thoughts on IPT final on tv today. . . . .

[Timberly]

The production values are excellent. In my opinion, ESPN's lighting is annoying. It's almost yellow. The darker shades of the IPT broadcasts is refreshing.

- Steve

You found the words that I couldn't to describe the production. I very much enjoyed the darker shades and lighting style.

The commentating was definitely atrocious and hopefully this is something they will look into improving for the next tourney. But.... for those out there that might've had a problem with the overall coverage and production, I'll pose this challenge to you.... Watch the UPA finals from Vegas that was televised a month or so ago and then watch one of the IPT programs. Honestly, I doubt you'll need to bother watching the IPT program afterwards to fully appreciate it after watching 5 min of the UPA telecast that was done on ESPN.

 

[derekdisco]

I think they shoulda just let mike do his own commentary after the match. Then it could be renamed the IET, international excuse tour

 

[cueandcushion]

As shown Efren is the real God of Billiards.

Exactly!

I have never seen Mike so silent......Thank you Efren.

 

[laser2507]

Why does Sigel keep saying 8ball requires more skill than 9ball, and that 9ball is only a game of luck.

9ball IMO requires skill and high shotmaking ability.

an 8ball runout is usually easier.

 

[Johnnyt]

Why does Sigel keep saying 8ball requires more skill than 9ball, and that 9ball is only a game of luck.

9ball IMO requires skill and high shotmaking ability.

an 8ball runout is usually easier.

Over the years I've played about equal amounts of 8-ball and 9-ball. 90% of the 8-ball was played on bar boxes and 90% of the 9-ball was played on 9 foot tables. I know I've run out in 8-ball probably twice as many times or more than I have in 9-ball. I know I'm comparing bar box to nine foot here, but still.

At the pro level I think there both easy. However I would have to vote that 9-ball is the harder game. Johnnyt

 

[satman]

Harder?????

Over the years I've played about equal amounts of 8-ball and 9-ball. 90% of the 8-ball was played on bar boxes and 90% of the 9-ball was played on 9 foot tables. I know I've run out in 8-ball probably twice as many times or more than I have in 9-ball. I know I'm comparing bar box to nine foot here, but still.

At the pro level I think there both easy. However I would have to vote that 9-ball is the harder game. Johnnyt

Both games have their own characteristics that involve different skills. If you watch some of the 9-ball players trying to run out playing 8-ball, even with all the balls spread wide open, a lot of them just don't quite get there. They don't have that easy safety of shooting the 6 to the other end of the table and snookering their opponent. I have only seen a handful of the type of safety's you will see from the Master 8-ball players in Vegas. You'll see a lot of the different types of safety's in the next tournament where it is not primarily made up of 9-ball players.
I'm not saying anything bad about any of the players. It's just 2 different games. There are hard points to both games, but in 8-ball, once you commit to the runout, you're probably in trouble if you fall short. Having to work around all the opponents balls is another factor. There's no early combo on the 9 to win. They're both tough games when you're playing against that caliber of player. They just mainly want the public to think it's a better test for the best. And it must be a harder game, Look what happened in the finals. Sam

 

[chefjeff]

LJJ's comments on how she hates to hit slow shots really took me back and made me think that some of these pros don't yet understand 8-ball very well. Maybe too much 9-ball??

Anyone know of the viewers' numbers yet? That's really the only "opinion" that counts.

Jeff Livingston

 

[1 Pocket Ghost]

Agreed

I've read this whole thread to this point. And did anyone besides me notice the rule violation on Mikes turn at the table? It happened more than once. Did anyone see Earl on one of the earlier shows get in trouble for making comments to his opponent? I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to speak to your opponent or make comments about them. Mike did that a lot. As far as the commentating, The best commentators in pool, were sitting in the stands watching. LJJ does not belong in the booth. As much as I dislike Mike, he did a fair job of commentating as far as describing what needed to be done by the players. Except for him talking about how great he was. I said it before," he is still a great player, but nowhere near the speed he was in the 80"s. His whining is just rediculous, to say the least. And his overall attitude, SUCKS." Have a great day, Sam

Sam, I agree with all that you said.......Ghost

 

[Jersey]

The Mouth...

Mike got exactly what He deserved, (and what I knew He would get), a good A** Whoppin'. He talked sooo much trash all through the tournament it was embarassing. He dominated, true when He played, (I couldn't beat him), but that was 15+yrs ago...it does not give him license to talk all the SH** He talked, especially about the Ladies...Bata, Jango or Manolo anyone of them would have kicked his butt! Efren wasn't even challenged, he missed a few easy shots because he was bored...it easily could, and should have been 8-0, 8-0.

Watch out for Marvelous Marlon Manolo...WOW!

oh, and for KT, get some 'Real' commentators on there please!

 

[Buckster_uk]

I couldn't stand Sigel's attitude towards the match, I expect that he might of had to put on a show for the production, but even so, you do not talk to your opponent like that during the match.

Commentary was horrible to listen to, I agree that you do not expect in-depth strategical analysis like Accu Stats, but please, stop being so pro Sigel!

Kevin Trudeau couldn't stop saying how unlucky Sigel was getting with balls etc, I was hoping all through the match that he would actually give some respect to Efren, didn't happen.



The one thing good to come of it is now the IPT will not be all about Sigel, finally we can watch some serious pool with the current best players in the World.

 

[Johnnyt]

I have a hunch that KT is distancing himself from Mike now. By next year it will be Mike who? Johnnyt

 

[rackmsuckr]

I don't know Mike S. very well, but I do know we wouldn't have anything to watch if it wasn't for him and his belief that pool deserved something bigger and better than what we had before.

I know he was encouraged to talk smack, but when he was finally put to the test, he choked. He REALLY wanted to win and kept short-circuiting. I felt bad for him. Been there, done that. Sometimes, you want something so badly, that all you do is fumble.

He has talked himself up to Kevin and this was the proof of the pudding to KT. He wanted to do well for the money, for himself, and for KT's approval.

Even if you don't like MS personally, I think people wanted to see each player playing their game. I don't mind getting pounded, IF I played as well as I thought I could have, and I think Mike was humiliated because he did not bring anything near his best game to the table.

He did practice. In fact, he ran an 8 pack the day before! He was loose in practice and then had stage fright or something when it was showtime.

I have never seen anyone come out so stiff to play a game of pool. It was evident live....I even commented to my husband how awkward MS looked. I think for all that has happened, MS got his comeuppance there, on TV. I think he will do better and settle down in the next event.

I didn't catch my favorite remark that MS said, which was, "How is my GLI looking?"

Commentators - yes, they could be better. I really doubt you would find anyone that could please all of us. If it wasn't pronunciation, it would be tactical, or something said while rooting for the underdog.

KT HAS to explain every time, what rules are being played, because every show is new, with some new viewers every week. LJJ did ok. She wasn't brilliant, but then she may not have realized what patterns anyone was going to play. And I think rooting for KT's horse while standing next to him, may have been an unconscious mistake. Or not. If Efren was down, she may have done the exact same thing, which is root for the underdog. The thing is, Efren didn't need any help or encouragement!

The other commentator is not supposed to know anything so he can ask questions and make the pros appear knowledgable.

I think the IPT has done a fantastic job on the production. The lighting, etc. is just great. I think there was something like 168 matches that needed to be edited down, so a lot went on behind the scenes before it ever got on the screen.

If we all had our own production companies and pool tours, we could pour all our knowledge, talent and resources into it and a lot of people in the forums would still find some fault with it. That is human nature.

I love that the IPT is generating a lot of discussion all over the pool world.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

Commentators - yes, they could be better. I really doubt you would find anyone that could please all of us. If it wasn't pronunciation, it would be tactical, or something said while rooting for the underdog.

tap tap tap. My thoughts precisely. When it comes down to it why should you tune in for the commentary anyway.

 

[onepocketchump]

I couldn't stand Sigel's attitude towards the match, I expect that he might of had to put on a show for the production, but even so, you do not talk to your opponent like that during the match.

Commentary was horrible to listen to, I agree that you do not expect in-depth strategical analysis like Accu Stats, but please, stop being so pro Sigel!

Kevin Trudeau couldn't stop saying how unlucky Sigel was getting with balls etc, I was hoping all through the match that he would actually give some respect to Efren, didn't happen.



The one thing good to come of it is now the IPT will not be all about Sigel, finally we can watch some serious pool with the current best players in the World.

I have watched the match three times now and I don't think that they were very pro-Sigel. I think that Loree explained quite rightly that Sigel needed something to get him started and build his confidence. I think she did root for balls to go in but it was because he became the underdog very quickly. Kevin was making comments that just stuck to the script of Mike having been the best. KT did comment several times that half the world thinks Efren is the best and the other half thinks it's Sigel. I think that was liberal poetic license.

I think they did a good job of presenting the game. Loree needs to work on her commentary if she is to continue doing it. Not because she isn't knowledgeable, but because she was off-beat and not ready for dialog a lot of the time.

I think the King of the Hill idea is horrible. If anything, put the King of the Hill into the last group and let him battle it out so that he gets as much play as the other guy. This way it doesn't come down to one guy with everything to lose and the other guy with everything to gain and a lopsided match because one guy is cold and the other guy isn't.

Every player knows that the player coming out of the loser's bracket has a slight to moderate edge over the player sitting on top of the winner's bracket because the guy from the loser's side is warmed up and loose.

John

 

[Rich93]

Just Like Ali

I know he was encouraged to talk smack, but when he was finally put to the test, he choked. He REALLY wanted to win and kept short-circuiting. I felt bad for him. Been there, done that. Sometimes, you want something so badly, that all you do is fumble.

I agree. Those of you old enough to remember when Muhammad Ali was Cassius Clay will know that he wrote the book on using "I am the greatest" talk to pump up a match. When he was preparing for his first fight with Sonny Liston, the author Tom Wolfe was following him around for an article. After yelling to his fans one more time how he was going to whup "that ugly old man", Ali turned to Wolfe and said quietly "Man, you know one thing? If I get whipped, they're gonna run me outa the country. You know that?"

That's how I see Mike Sigel's mental state before his match with Efren. He put on the "greatest" show as requested by KT, but that just put more pressure on him to win and the pressure caused him to choke. Sure, he has a big ego, as did Ali, but in both cases the "greatest" talk was an act to create more interest in the contest. Surely, the pressure on him to win would have been less if he had been allowed to go into the match without having to live up to his "greatest" talk.

Now, I think the best man won but I feel sorry for Mike. It's hard to come back. When Mosconi tried to come back and entered a straight pool tournament 10 years after his retirement, he lost too (to Joe Balsis), though he did come in second in a legitimate round robin.

Oh, for you youngsters, Ali didn't choke and beat Liston soundly, but then boxing is not quite as choke-prone as pool.
Rich

 

[ShootingArts]

I agree

I agree with you. It is a bit painful to watch someone come to the table and just be out of sync and get slaughtered like that. I still think that Efren stalled a bit early in the second set but regardless Mike was never a real part of the show. The pressure of the situation and his own expectations just overloaded his circuits at the critical time. Hard to call his first set anything but a meltdown.

I think almost everyone who has watched the entire series wanted to see Mike beat, the informed and the uninformed. However seeing that Efren in stroke can slaughter Mike S out of stroke was a bit of a disappointment. We all knew that. I think even before the match was played most of us would have given odds that Efren would win but it would have been nicer had it been a match. Maybe next time!

Hu

I don't know Mike S. very well, but I do know we wouldn't have anything to watch if it wasn't for him and his belief that pool deserved something bigger and better than what we had before.

I know he was encouraged to talk smack, but when he was finally put to the test, he choked. He REALLY wanted to win and kept short-circuiting. I felt bad for him. Been there, done that. Sometimes, you want something so badly, that all you do is fumble.

He has talked himself up to Kevin and this was the proof of the pudding to KT. He wanted to do well for the money, for himself, and for KT's approval.

Even if you don't like MS personally, I think people wanted to see each player playing their game. I don't mind getting pounded, IF I played as well as I thought I could have, and I think Mike was humiliated because he did not bring anything near his best game to the table.

He did practice. In fact, he ran an 8 pack the day before! He was loose in practice and then had stage fright or something when it was showtime.

I have never seen anyone come out so stiff to play a game of pool. It was evident live....I even commented to my husband how awkward MS looked. I think for all that has happened, MS got his comeuppance there, on TV. I think he will do better and settle down in the next event.

I didn't catch my favorite remark that MS said, which was, "How is my GLI looking?"

 

[TheConArtist]

well i have to give it to him to get up and walk over to shake Efren's hand after the skunk 8-0 in the first set his expression on his face when walking back to his chair Priceless.

 

[JG-in-KY]

I don't know Mike S. very well, but I do know we wouldn't have anything to watch if it wasn't for him and his belief that pool deserved something bigger and better than what we had before...

That was a very sensible, well thought out post - and right on the money IMHO!

 

[EasyMoney]

The arguement that he folded under the pressure to live up to all his talk does not hold water, because most of the commentary was done post-final. Unless we are talking about the smack talking prior to the final which only a handful of people would have been privy to. HE CHOKED SO BAD THAT HE WASN"T EVEN STAYING DOWN ON HIS CRITICAL SHOTS. For what reason I'm not sure, probably because he had witnessed all week that he was out of his league against today's champions.

 

[gromulan]

I saw the IPT on OLN for the 1st time this wkend.... My thoughts on it are pretty simple... I did like the "scenery"... the set up of the arena was very nice.

I'm not going to pick it apart but I will say that they need to get new commentators. Mike, Loree, and whoever else was in the booth...they need to be replaced. It was just bad.

I think Mike calling Efren, Efrem is just a way for Mike to blatantly disrespect Efren. He knew the odds were in favor of Efren reaching the finals and I think he knew that he didn't stand a chance. I believe he started calling him Efrem early on to try to pysch himself up and make him feel better about himself by disrespecting Efren. I could be wrong on this but I doubt it... that's just the kind of ass Mike is.

I was completely turned off by two things with Loree in the booth... 1st & foremost is how vocal she was about begging the balls in Mike's favor. The 2nd part that I didn't care for is that she did a horrible job in explaining why shots were shot the way they were (whoever else was there would ask her & she simply didn't know & floundered for an answer) nor was she able to see the pattern play & explain what shot the players were going to make next when the other person questioned her.

That's my take on my 1st time ever seeing it.

Timberly is right as always, but I'll go a step farther and say that it was just plain horrible all the way around. I hope that not a single 'casual viewer' tuned in because nothing could turn a newcomer off televised pool quicker than this crap. The 'Miracle Knife' informercial on channel 13 was better.