How did Kimura make this shot?
http://www.vimeo.com/22273504
Is there some video trickery involved?
Ed
http://www.vimeo.com/22273504
Is there some video trickery involved?
Ed
This Looks Impossible
- Thread starter Ed Wiggins
- Start date
Considering that a piece of note pad paper is approx 4 thousandths of an inch, that might leave one, maybe two thousandths clearance on either side of the object balls and rail to travel down.
That would be a little larger than the width of a human hair.
Seems pretty impossible doesn't it?
That would be a little larger than the width of a human hair.
Seems pretty impossible doesn't it?
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Doesn't Sayginer have a shot similar to this on a billiard table? I wouldn't be surprised at him doing it, or a number of the other 3C guys. Or the guy who posts here sometimes (whose name I've suddenly lost) who makes the astounding masse shots.
Looks to me like the heavy spin is continually pulling the ball into the cushion as it comes back toward the pocket.
Looks to me like the heavy spin is continually pulling the ball into the cushion as it comes back toward the pocket.
3C version
In the 3C version, the cueball caroms off every ball in the row. That is the intention.
I would like to see a video of someone else performing Kimura's shot.
Ed
In the 3C version, the cueball caroms off every ball in the row. That is the intention.
I would like to see a video of someone else performing Kimura's shot.
Ed
Looks like the balls are spaced apart a little so I don't think they are glued together. I think he's very slightly compressing the rail if at all with the initial hit on the first ball and then the ball is just hugging the rail with spin until the end of the shot utilizing that very small space that the ball can fit under the edge of the rail the whole way. I also think the way he is angling the paper he's using makes it look more impossible then the shot itself really is. It's definitely a great precision masse. I wonder how many takes he did to get this one perfect like this. After watching him in person I'm sure it wasn't very many if more than a couple 
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Looks like the balls are spaced apart a little so I don't think they are glued together. I think he's very slightly compressing the rail if at all with the initial hit on the first ball and then the ball is just hugging the rail with spin until the end of the shot utilizing that very small space that the ball can fit under the edge of the rail the whole way. I also think the way he is angling the paper he's using makes it look more impossible then the shot itself really is. It's definitely a great precision masse. I wonder how many takes he did to get this one perfect like this. After watching him in person I'm sure it wasn't very many if more than a couple
I agree, if you watch the english he is using is left hand, after the CB hits that first ball out of the way the CB is trying to eat it's way into the rail and the overspin is taking right down the line.
Mickey Mouse could make this shot ... but, ya know, Mickey don't play anymore. :grin:
You must be thinking of Florian "Venom" Kohler.
Who is the nuts in trickshots today Imo.
Actually I don't think there is any fake things involved in the shot('course i might be wrong) but with this masse it's totally a possible thing, hard of course but it already happened to me on a shorter distance ...
I think there was no trickery. I think the cue ball bounces a few times on the cushion before starting down the line, and each bounce is less and less off the cushion. He also got lucky to have the cue ball almost on the cushion (and not moving much away or into the cushion) at the start of the shot and got some help from the ball that moved out from the line.
Sayginer's 11-cushion masse shot that is mentioned above uses a similar technique.
If that is an index card it may be like .008 think giving him plenty of room. He also cues teh ball on the rail side making it hug the rail tightly as it moves along. It is likely he misses the shot a lot but the video is one of the successes.
i had the CB commming into the rail at a 45 degree angle go under a ball that was real close to the rail recently, the compression of the rail and the angle of the entrance/exit of the CB allowed it to go between the cushion and OB. I'd guess the OB was 2 1/8" off the rail the CB is 2 1/4" in diameter so I squeezed 1/8" of cushion and the OB never moved. It looked real cool. It took no skill-infact it was a accident.
the reason I mention that shot is the CB just bounced under the OB by compressing the rail, there was nothing to it layed natural. My piont is the cb bounces when it hits the rail, I have seen masse shots a million times that have a ton of spin on them and they bobble down the rail, the spin keeps the CB moving into the rail, the rubber in the rail pushes it away like my shot, then the spin pushes it back into the rail. All billiard players use this principal to make points when they play. Its part of the game.
What Must have happened in that video in the OP is he had just the right amount of spin that the CB sucked into the rail-but not to much to cause the CB to bounce out. Mike Massey shoots the "Machine Gun" Shot which is the same shot but the CB clicks off each OB bounces to the rail and out to the next OB in line creating a series of clicks-hence the name machine gun shot.
I dont think this shot is a gaff of video editing, but i would like to know how its done. If I dont see a answere i'll ask mike next time i see him, should be soon. i want to know
the reason I mention that shot is the CB just bounced under the OB by compressing the rail, there was nothing to it layed natural. My piont is the cb bounces when it hits the rail, I have seen masse shots a million times that have a ton of spin on them and they bobble down the rail, the spin keeps the CB moving into the rail, the rubber in the rail pushes it away like my shot, then the spin pushes it back into the rail. All billiard players use this principal to make points when they play. Its part of the game.
What Must have happened in that video in the OP is he had just the right amount of spin that the CB sucked into the rail-but not to much to cause the CB to bounce out. Mike Massey shoots the "Machine Gun" Shot which is the same shot but the CB clicks off each OB bounces to the rail and out to the next OB in line creating a series of clicks-hence the name machine gun shot.
I dont think this shot is a gaff of video editing, but i would like to know how its done. If I dont see a answere i'll ask mike next time i see him, should be soon. i want to know
isnt it just amazing how far these guys are pushing the envelope these days in billiards? with the faster cloth, heated tables, just over all better equipment I have heard of guys averaging 3 in tournament play, 1.5 as I recall 25 years ago was great(it still is) but to my recollection the averages these guys have these days are getting higher and higher. I wish Sang Lee was alive to be part of this, what a great man we lost.
hope our well Bob,
best regards
eric
I think you logic is right on the money Eric. Anyone who has shot lots of masse knows this happens. To much rail hug and this shot won't work. In this case a tiny bit of bottom holds the cushion and all side takes it quickly across the end rail. I think its a legit shot but a bit testy.
You remember the masse that Mosconi shot? Make a ball in each corner then the c/b hugs the long rail to make a ball in the corner pocket 9 feet away. An example of two much rail hug is the c/b can't make it past the side pocket. It goes right in the side in spite of the speed it travels down the rail. I've had it happen and I saw it happen to Mosconi as well. Good call.
Rod