They never saw the $$$$....

[av84fun]

Jim,

According to my math, you would have half of your 50 players surviving after paying expenses. The other half have to go out and get jobs making it impossible to compete in ten events a year on a tour. In reality the money would split with less than a dozen players taking well over half of the money, probably over 75%, leaving very little for the rest of the field. However, ignoring that, where is even 2.2 million a year plus expenses coming from or your $20,000,000 minimum start up costs? Cut that in half, where is ten million coming from?

I know a wee bit about rodeo having attended hundreds and been on the backside of dozens if not hundreds. My wife was a barrel racer, my son a bullfighter. They had maybe the most exciting eight seconds in sports to offer, something that plays great on TV. They still had to strip rodeo down to just bull riding to get their toes in the door. Now people have enough interest in rodeo that they can show most of a rodeo now and then, in a very compressed version. A big part of the appeal is the danger. How dangerous is a pool tournament?

That is the real issue with pool, we haven't been able to find something the public wants to buy. In most sports, the better a competitor is the more exciting it is to the viewer. In pool, the better the competitor is the more boring it is to the average home viewer. The player shoots an easy shot, the cue ball "happens to roll" so that he has another easy shot. The average banger can and has pocketed most of the balls that they see pocketed by the pro's, these guys are only a little better than them, boring!!

Your tenth place guy makes fifty thousand a year raw gross. $10K expenses is pretty conservative. Another near ten percent more than a wage slave pays goes to self-employment taxes. Your tenth place finisher is scraping by if he has a two family income or is single. How long are you going to keep the competitors around that are below that at an annual average income of less than $14K? In round numbers the fiftieth placed PGA golfer made a million gross last year, the 200th placed one made $112K. Pool isn't golf but that is what it takes to keep a player on the road. Roughly seventy-five percent of the people on your tour need to net at least $30K a year take home for it to have any chance of being sustainable.

Hu

Hu, please note that I didn't say it was GOING to happen...in fact, on that subject, I said "fat chance."

Re: the PBR, I lived in Colorado Springs a few miles from the PRCA world headquarters, owned 3 horses and spent plent of time on working ranches.

My point was not too compare bull riding and pool but to compare the entrepreneurship of those who started the PBR with what COULD happen in pool. Many...in fact, MOST of the rodeo community felt A) they were being disloyal to the PRCA and B) that it would be an utter failure.

Ooops! (-:

Regards,
Jim

 

[ironman]

Its always the same, people hear that someone makes $$$ doing some job and they go , oh hell I'd do that job for alot less, that guy is overpaid!

More power to you Jay, the surest signs of success is when people are envious of your ability to command a respectable salary. The other surest sign of success is getting sued for a huge amt of $ but maybe you dont want that much success

Some players make a litle, but can afford no loss whatsoever.

I just got off the phone with one of the players from Phoenix. He deposited the check in good faith and began paying bills just like the rest of us do. Then, you guessed it boing!!! Bounce bounce.

He has worked his ass off all lyear and done quite well. Now the bounced check puts him at a loss. {no he doesn't gamble or do meth}.

This tornament never should have happened. It should have been cancelled. Maybe there were circumstances, I donn't know, but you have to look at the big picture and make decisions and be well aware of the consequences of those decisions. This isn't very hard to figure out.

 

[JAM]

Some players make a litle, but can afford no loss whatsoever.

I just got off the phone with one of the players from Phoenix. He deposited the check in good faith and began paying bills just like the rest of us do. Then, you guessed it boing!!! Bounce bounce.

He has worked his ass off all lyear and done quite well. Now the bounced check puts him at a loss. {no he doesn't gamble or do meth}.

This tornament never should have happened. It should have been cancelled. Maybe there were circumstances, I donn't know, but you have to look at the big picture and make decisions and be well aware of the consequences of those decisions. This isn't very hard to figure out.

That is awful news. Chuck Bobbit should pay the bounced check fees for sure.

One thing I learned a long time ago is to never deposit a check and then write your own checks on it until you know that deposited check has cleared all the way.

Just today, I learned that I did not have as many funds in my checking account as I thought because my bank was holding an out-of-State check I received for 5 business days. It showed I had the money in the account, but my bank would not clear it. I found this very odd since I have a line of credit to cover anything if a check bounces.

I called the bank this morning, and since this was a business check and a business account, they released the funds, 1 day early from the 5 business days they were planning on holding it.

I feel bad for that player. Damn checks. I'd much rather get paid in cash.

Mike Zuglan's $25,000 Joss Tour pays in cash.

U.S. Open pays some in cash, but if you have a big amount, they write a check. I will never forget the day after the U.S. Open tournament ended, I was at the bank, right down the street from the venue, at 9:00 a.m. trying to cash Keith's check for 10 dimes. Behind me in line was Jose Parica, Joe Salazar (LOL), and a few other players. I have never seen so many pool players awake at 9:00 a.m. as that Monday morning.

Oh, yeah. The checks were good!

JAM

 

[corvette1340]

Some players make a litle, but can afford no loss whatsoever.

I just got off the phone with one of the players from Phoenix. He deposited the check in good faith and began paying bills just like the rest of us do. Then, you guessed it boing!!! Bounce bounce.

He has worked his ass off all lyear and done quite well. Now the bounced check puts him at a loss. {no he doesn't gamble or do meth}.

This tornament never should have happened. It should have been cancelled. Maybe there were circumstances, I donn't know, but you have to look at the big picture and make decisions and be well aware of the consequences of those decisions. This isn't very hard to figure out.

The guy will most likely be charged with writing bad checks and well he should. When someone writes me a check I just deposit it and to be honest I never know if its good or not, lol. I havent balanced a check book in 4-5 years. I have no idea how much is in my checking accounts. The only accounts I really pay attention to are the brokerage ones.

 

[Nine Ball]

That is awful news. Chuck Bobbit should pay the bounced check fees for sure.

One thing I learned a long time ago is to never deposit a check and then write your own checks on it until you know that deposited check has cleared all the way.

Just today, I learned that I did not have as many funds in my checking account as I thought because my bank was holding an out-of-State check I received for 5 business days. It showed I had the money in the account, but my bank would not clear it. I found this very odd since I have a line of credit to cover anything if a check bounces.

I called the bank this morning, and since this was a business check and a business account, they released the funds, 1 day early from the 5 business days they were planning on holding it.

I feel bad for that player. Damn checks. I'd much rather get paid in cash.

Mike Zuglan's $25,000 Joss Tour pays in cash.

U.S. Open pays some in cash, but if you have a big amount, they write a check. I will never forget the day after the U.S. Open tournament ended, I was at the bank, right down the street from the venue, at 9:00 a.m. trying to cash Keith's check for 10 dimes. Behind me in line was Jose Parica, Joe Salazar (LOL), and a few other players. I have never seen so many pool players awake at 9:00 a.m. as that Monday morning.

Oh, yeah. The checks were good!

JAM

Yeah I'm done with it.. Please pay cash..

and if you see a pool player up before 9 am... They have not been to bed yet. or they are about to be late for a match..

 

[JAM]

Yeah I'm done with it.. Please pay cash..

and if you see a pool player up before 9 am... They have not been to bed yet. or they are about to be late for a match..

Ain't it the truth, my friend!

JAM

 

[Nine Ball]

Ain't it the truth, my friend!

JAM

Yessss.... and I would know.. Hell I don't get up until around 3 pm most days..

 

[SCCues]

my check is no good.hopefully chuck can get a good roll and get the money together .either way life will go on .it does suck i spent 1000 getting there come in 5th and get no money.its so typical of the things i see in pool that i just have to laugh.oh well off to the golf course tommorrow.

You have a great attitude John. Life will go on, but it's a shame to have something like this happen.

James

 

[Fatboy]

The guy will most likely be charged with writing bad checks and well he should. When someone writes me a check I just deposit it and to be honest I never know if its good or not, lol. I havent balanced a check book in 4-5 years. I have no idea how much is in my checking accounts. The only accounts I really pay attention to are the brokerage ones.

thats exactly how I am, I dont ever look at any of my account balances, write checks or do shit, i have awalys been like that, its just me being lazy. I have probably beeen robbed more times by more people in my accounting dept. Even before I had much $$$ I was like that, i had my friends girl friend write my checks for my bills etc. I havent written a check in years, just lazy.

 

[BRKNRUN]

thats exactly how I am, I dont ever look at any of my account balances, write checks or do shit, i have awalys been like that, its just me being lazy. I have probably beeen robbed more times by more people in my accounting dept. Even before I had much $$$ I was like that, i had my friends girl friend write my checks for my bills etc. I havent written a check in years, just lazy.

I don't keep a check book, but I do monitor activity online.


FYI....I hardly ever write checks...usually just use a debit card...but My wife writes checks here and there for things like Girl Scout Cookies or something similar...

She wrote a check for $39.00 one time and when I checked online it showed a deduction for $59.00

$20 is not a lot to get all crazy about, but if you have checks rolling through on a much larger scale...$2000 or $20,000 mistake could be costly.

Garanteed the bank never would have caught the $20 mistake had I not actually "viewed" a copy of the actual check online

 

[Fatboy]

I don't keep a check book, but I do monitor activity online.


FYI....I hardly ever write checks...usually just use a debit card...but My wife writes checks here and there for things like Girl Scout Cookies or something similar...

She wrote a check for $39.00 one time and when I checked online it showed a deduction for $59.00

$20 is not a lot to get all crazy about, but if you have checks rolling through on a much larger scale...$2000 or $20,000 mistake could be costly.

Garanteed the bank never would have caught the $20 mistake had I not actually "viewed" a copy of the actual check online

i dont have access to my online stuff, my accounting dept does. i dont know how to use it, i shoukd probably someday, all i do is call my bank and ask the balances sometimes.

 

[BRKNRUN]

i dont have access to my online stuff, my accounting dept does. i dont know how to use it, i shoukd probably someday, all i do is call my bank and ask the balances sometimes.

Brother send me a PM...we need to talk during BCA Vegas..

I will make a deal with you..I will come over and help you get set up through your banks online service...(they pretty much all have them)

Just spot me a 10% cut of whatever you recover from an audit...

Heck...$500,000 in mistakes or devious accountants could net me $50K .... I will do some leg work for that potential......

 

[sixpack]

i dont have access to my online stuff, my accounting dept does. i dont know how to use it, i shoukd probably someday, all i do is call my bank and ask the balances sometimes.

Hey Fatboy,

Check and double check your accounting. My great grandfather owned about 40 acres of what is now Chicago and was screwed out of it by his 'loyal' accountant of 20 years...on his deathbed. Our family lost billions.

Good fences build good neighbors. Make sure you have some good fences in place and keep walking them looking for strays.

~rc

 

[smashmouth]

I have to say my peace here,

shame on the UPA and all those supporting these sham "organizations"

both the UPA and BCA are beyond useless, BCA has been for decades, and UPA has been since it's inception

I'm completely sick of all these American promoters and groups, God help pool in the USA because I certainly won't

 

[ironman]

That is awful news. Chuck Bobbit should pay the bounced check fees for sure.

One thing I learned a long time ago is to never deposit a check and then write your own checks on it until you know that deposited check has cleared all the way.

Just today, I learned that I did not have as many funds in my checking account as I thought because my bank was holding an out-of-State check I received for 5 business days. It showed I had the money in the account, but my bank would not clear it. I found this very odd since I have a line of credit to cover anything if a check bounces.

I called the bank this morning, and since this was a business check and a business account, they released the funds, 1 day early from the 5 business days they were planning on holding it.

I feel bad for that player. Damn checks. I'd much rather get paid in cash.

Mike Zuglan's $25,000 Joss Tour pays in cash.

U.S. Open pays some in cash, but if you have a big amount, they write a check. I will never forget the day after the U.S. Open tournament ended, I was at the bank, right down the street from the venue, at 9:00 a.m. trying to cash Keith's check for 10 dimes. Behind me in line was Jose Parica, Joe Salazar (LOL), and a few other players. I have never seen so many pool players awake at 9:00 a.m. as that Monday morning.

Oh, yeah. The checks were good!

JAM

It seems funny to me that victims are held acountable for assuming innocence.

As the great Tom Horn said," this will be my final word on the matter"!

That was right before they hung him.

 

[ribdoner]

Did I read this was a UPA sanctioned event?

If so, what does that mean?

BOBBIT knew he was short. Going ahead with the event was (insert your own words). I have nothing but contempt for him and he's earned what he'll get.

 

[JAM]

It seems funny to me that victims are held acountable for assuming innocence.

As the great Tom Horn said," this will be my final word on the matter"!

That was right before they hung him.

LOL!

The victims should NOT be held accountable. The players and Jay Helfert have definitely been wronged.

Time will tell if Chuck Bobbit can come up with the money to pay each and every one of them. I hope he does.

It is truly a shame that this happened. I know how expensive it is for players to attend a 4- and 5-day event, i.e., hotel, travel, entry fee, food, tips, transportation, et cetera.

I'll bet Charlie Bryant was livid!

JAM

 

[ironman]

LOL!

The victims should NOT be held accountable. The players and Jay Helfert have definitely been wronged.

Time will tell if Chuck Bobbit can come up with the money to pay each and every one of them. I hope he does.

It is truly a shame that this happened. I know how expensive it is for players to attend a 4- and 5-day event, i.e., hotel, travel, entry fee, food, tips, transportation, et cetera.

I'll bet Charlie Bryant was livid!

JAM

Charlie wasn't livid exactly. More like ready to puke.

 

[Fast Lenny]

You have alot more friends then they do. This is the only way they get attention.

I always like reading your posts.


Like a Bad Dream (nightmare)!

Willy

I agree,when Jennie and Keith walk into a poolroom they are known and people flock to Keith because of his game and Jennie because she is such a nice lady and a pleasure to speak with.People name calling on here is just childish and shouldnt be tolerated by the Mods.

 

[junksecret]

I would even take a course... Jay could hold it for $14,000, the price of college. I would pay it to make 100,000$+ a year.

Jason,

I think what you are missing here is that even if Jay does offer the "course", I don't think the 40 something years of involvement in the game, the 40 something years of relationships with the players and sponsors, the 40 something years of becoming among the most respected figures in a sport filled with disreputable characters, can be taught.

The qualities Jay brings to the table for these events is something you can't buy. I'd say it's a shame that Jay has chosen pool to achieve his level of expertise, in most vocations his level of success would surely command a great deal more money, but it's not a shame because he loves what he does and we get to reap the benefit.

Jay, thanks for a lifetime of involvement in the sport, I look forward to many more years of it.

Joe