They never saw the $$$$....

[cincyman]

i havent done that since 95, and the $$$ I made like that accounts for less than 1% of my net worth, I did some bad things, no dount. I wont hide that fact of lie about it. And yeah at the time I was so down and out I loved it, now I feel like shit about what I did wrong 13 years ago.


i have no beef or anger with anyone here on AZ, hell I like everyone. Even Cincydude I rep him as much as possible. i want to see him climb in the ranks

Thanks!!!!!! but i got filled up already awhile back making fun of you

 

[watchez]

You and I have not spoken to Chuck Bobbit, and neither of us know his side of the story.

I refuse to believe this pool sponsor deliberately, with malice aforethought, intended on ripping off pool players at this tournament.

His only mistake was to sponsor pool to begin with. It will kick you in the ass time and time again, no matter how much you pour into it.

Today, he is getting roasted on this forum as if he's Satan. Pool always seems to be cruel to its own.

I predict everyone will get paid. JAM

True, I have not spoken to Chuck. But unless Fatboy, Jay & others are lying about the facts I do know this:

1. He wrote checks that he obviously, without any doubt knew would not cash. Obviously he didn't want to face anyone knowing they would be upset. Now it looks like he will be put in jail for it. As Jay stated, bouncing a check in this country is a felony. Maybe he is selling the tables to pay for his impending legal fees & not to pay the players.

2. He has stopped taking Jay's phone calls & has told a different story each time he did answer the phone. Doesn't sound like he is ready to be upfront with anyone - especially the man that helped him most with his tournament. And a man that is willing to put the pool players first before he gets paid his agreed upon TD fee.

3. I have owned a business. Not sure how many posters, pool players, or Chuck have. When you own a business (which essentially what running/promoting pool tournaments is) you don't go all in before you open the doors. You need to have reserve cash in case something goes wrong. If you don't have the reserve cash then you cannot afford to operate the business. When I had my store, I wasn't with empty pockets hoping that the first day/first week I would do $1000s in business so my bills that come up faster than you think would be paid. That would have been idiotic & destined me to fail. Guess what? Chuck failed.

Does he have any Diamond 7 foot smart tables for sale? I'll help him out & give him $1000 for one. I have to see it first, along with a receipt that he actually owns the table.

 

[tomgearhart]

My 2-Cents

As a past promoter, I know what it takes to run a high profile pro tournament. I also know that to add $25,000 to the tournament takes revenue from a lot of sources: banner ads, program ads, vendor booths, intrested sponsors, spectators, deals with nearby hotels to get percentages from hotel room rentals, cue raffles, table raffles, and a whole lot of volunteers that love the game.

It also requires about 6-months of solid work putting it all together along with a business model to estimate all expenses, projected ticket sales, paid entrants, etc.. I agree with JAM. This promoter got in WAY over his head. However, with this being said, that is no excuse. He should have had a plan in place months ago to either cancel the tournament when he saw that this wasn't going to work (and believe me, he knew months before that this tournament wasn't going to be a success) or had a plan in place to pay the players if the tournament proceeded.

I agree with Mark Griffin that some sort of escrow should probably be put into place. With that said though, it will seriously curtail the number of existing tournaments that rely heavily on gate receipts, vendors, and all the things I mentioned above for the money to pay the players. An unfortunate act of God, like the ones that befell the Behrman's, is enough to bankrupt most promoters. Maybe Fatboy, or someone like Fatboy, could issue some sort of payment surety bond to qualified promoters for a fee that would guarantee payment to the players.

My 2-cents.

Tom Gearhart

 

[corvette1340]

True, I have not spoken to Chuck. But unless Fatboy, Jay & others are lying about the facts I do know this:

1. He wrote checks that he obviously, without any doubt knew would not cash. Obviously he didn't want to face anyone knowing they would be upset. Now it looks like he will be put in jail for it. As Jay stated, bouncing a check in this country is a felony. Maybe he is selling the tables to pay for his impending legal fees & not to pay the players.

2. He has stopped taking Jay's phone calls & has told a different story each time he did answer the phone. Doesn't sound like he is ready to be upfront with anyone - especially the man that helped him most with his tournament. And a man that is willing to put the pool players first before he gets paid his agreed upon TD fee.

3. I have owned a business. Not sure how many posters, pool players, or Chuck have. When you own a business (which essentially what running/promoting pool tournaments is) you don't go all in before you open the doors. You need to have reserve cash in case something goes wrong. If you don't have the reserve cash then you cannot afford to operate the business. When I had my store, I wasn't with empty pockets hoping that the first day/first week I would do $1000s in business so my bills that come up faster than you think would be paid. That would have been idiotic & destined me to fail. Guess what? Chuck failed.

Does he have any Diamond 7 foot smart tables for sale? I'll help him out & give him $1000 for one. I have to see it first, along with a receipt that he actually owns the table.

I'll take one of those smart tables myself.

 

[JAM]

As a past promoter, I know what it takes to run a high profile pro tournament. I also know that to add $25,000 to the tournament takes revenue from a lot of sources: banner ads, program ads, vendor booths, intrested sponsors, spectators, deals with nearby hotels to get percentages from hotel room rentals, cue raffles, table raffles, and a whole lot of volunteers that love the game.

It also requires about 6-months of solid work putting it all together along with a business model to estimate all expenses, projected ticket sales, paid entrants, etc.. I agree with JAM. This promoter got in WAY over his head. However, with this being said, that is no excuse. He should have had a plan in place months ago to either cancel the tournament when he saw that this wasn't going to work (and believe me, he knew months before that this tournament wasn't going to be a success) or had a plan in place to pay the players if the tournament proceeded.

I agree with Mark Griffin that some sort of escrow should probably be put into place. With that said though, it will seriously curtail the number of existing tournaments that rely heavily on gate receipts, vendors, and all the things I mentioned above for the money to pay the players. An unfortunate act of God, like the ones that befell the Behrman's, is enough to bankrupt most promoters. Maybe Fatboy, or someone like Fatboy, could issue some sort of payment surety bond to qualified promoters for a fee that would guarantee payment to the players.

My 2-cents.

Tom Gearhart

That is a good suggestion, Tom.

I'm not sure what happened out there in Arizona, but it is hard to believe this promoter intended to rip off the players.

I hope he gets out of this trick-bag, pays everyone off, and doesn't allow himself to get involved in something this big again. It is unfortunate for all involved.

Hope all is well with you and yours. I miss your events.

JAM

 

[Ktown D]

I'll take one of those smart tables myself.

third......(and I don't need to see a receipt)

I just want to do my part to see the players get paid.

 

[av84fun]

Apparently I must spread some rep around before giving it to JAM again. The funny thing is, JAM and I have not always gotten along and argued about some subjects before... but I truly admire the way she is always looking for the other side of the story. The truth here is that everyone hears "money" and "stiffed" and no one here really knows what happened, but are very quick to judge. I just feel like sometimes JAM shows a decency and patience with people that we could all learn from around here.

I too admire people with soft hearts as JAM seems to have.

But while soft hearts are admirable, MY heart goes out to dozens of players, who in total spent THOUSANDS of dollars to enter and travel to the event.

The POINT is that the man WROTE THE CHECKS! He may be an older gentleman but I presume he is not senile and knew that he did not have sufficient funds to cover the checks.

What he obviously did was to plan on the fact that many of the players would leave town NOT KNOWING that their checks were going to bounce and that there is little they can do...other than report the incident to the authorities...to get their money.

A MAN...with any STONES would have talked to the players...face to face...and explained whatever he had to explain rather than send them home with check in their pocket which, in some cases, probably caused the PLAYER'S checks to bounce when his did.

There is simply no excuse for that....NONE.

Regards,
Jim

 

[Andrew Manning]

As a past promoter, I know what it takes to run a high profile pro tournament. I also know that to add $25,000 to the tournament takes revenue from a lot of sources: banner ads, program ads, vendor booths, intrested sponsors, spectators, deals with nearby hotels to get percentages from hotel room rentals, cue raffles, table raffles, and a whole lot of volunteers that love the game.

It also requires about 6-months of solid work putting it all together along with a business model to estimate all expenses, projected ticket sales, paid entrants, etc.. I agree with JAM. This promoter got in WAY over his head. However, with this being said, that is no excuse. He should have had a plan in place months ago to either cancel the tournament when he saw that this wasn't going to work (and believe me, he knew months before that this tournament wasn't going to be a success) or had a plan in place to pay the players if the tournament proceeded.

I agree with Mark Griffin that some sort of escrow should probably be put into place. With that said though, it will seriously curtail the number of existing tournaments that rely heavily on gate receipts, vendors, and all the things I mentioned above for the money to pay the players. An unfortunate act of God, like the ones that befell the Behrman's, is enough to bankrupt most promoters. Maybe Fatboy, or someone like Fatboy, could issue some sort of payment surety bond to qualified promoters for a fee that would guarantee payment to the players.

My 2-cents.

Tom Gearhart

This is the relevant "other side of the story" that I was looking for. He planned the tournament before he had the money, under the assumption that he would make enough money from the tournament to cover the payouts. This was apparently a bad assumption, but at least it's a plausible explanation for how he planned for the players to get paid. I retract my earlier speculation about whether he ever planned to play the players and whether or not he is in fact a scumbag.

Sounds to me like he just showed very bad judgment, and now he and the players and Jay all have to suffer for it. That sucks, but hopefully he will make it right by paying the players soon, so that the consequences of his judgment only fall on himself. That's the way to come out of this doing the right thing. Hopefully he'll get some good money for some of those tables.

-Andrew

 

[JAM]

I too admire people with soft hearts as JAM seems to have, but in her post she stated that she doesn't know his side of the story and yet says that he is selling off assets.

Somebody posted on this thread -- I don't know where -- that he was selling pool tables on Craig's List right now. That is the only reason I mentioned him selling off assets to get liquid, hopefully to pay the players and Jay.

JAM

 

[ScottW]

Somebody posted on this thread -- I don't know where -- that he was selling pool tables on Craig's List right now. That is the only reason I mentioned him selling off assets to get liquid, hopefully to pay the players and Jay.

Said Craigslist post has been deleted by the original poster, FYI.

 

[JAM]

Said Craigslist post has been deleted by the original poster, FYI.

Maybe he sold them!

JAM

 

[junksecret]

Stand in line, I know it would be hard writing and calling all those names, but I would suffer those 2 days for only $2100. Save $400 now... call 555-save today.

Man, for ANY poster who thinks Jay's job was writing some names on a clipboard and calling them....what PLANET have you been hangin' out at??????

I suspect if the amount of work that Jay puts in on an event like this was broken down to an hourly rate.....well a paper hat and a chicken suit would probably be as lucrative.

Jay, who is an INSTITUTION in the world of pool clearly does it out of his love of the game not the paultry $2,500 for all his work. He mentioned flying back to AZ on his own dime to deal with this guy if it will help.

Jay, I know you don't need ME to defend you, and in fact can do a much better job yourself I'm sure....but I also know your concern isn't defending yourself against the ill-informed, but rather it's getting these guy paid.

I think I might be wearin' out the bumper on this cue, but.....tap, tap,tap.

Joe

 

[stuckart]

Pool tables

I think the said pool tables he has listed for sale are actually the tables that are in Alexander's Bar in Phoenix. I heard that he owns or partially own those tables. Alexander's is fighting to stay open and is one of the premier pool halls in the valley for the past 25+ years. They were going to close up shop after tomorrow, so I think he listed the tables. But now I'm hearing they are going to stay open longer so the tables are probably not for sale.

 

[fanthom]

Unfortunately, Fatboy's post is correct. i have been in communication with Chuck since last Thursday when it first surfaced that the checks were no good. After four days of repeated promises he quit returning my calls today. He has told several different stories to people about why this happened and what he was going to do about it. So far that's all they are, good stories.

I am at my wit's end dealing with this man. It was all I could do to help him rescue this event when the hotel soured on the deal, and now this. I've had a million dollars worth of aggravation dealing with him in the last two weeks. He did show Frank Alvarez (President of the UPA) and me a bank statement showing enough money to cover most of the prize fund on the first day of the tournament. I reminded him that no matter what, the prize money is SACRED! Well, he didn't get the message.

Chuck actually paid places 7th-16th in cash, and cashed Rob Saez's check for $2,800 on the final day. He owed me $2,500 for directing the tournament, minus the entry fee I paid for Dave Hemmah. So I got a $2,100 check which came back on Saturday. I am quite willing to be in the back of the line for getting paid. I want the pool players paid NOW! PERIOD!!! And Chuck knows this. I don't care what kind of problems he is having with his other business. He made a promise to pay and he will, or go to jail!

I have been in touch with the Phoenix Police Department and Maricopa County Check Enforcement Division. They take these kind of things quite seriously and I plan to fly over and press charges against him. I have a copy of my bad check, and I will try to get copies of the players checks as well. I no longer have any sympathy for this guy. He has been lying to me for several days now, telling me that he was taking care of everything.

I have been a bulldog on Chuck's ass for days now, calling him night and day. I WILL NOT REST UNTIL ALL THE PLAYERS HAVE BEEN PAID!

Jay, I'll slightly edit the words of Scott Frost (playing Efren 1H in YouTube) , "Neither Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama nor John McCain got sh*t on you!" YOU DA MAN! Lead this country and be the next president!

Here's a magic word/name or mantra to get Chuckie to pay-up . . . "LORENA, LORENA, LOREEEENA ! ! !" For the AZBrs not old enough, Lorena was the tormented of the then wife of JOHN WAYNE BOBBITT whom she caught cheating on her. In the midst of her mental torment, she lost touch of reality (so they said) . One night, while JWB was zonked out, Lorena pulled his wanger and severed his manhood with a pair of scissors.

Seriously though, how true is the saying - HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF ONLY WITH A DIFFERENT TIME, CHARACTERS AND SETTING. First was the KT- sponsored hoopla, then actionhound and now this. I say, until all players (and their stakehorses) unite and demand tournament funds be in escrow, this same fiasco will always reveal itself. It's the herpes of pool.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I think the said pool tables he has listed for sale are actually the tables that are in Alexander's Bar in Phoenix. I heard that he owns or partially own those tables. Alexander's is fighting to stay open and is one of the premier pool halls in the valley for the past 25+ years. They were going to close up shop after tomorrow, so I think he listed the tables. But now I'm hearing they are going to stay open longer so the tables are probably not for sale.

What you want for the tables ?

We're not for sale.

Not for sale ?
There's no such thing as not for sale.

''Not for sale'' !
Not for sale, eh ?

- Are they a pair or would you
consider sellin' 'em separate ?


(Anyone want to guess the movie???)

 

[JAM]

I say, until all players (and their stakehorses) unite and demand tournament funds be in escrow, this same fiasco will always reveal itself.

That was supposed to be one of the functions of the UPA. UPA would sanction a tournament if the tournament monies were in escrow. That is what UPA sanctioning is supposed to mean, to assure all UPA member players payment at a UPA-sanctioned event.

The UPA wouldn't sanction the U.S. Open years ago because of this very reason.

Maybe the rules of the UPA have changed.

JAM

 

[gpeezy]

Well myself I'm not sure what the reasoning for the unpaid winners is but it is a shame non the less. I'm guessing the guy was making a move to make some cash by hosting a big tournament and it back fired and busted him. If that was the case I don't believe I would have started writing bad checks but rather talked with the entrants about my horrible screw up. Its a shame we continue to hear how pool isn't working out. Right now IMO www.theactionreport.com is the best thing in pool for pool players and spectators but I'm sure they aren't making a killing if anything. The economy being bad doesn't help a thing. I haven't been out to play in 2 weeks and I was "gonna start back to play". Paying to get to point B then back to A is brutal right now anyway. Pool is support as recreation and too hard to make a living at.

 

[PETARD]

johnny Archer $12000
mika $7500
mike davis $5000
charile bryant $4000
John Schmit $2800
jay helfert $2100


Never saw the $$$, last week I posted a thread that said "Show me the $$$" After 2700 views and 4 pages of guesses, only JAM had it right-unless I missed a post. None of the top finishers in Phoneix last week got paid, Saez cashed his check, Archer told me "Hell I would have done better if I took 9th, instread of winning it".

I made the thread to put Chuck Bobbett on notice that he might draw some attention and not himself any favors by stiffing everyone, well he did.


I sat back this past week and listened to everyone and man this guy has more excuses that anyone ever, he was telling some people that he wired the $$$, then was producing phony bank statments, saying he couldnt FAX things etc. He just cornered himself after a week of lies,

its a shame that the players were robbed,


to be clear Mark known here as bfdlad, had nothing to this. He is 100% STAND UP GUY, SO DONT CONFUS HIM WITH THE OTHER GUY WHO WAS HAVING EVENTS IN THE SAME CITY AT THE SAME TIME.

How does Fatboy fit in? I don't. I had nothig to do with this except making the arrangments for one player to come out play in it and not get paid, he is my friend and 2 other guys on the list as well are friends. I dont like to see people or my friends get robbed. This Chuck guy took the gate $$$, entrance $$$, etc and rat holed as much as he could after paying the lower places. So I sat back for a week watched. listened and sadly realized that Chuck should probably pay his debts, which include my friends, i'm a loyal friend. Otherwise it just makes me sick to see a guy air-barrel a tournment with a $400 entry fee, these guys spend almost a dime to get there for this???? no way can this be let to rest. so I made it public, i'm done with it from here.

The Police dept Check Fraud Unit will be all over this one, they like big press releases and when someone willingfully writes about $30,000 in hot checks in one day to 6 or 7 people they wont waste time. So Chuck stop the bullshit and and the bleeding and find the $$$. Chuck I wont put a google map to your house or the business you own as I feel that wouldnt be right.....yet.

collectionguru@gmail.com

 

[fanthom]

That was supposed to be one of the functions of the UPA. UPA would sanction a tournament if the tournament monies were in escrow. That is what UPA sanctioning is supposed to mean, to assure all UPA member players payment at a UPA-sanctioned event.

The UPA wouldn't sanction the U.S. Open years ago because of this very reason.

Maybe the rules of the UPA have changed.

JAM

That explains why the BCA handed over the player rankings and ratings to USPPA. It's obvious that the UPA needs a lot of oversight. Whatever it is though, I say the players should take matters into their own hands and demand the escrow documentation, or better yet, have the escrow documentation posted or attached to all the tournament signs, posters and fliers. There should also be at least 2 signatories in the escrow as a check and balance so that funds do not miraculously disappear.

 

[JAM]

That explains why the BCA handed over the player rankings and ratings to USPPA. It's obvious that the UPA needs a lot of oversight. Whatever it is though, I say the players should take matters into their own hands and demand the escrow documentation, or better yet, have the escrow documentation posted or attached to all the tournament signs, posters and fliers. There should also be at least 2 signatories in the escrow as a check and balance so that funds do not miraculously disappear.

Good suggestion!

JAM