonFrio]

I just did this test, with house pool cue that look decent, then I grab one of my friends nice cue, a schon...

I put the cueball and object ball, same distance, same place, not too far, not too close, I hit the cueball in the same exact place with draw stroke, my own draw stroke on both shots, to try and make the same shot, with the same power/speed.

I drew more with the schon cue than the house cue, as a matter of fact the house cue didnt draw all that much, the cueball died like a fish out of the water.

As I said, stroke matters, but alot of other factors also matter, cue, shaft, weight of cue, tip, so many things, as I said before on my earlier post, there is noway on hell that nothing matters except the stroke as some of you think. with a broom and tip you wouldnt be able to make good cueball action like you would with a good cue/shaft.

That is not the test I described in any shape or form.

I suggested that particular test to show that the stroke/follow through doesn't cause draw, only the energy imparted on the cueball.

Come back when you can comprehend what you probably can't read.