*** Thin Ball Aiming System-inside of object ball ***

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hope we can all keep in mind that our discourse expands our knowledge on the matter.

The topic is very interesting to me, as I usually play with the Koreans and they often talk about and use different, specialized strokes. No science, that I am aware of, just because that is how you play the shot.

Now...let's talk bridges:eek::wink:
 

Fox

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Raymond Ceulemans
Medal record
Competitor for Belgium
Men's Three-cushion billiards
UMB World Three-cushion Championship
Gold Neuss 1963 Three-cushion
Gold Oostende 1964 Three-cushion
Gold Hilversum 1965 Three-cushion
Gold Buenos Aires 1966 Three-cushion
Gold Lima 1967 Three-cushion
Gold Düren 1968 Three-cushion
Gold Tokio 1969 Three-cushion
Gold Las Vegas 1970 Three-cushion
Gold Groningen 1971 Three-cushion
Gold Buenos Aires 1972 Three-cushion
Gold Cairo 1973 Three-cushion
Gold La Paz 1975 Three-cushion
Gold Ostend 1976 Three-cushion
Gold Tokio 1977 Three-cushion
Gold Las Vegas 1978 Three-cushion
Gold Lima 1979 Three-cushion
Gold Buenos Aires 1980 Three-cushion
Gold Aix-les-Bains 1983 Three-cushion
Gold Heeswijk-Dinther 1985 Three-cushion
Gold Tokio 1990 Three-cushion
Gold Luxembourg 2001 Three-cushion
Silver Antwerp 1974 Three-cushion
Silver Tokio 1991 Three-cushion
Silver Tokio 1992 Three-cushion
Bronze Krefeld 1984 Three-cushion
Bronze Las Vegas 1986 Three-cushion
Bronze Tokio 1988 Three-cushion
Bronze Tokio 1989 Three-cushion
CEB European Three-cushion Championship
Gold Kaatsheuvel 1962 Three-cushion
Gold Brussels 1963 Three-cushion
Gold Copenhagen 1964 Three-cushion
Gold Vienna 1965 Three-cushion
Gold Lisbon 1966 Three-cushion
Gold Angoulême 1967 Three-cushion
Gold Madrid 1968 Three-cushion
Gold The Hague 1969 Three-cushion
Gold Tournai 1970 Three-cushion
Gold Geel 1971 Three-cushion
Gold Dortmund 1972 Three-cushion
Gold Eeklo 1974 Three-cushion
Gold Rotterdam 1975 Three-cushion
Gold Valencia 1976 Three-cushion
Gold Lausanne 1977 Three-cushion
Gold Copenhagen 1978 Three-cushion
Gold Düren 1979 Three-cushion
Gold Helsingborg 1980 Three-cushion
Gold Vienna 1981 Three-cushion
Gold Porto 1982 Three-cushion
Gold Dunkirk 1983 Three-cushion
Gold Waalwijk 1987 Three-cushion
Gold Cairo 1992 Three-cushion
Silver Vejle 1988 Three-cushion
Bronze Triest 1961 Three-cushion
Bronze Amersfoort 1985 Three-cushion
Bronze Dordrecht 1991 Three-cushion
Ridder Raymond Ceulemans (born 12 July 1937 in Lier, Belgium) is a three-cushion billiards player and possibly the most dominant single figure in any one sport, having won 35 World Championship titles (23 in three-cushion + 12 in other carom

Ceulemans won the European three-cushion championship 23 times and defended it 19 times.
Ceulemans also won 24 World three-cushion championships (21 from the UMB and 3 from the BWA). Additionally he has prevailed in 16 title defenses.
At the age of 64 Ceulemans won his latest UMB world title in Luxembourg where he defeated Marco Zanetti.


MAYBE THIS LIVING LEGEND has been playing the WRONG TECHNIQUE....
ENOUGH>>>
 

zensteve

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gilbert is employing the "authority fallacy/credential fallacy argument.
Although it can be persuasive for some, it can also be dead wrong.

Let me give you an example of using this technique:

Albert Einstein didn't believe black holes existed.

Here are his credentials:

In 1922, Einstein was awarded the 1921 Nobel Prize in Physics,[1] "for his services to Theoretical Physics, and especially for his discovery of the law of the photoelectric effect". This refers to his 1905 paper on the photoelectric effect, "On a Heuristic Viewpoint Concerning the Production and Transformation of Light", which was well supported by the experimental evidence by that time. The presentation speech began by mentioning "his theory of relativity [which had] been the subject of lively debate in philosophical circles [and] also has astrophysical implications which are being rigorously examined at the present time". (Einstein 1923)

It was long reported that, in accord with the divorce settlement,[2] the Nobel Prize money had been deposited in a Swiss bank account for Maric to draw on the interest for herself and their two sons, while she could only use the capital by agreement with Einstein. However, personal correspondence made public in 2006[3] shows that he invested much of it in the United States, and saw much of it wiped out in the Great Depression. However, ultimately he paid Maric more money than he received with the prize.[4]

In 1929, Max Planck presented Einstein with the Max Planck medal of the German Physical Society in Berlin, for extraordinary achievements in theoretical physics.[5]

In 1936, Einstein was awarded the Franklin Institute's Franklin Medal for his extensive work on relativity and the photo-electric effect.[5]

The International Union of Pure and Applied Physics named 2005 the "World Year of Physics" in commemoration of the 100th anniversary of the publication of the annus mirabilis papers.[6]

The Albert Einstein Science Park is located on the hill Telegrafenberg in Potsdam, Germany. The best known building in the park is the Einstein Tower which has a bronze bust of Einstein at the entrance. The Tower is an astrophysical observatory that was built to perform checks of Einstein's theory of General Relativity.[7]

The Albert Einstein Memorial in central Washington, D.C. is a monumental bronze statue depicting Einstein seated with manuscript papers in hand. The statue, commissioned in 1979, is located in a grove of trees at the southwest corner of the grounds of the National Academy of Sciences on Constitution Avenue.

The chemical element 99, einsteinium, was named for him in August 1955, four months after Einstein's death.[8][9] 2001 Einstein is an inner main belt asteroid discovered on 5 March 1973.[10]

In 1999 Time magazine named him the Person of the Century,[11][12] ahead of Mahatma Gandhi and Franklin Roosevelt, among others. In the words of a biographer, "to the scientifically literate and the public at large, Einstein is synonymous with genius".[13] Also in 1999, an opinion poll of 100 leading physicists ranked Einstein the "greatest physicist ever".[14] A Gallup poll recorded him as the fourth most admired person of the 20th century in the U.S.[15]

In 1990, his name was added to the Walhalla temple for "laudable and distinguished Germans",[16] which is located east of Regensburg, in Bavaria, Germany.[17]

The United States Postal Service honored Einstein with a Prominent Americans series (1965–1978) 8¢ postage stamp.

In 2008, Einstein was inducted into the New Jersey Hall of Fame.[18]

Therefore black holes don't exist
 

mr3cushion

Regestered User
Silver Member
Gilbert is employing the "authority fallacy/credential fallacy argument.
Although it can be persuasive for some, it can also be dead wrong.

Let me give you an example of using this technique:

Albert Einstein didn't believe black holes existed.

Here are his credentials:

In 1922, Einstein was awarded the 1921 Nobel Prize in Physics,[1] "for his services to Theoretical Physics, and especially for his discovery of the law of the photoelectric effect". This refers to his 1905 paper on the photoelectric effect, "On a Heuristic Viewpoint Concerning the Production and Transformation of Light", which was well supported by the experimental evidence by that time. The presentation speech began by mentioning "his theory of relativity [which had] been the subject of lively debate in philosophical circles [and] also has astrophysical implications which are being rigorously examined at the present time". (Einstein 1923)

It was long reported that, in accord with the divorce settlement,[2] the Nobel Prize money had been deposited in a Swiss bank account for Maric to draw on the interest for herself and their two sons, while she could only use the capital by agreement with Einstein. However, personal correspondence made public in 2006[3] shows that he invested much of it in the United States, and saw much of it wiped out in the Great Depression. However, ultimately he paid Maric more money than he received with the prize.[4]

In 1929, Max Planck presented Einstein with the Max Planck medal of the German Physical Society in Berlin, for extraordinary achievements in theoretical physics.[5]

In 1936, Einstein was awarded the Franklin Institute's Franklin Medal for his extensive work on relativity and the photo-electric effect.[5]

The International Union of Pure and Applied Physics named 2005 the "World Year of Physics" in commemoration of the 100th anniversary of the publication of the annus mirabilis papers.[6]

The Albert Einstein Science Park is located on the hill Telegrafenberg in Potsdam, Germany. The best known building in the park is the Einstein Tower which has a bronze bust of Einstein at the entrance. The Tower is an astrophysical observatory that was built to perform checks of Einstein's theory of General Relativity.[7]

The Albert Einstein Memorial in central Washington, D.C. is a monumental bronze statue depicting Einstein seated with manuscript papers in hand. The statue, commissioned in 1979, is located in a grove of trees at the southwest corner of the grounds of the National Academy of Sciences on Constitution Avenue.

The chemical element 99, einsteinium, was named for him in August 1955, four months after Einstein's death.[8][9] 2001 Einstein is an inner main belt asteroid discovered on 5 March 1973.[10]

In 1999 Time magazine named him the Person of the Century,[11][12] ahead of Mahatma Gandhi and Franklin Roosevelt, among others. In the words of a biographer, "to the scientifically literate and the public at large, Einstein is synonymous with genius".[13] Also in 1999, an opinion poll of 100 leading physicists ranked Einstein the "greatest physicist ever".[14] A Gallup poll recorded him as the fourth most admired person of the 20th century in the U.S.[15]

In 1990, his name was added to the Walhalla temple for "laudable and distinguished Germans",[16] which is located east of Regensburg, in Bavaria, Germany.[17]

The United States Postal Service honored Einstein with a Prominent Americans series (1965–1978) 8¢ postage stamp.

In 2008, Einstein was inducted into the New Jersey Hall of Fame.[18]

Therefore black holes don't exist

The GREATEST scientic mind of our time, (Albert Einstein), played billiards, COULDN'T average 4.00, with the help of a sliderule!!!!!!!!!!!!! :confused::confused::confused:

Go figure!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
 
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Fox

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Steven,

I am not applying nothing ,


IF YOU ARE PLAYER THAT HAS A GREAT NATURAL ABILITY and average over one every game and dosen't use no technique ,I might understand the debate between the judges !
But if you can't make a shot and be effective on the table , THEORIES means nothing,



Our problem IN THE STATE, we don't have a ROLL MODEL FOR BILLIARD. We are selfish and we think we know 2 much, We are WAY BEHIND the train... the train that started in Europe , visit Turkey and landed in KOREA.

Readers, you might know , like or don't like Ceulemans or his achievement,
I urge to read his book, Read it and take it to the table and try it with the correct technique.You'll be the judge .but give it a try !


IF YOU ARE TRYING TO LEARN THE GAME FROM A TOPIC, Please you won't,... there is no sequence for it , I believe Bill try to share a technique that nobody shared before ,,,,,actually nobody is sharing nothing ! we all are selfish including me ....
 

SlickRick_PCS

Pool, Snooker, Carom
Silver Member
we all are selfish including me ....

Then let's change this, then...

Having "Carom Billiards" in these forums as a subcategory was the best start (aside from the prior "Deno Andrews and Carom Billiards" title wasn't cutting it). To this day, that change was the best thing that ever happen.

Spread the knowledge to another novice.

Creating books (as Bill Smith is doing) to spread to others is another good start.

Start from the small and work up (yea, I am preaching this, but small games first then work up to three-cushion billiards). Nobody starts from the top. Just observe the Belgium powerhouses...

Lastly, representation and unification. This one means a whole lot, now at days. There will be differences in what one has to another. But, if there can be a way to set aside this and work on a common goal, then it would create influences from within and from without.

“A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.”
-- Winston Churchill
 

Fox

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
here it is


2012-10-13 09.54.11.jpg

2012-10-13 09.55.54.jpg

2012-10-13 09.55.13.jpg
 

dan bennicas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
fun reading this thread

It seems odd to me that no one has mentioned the barometric pressure reading while trying to thin hit an object ball a certain way or the moons gravitational pull on the earth or weather the tide is coming or going or if the table is heated enough or the balls were only heated on one side or what the odds might be if the felt is new or whether the balls have measels or not or how much cheese is left on your bridge hand from that cheesburger you just devoured. ---------- I appreciate all the information going back and forth with so much knowledge and at one point I thought I was beginning to understand the different points of view but I'm not sure at this point. I went to the table and tried many of the suggestions offered and I had some success. My problem is that my brain is overflowing with information to the point that it makes it difficult for me remember all that. [ OLD AGE] I sometimes have trouble remembering to chalk up before I attempt a thin hit shot or any shot for that matter. Does that only happen to me? Thanks for all the enjoyable reading!
"SHOOT STRAIGHT WITH ANGLES"
Dan Bennicas
 

sightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gilbert,

Mr. 100 is one of the grestest, respectable billiard players of all time.

All billiard books are written expression of the sport, unlike mathemathics where 2+2=4. Therefore, all billiard books are debatable, questionable, arguable to the extent of their contents.
 

mr3cushion

Regestered User
Silver Member
Gilbert,

Mr. 100 is one of the grestest, respectable billiard players of all time.

All billiard books are written expression of the sport, unlike mathemathics where 2+2=4. Therefore, all billiard books are debatable, questionable, arguable to the extent of their contents.

Lets at least have them argued by QUALIFIED billiard players!!!!!!!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
 

SlickRick_PCS

Pool, Snooker, Carom
Silver Member
Gilbert,

Mr. 100 is one of the grestest, respectable billiard players of all time.

All billiard books are written expression of the sport, unlike mathemathics where 2+2=4. Therefore, all billiard books are debatable, questionable, arguable to the extent of their contents.

That was not a wise thing to say... :shakehead:
 

Fox

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gilbert,

Mr. 100 is one of the grestest, respectable billiard players of all time.

All billiard books are written expression of the sport, unlike mathemathics where 2+2=4. Therefore, all billiard books are debatable, questionable, arguable to the extent of their contents.


Sightline,

Have you worked out the content of the book?
If you or somebody else studied the technology of this book or any other book, Caudron, Bitalis ,Effren,Eddie Robin,Bill smith,....and things didn't work out for you! We can have a discussion about it.
But without studying I can't have a discussion ....

We are talking about BIG MOVE, different concept.
One concept of one stroke used in pool and couple of players used it in 3cushion and didn't succeed...

other concept mastered in 3 cushion and drove 45000 players in Europe to average over 1, 10000 players in Turkey , and over 100000 in korea.

How you can beat that?, Between all the players you watch online, Have you ever seen a player using one Stroke? ,,,,I haven't myself.


That's what I am trying to say.

3 cushion used to be the best game in the USA,(by hope,Cocran,....)
and sang lee....(after) not anymore.

It's going backward, It annoyed me that the average age player in the states is over 50 years old. & we still arguing and wasting time ......
SAD...
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... we still arguing and wasting time ...
I thought we were discussing what may be valuable techniques. Or they may be, as one author might call them, voodoo billiards. I think they merit discussion.
 

zensteve

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob is spot on. No one is arguing(that I know of) that knowledge,experience,expertise, etc has no value. Of course it has value. That is why I respect your opinion Gilbert.

But...when push comes to shove I want empirical evidence not just a book or an "experts" valued opinion.

If I may quote the Dalai Lama when asked if science were to prove some of his beliefs to be wrong...what would he do?

He said he would stop believing and accept science.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... if science were to prove ...
Since I pick nits, I'll pick one here. The current philosophy of science is that it can prove nothing. The way science works is that you have a loop with observation as an essential part:

1. observe what happens
2. make a theory that explains the observations
3. make predictions based on that theory
4. make more observations based on the predictions or just general measurements
5. see if the new observations fit the theory
6. if the observations fit, go back to 3 or 4; if the observations do not fit the theory, go back to 2.

The process is never finished and nothing is ever proven. The best you can do is to develop a set of theories that matches all of the observations made so far.

Some players have a theory that prolonging tip-ball contact is a good thing and a particular stroke might do that. The observation is that changing your stroke is not effective in prolonging tip-ball contact. The theory that follows from the observations also says that prolonging tip-ball contact is actually detrimental to getting more spin on the cue ball.

As for the "great players are always right" philosophy, it helps to know what great players in the past have held to be true. Some have said that the cue ball cannot transfer side spin to the object ball. Anyone who has played balkline well knows this "expert truth" is pitiful bogus trash. One celebrated expert recommended a 16-millimeter tip:

vignaux 001.jpg

I think anyone these days who used a 16-mm tip would get a great deal of comment. The quote does make me wonder about the conditions that might have caused M. V to settle on such a tip.
 

mbvl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gilbert,

I saw your post on Kozoom wrt Caudron's performance on Friday in the French league. Caudron scored 50 points in 18 innings: 5-1-6-0-2-10-0-3-0-8-2-1-1-1-1-5-2-2.

Could you point out some specific shots for which Frederic used something other than a normal stroke?
 

zensteve

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I may pick the nit picker. By the by, I do agree with what you said...but...words do mean something. The word "theory" in science and the word "theory" in general parlance may be diametric. As does "proof" and "evidence" and a buffet of many words.

One of the problems with science selling to the general public may be word disconnects. Science needs to do a better PR job.

In the immortal words of someone much more communicative than I...."It depends what you mean by the word "is" is.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... By the by, I do agree with what you said...but...words do mean something. The word "theory" in science and the word "theory" in general parlance may be diametric. As does "proof" and "evidence" and a buffet of many words. ...
Yes, that's true. The "scientific" blurbs I find annoying lately are the studies about food. Too often they are stated as "proven theories" (technically an oxymoron) rather than "links moderately well supported by preliminary studies." Except, of course, for the studies showing that red wine and chocolate are good for your heart.
 
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