Theory About The Break

9 ball

9 ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After watching what turned out to be a great tournament at the turning stone casino and watching countless break shots over the tournament it go me thinking, from what I saw most of the players hardly moved on the break shot with the exception of JA and got a tremendous amount of power behind the break which led me to this eventual theory:

It is a possibility that all the "shifting your weight to increase power on the break" is all just a load of bunkum because the power generated from the legs will do nothing of note to how hard you slam the rack.

Now some of you out there might think "this guy is an absolute crazy person" but the break shot the way it is performed at the moment does nothing to increase power why I hear you ask and the answer is a simple one because at the point of impact with the cue ball players are actually off balance and this is causing players to hit the ball with unintended side spin which inevitably causes them to lose position on the cue ball or worse scratch on the break.

The best comparison I can make is with darts, you see when throwing a darts it is absolutely imperative that no other part of the body should move except for the arm itself because if the rest of the body moves the throw becomes deviated from the intended target thus decreasing the chances of scoring high to win the leg.

So if we apply this same theory to the game of pool by having a rock solid stance at the table with nothing moving below the waist i.e. legs, an just concentrate on moving the cue faster through the follow through I think you will that yes we will still have the power breaks but we will also have more control on the cue ball, more run outs and less scratches on the break when breaking from either the box or indeed the side rail.
 
9 ball said:
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So if we apply this same theory to the game of pool by having a rock solid stance at the table with nothing moving below the waist i.e. legs, an just concentrate on moving the cue faster through the follow through I think you will that yes we will still have the power breaks but we will also have more control on the cue ball, more run outs and less scratches on the break when breaking from either the box or indeed the side rail.
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You hit the nail on the head. Control is the king of the break shot.
 
9 ball said:
After watching what turned out to be a great tournament at the turning stone casino and watching countless break shots over the tournament it go me thinking, from what I saw most of the players hardly moved on the break shot with the exception of JA and got a tremendous amount of power behind the break which led me to this eventual theory:

It is a possibility that all the "shifting your weight to increase power on the break" is all just a load of bunkum because the power generated from the legs will do nothing of note to how hard you slam the rack.

Now some of you out there might think "this guy is an absolute crazy person" but the break shot the way it is performed at the moment does nothing to increase power why I hear you ask and the answer is a simple one because at the point of impact with the cue ball players are actually off balance and this is causing players to hit the ball with unintended side spin which inevitably causes them to lose position on the cue ball or worse scratch on the break.

The best comparison I can make is with darts, you see when throwing a darts it is absolutely imperative that no other part of the body should move except for the arm itself because if the rest of the body moves the throw becomes deviated from the intended target thus decreasing the chances of scoring high to win the leg.

So if we apply this same theory to the game of pool by having a rock solid stance at the table with nothing moving below the waist i.e. legs, an just concentrate on moving the cue faster through the follow through I think you will that yes we will still have the power breaks but we will also have more control on the cue ball, more run outs and less scratches on the break when breaking from either the box or indeed the side rail.
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IMO you are right; there is no reason to jump up in the air, kick yorrself in the ass with your leg, or almost land on your face on the table. I can get a good break with arm and wrist to make 1 or 2 and spread the rest of them out...even on a 9' table. :grin: Johnnyt
 
I feel that body motion is key to building the snapping stroke motion that makes for more arm speed. Its more of a hip turn than a leg thrust. Some players do get it a little exagerated however. IMO
 
mudball said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCBs6T2kMI

That is all that needs to be shown/said about the break. It cannot get any better than that.
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I am not sure what you are saying about SVB's break but there is a lot going on. Legs, hip, and shoulder are involved.

If it is true that you can get a power break from just stroke and no body movement than who is everyone referring to? Please name some power breakers that only use their arm and not their body.
 
2.5 pack said:
I am not sure what you are saying about SVB's break but there is a lot going on. Legs, hip, and shoulder are involved.

If it is true that you can get a power break from just stroke and no body movement than who is everyone referring to? Please name some power breakers that only use their arm and not their body.
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Accuracy and timing are everything. You don't have to throw your feet up behind your head or anything like that. Shane moves his upper body forward first, then he strokes it, its almost like slow motion every time. This combined with hitting the head ball as full as possible generates the best break in the business today, IMO.
 
Evgeny stalev, Shane, and John Morra all have breaks I like. They all take a large, pausing backswing, then follow through hard and precise. Stalev exaggerates it the most but he his is also the most powerful imo. Take a look his break. You cant beat it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l2X4fW262M
 
well as you can see from the above clip nothing moves, all svb does is simply rise up for the follow through and applies power with nothing more than a smooth fast follow through when contacting the cue ball with no lower body movement whatsoever.
 
This something I have come to realize over the years.

75% of Breaking power is generated from stick speed generated from the arm, or bicep muscle. Breaking only using this muscle well create 100% accuracy. Basically your hardest playing stroke.

15% of Breaking Power is generated from the wrist, the wrist can help accelerate the cue even faster then the arm. More acceleration means more sticke speed at the point of impact. I believe their can be a slight loss in accuracy if timing hasn't been practiced.

10% of Breaking Power is generated by the body, I don't know how the body contributes to stick speed, but some how it does. If you disagree with this, then think about this for a minute. Why do all pro golfers move there hips into thier drive? Have you ever seen a pro golfer stay stationer during their drive? No, the reason is is because the body movement contributes to their swing speed. How? I don't know but it does! Now their can be a a dramatic loss in accuracy if timing is not esablished and practiced thoroughly.

I believe the break should be pracitced and learned in this order. By mastering first the arm, then the wrist, then the body, one should be able to develop a masterful break.

One more note, in a lesson I had with Archer in the past. He discussed the use of bodymovement in the break. Its not a thrusting of your body, but more of a transfer of weight from the back foot to the front foot, that is timed perfectly. I know he does alot more than that, but he said that is all that is needed. I also agree with the turning of the hips into the break, because this is what a golfer does.
 
spliced said:
Evgeny stalev, Shane, and John Morra all have breaks I like. They all take a large, pausing backswing, then follow through hard and precise. Stalev exaggerates it the most but he his is also the most powerful imo. Take a look his break. You cant beat it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l2X4fW262M
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First thing that comes to mind after watching that break is how accurately he hit the head ball. The importance of hitting it as square as possible cannot be stressed enough. Even with mediocre power you will get great results when doing this. When you combine it with Stalev/Archer/SVB power its produces tremendous results.
 
I am sorry centre pocket but the comparison between a golf swing and the movement of a pool cue during the break shot is not a proper comparison:

Golfers NEED to use the force generated from there hips to propel the ball because are having to cover a vast distance right from the off.

Pool players do not hence why absolutely no lower body movement is needed because a pool player can generate to the same amount of torque just by using a smooth quick stroke when breaking because as has been said before the power is generated from the bicep and forearm, NOT the lower body this is not a golf swing therefore we DO NOT need the needless flayling (sp) on limbs on the break it does not help anything.

It just adds to your problems i.e. failing to control the white during the break.
 
9 ball said:
well as you can see from the above clip nothing moves, all svb does is simply rise up for the follow through and applies power with nothing more than a smooth fast follow through when contacting the cue ball with no lower body movement whatsoever.
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Maybe not in this video but when SVB is really breaking hard he uses his hips into it. He also raises the butt of his cue to get more of that pop. Yeah he hits the one super square but the raising of the butt is also the reason for the big pop. He does have the best timing so that is why he has one of the best breaks.
 
I for one am not going to tell Johnny how to break. I think your dart comparison is way off since the dart doesn't have to be thrown at a different speed then the rest of the throws in the game. You dont say to yourself, I closed all my numbers so let me wind up and shoot bulls 50mph, you just use the same stroke. You never have to throw a dart at warp speed.

I also think the guy with the most devasting break in 9 ball (busta) might use his legs a little.

Since the cut break, a lot of power breaking and jumping in the air has stopped. Obviously the cut break wasn't working at TS and Johnny just started smashing them and guess what it worked. Breaking 9 ball became more of a science as players learned to read racks, but that doesn't mean if you want to smash them you should stand still.

Watch Hillbilly's video on the break. He does a perfect job breaking it down into section and just destroying the balls.
 
You have to agree though that swing speed is what creates power on the break. Therefore, if you can disprove that bodymovement does contribute to swing speed in any way, I will delete my first post. Transfering your weight forward moves your upper body forward (not your lower body!) as well as the reference point of the pendulum swing (the hinge or elbow) forward too. Even if that forward movement adds 1/2 a MPH to your swing speed, that helps in the power department. Is it worth the loss in accuracy, usually not. When I am breaking on fast tables I usually only use my arm. If the cloth is slow then I add wrist, if that doesnt get it down, I add a little body movement. Ofcourse i will try breaking from a diffrent location before adding other variables.
 
Shane's break is the clearest illustration of the most important element in a power break: straightening the arm for more "leverage" and using the shoulder muscles to move it with more force/speed. All the body movement does is raise the shoulder so that can happen. All the rest is secondary.

pj
chgo
 
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