Tight Tables

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I hear a lot of players comment on how hard the new Diamonds and other tables that have been tightened are to play. Most of them about that how you can't hit the long rail with the OB 6" or more before the corner pocket and make it, you can't shoot hard unless you hit center pocket, and longshots become much harder, are all true.

What I don't hear is that it's a very big problem to get position by cheating the pocket on them. There ain't much pocket there to cheat and if you have to shoot hard with English to can just as easily as not, miss the shot. I guess there better for the pros, but I question if they don't drive new players away from the game. I think if I still had a room I'd put the pocket size on the tables. This way new players to the game would know the differece the the tables pocket sizes and work their way up to the tight tables. Johnnyt
 
I think in years past a lot of poolrooms altered the pocket openings and have even chamfered off the edge of the slate in the pockets. They have done this to many old Brunswick tables in the area I live. I think this was done to encourge bangers and recreational players to continue to play as it was now much easier to pocket balls. In my opinion there have been lots of great tables ruined with this poolroom mindset. At the same time I can understand the poolroom owners logic behind the alteration of the tables in order to keep customers coming back to play. For seriuos players it is now hard to find the tougher table to play on. The club I belong to still has non-altered tough playing Brunswick Gold Crowns and for that I am so happy.

Kevin
 
I have a Kim Steel in my basement and if you dust a rail, the ball ain't going in. It certainly makes me play better when I go out to a pool room and see those grand canyon sized pockets.

I asked the guy that installed my table if he could make the pockets bigger, but he talked me out of it. They are making me better, but not allowing me to get any really good runs.
 
Ah yes, the beauty of how to make everyone happy. I have played on them all. Bar tables, open pockets, double, triple, quad shimmed. Diamonds and Brunswicks. You are very correct about lesser skilled players hating doubles and triples. I used to run tournaments in a room with open, double and triple shimmed brunswicks. The doubles and triples are in the "players" area. Anyone not in the pool hall culture would get real weak on the tight tables and the good players would get better. I think you need to have a mix of tables for your target customer. This just makes large tournaments difficult to run fairly. The owner has the room sectioned out. Gandys for casual players, open brunswick for players, and a Players area with 4 doubles and 2 triples.

The Diamond tables are geared to skilled players. They play fast, true, and tight. I know a room with half brunswicks half diamonds. All the handicap tournaments are run on the brunswicks unless the players request a diamond. I won the tournament and only 1 player wanted to play on a diamond and this was because he was getting the wild 6-out and the breaks.

Pool tables are sometimes like golf courses. The hardest most beautifully kept course will sometimes run second fiddle to a open, easy course depending on your players. Why? Because the avg hack can shoot 88 at the open course and will post a radio station (106, 107) at the country club.

Tables really depend on the types of players your have and the types of players you want.
 
I wonder why you never hear dart players complain of a tight/long bullseye or a bowler complain about the size/spacing/distance of the pins? Those are two games where the pro's seem to play under the same conditions as the novice.

Golf, like pool, seems to have an underlying goal of increasing the difficulty of the conditions as the skill level rises. The course gets longer, the rough gets deeper, & the holes get placed in treacherous spots. The table gets tighter...and...well, that's about it. You might change the cloth, but no one bothers. Maybe you can say the table gets bigger since so many amateurs play on barboxes where pro's play on 9'ers.

As golfers and pool players get better, they want to punish themselves by playing on tougher equipment. Is that to say pool players and golfers (more so) are self-loathing where dart throwers and bowlers are just out for a good time?
 
I'm not a big fan of really, really tight pockets that take away what I deem to be necessary shots, but I'll take a slightly-too-tight pocket over a slightly-too-loose one any day. Games like 9-ball and 8-ball are already so forgiving with regard to position play that throwing 5" pockets into the mix creates a situation where you are seldom punished for giving yourself a bad angle. Pockets that will accept balls hit at mach 4 from every angle don't, IMO, put proper emphasis on getting on the correct side of the ball; they lead players to believe that pounding the cueball around the table and juicing it up on every shot is fine as long as you're getting out. I prefer equipment that punishes this type of play, and encourages players to run out in a controlled and thoughtful manner.

Aaron
 
I had a 9FT Gandy big G and now I currently own a 9FT Diamond.I like the diamond alot better.
I myself would rather play on a tight table because it makes me concentrate more and I don`t want my opponent hitting the rail a diamond away from the pocket and still making the ball.
I have played some guys that run out well on a big pocket table but on a diamond they can`t because they are used to hitting near the pocket and it still goes.
If I`m gambling I like a diamond.I want the person I`m playing to make a good shot to make the ball,not dog it and get away with it.
I have lost sets because of hanging a ball on a diamond but thats my own fault for not hitting it good.I shouldn`t be rewarded for dogging it.
 
The games played on a pool table are all shot making games. Having a table really tight can take that away. I think we need a min standard, say diamond cut, and don't change it. Have a league cut, don't change it. Every where you go, you play on a league cut, say 4 3/4, or a pro cut 4 1/4. I also think the pockets should be cut straight, ie. mouth 4 1/4 and back 4 1/4. If you make the pocket smaller adjust the cut so the ball with go down the rail.

I watched some 14.1 videos posted here by members, I can tell you their run would have ended much sooner on my table. Mine is too tight for match play, but great to practice on.
 
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It all depends on what you want out of your table.

Tight pockets force you to play proper position.

Tight pockets force you to concentrate harder on each and every shot.

Tight pockets can be cheated (albeit a bit less :) )

Tight pockets are not for beginners.

Tight pockets make larger pockets seem like buckets.

Tight pockets can be frustrating as hell!!!

Triple C makes playing on my table look like child's play.
 
my thinking is the golf hole is the same size as it was 100 years ago,Luther Lassiter believed in practicing and playing with loose pockets in order to build confidence and stroke. most of the great pool of the past was on pockets with 5 inch openings(gold crown one)

i don't like to play on these newer tight pockets,and all i play is one pocket.Sure its possible for the top 50 players in the world to play almost as good on the sub standard,but not the average guy.

Did the guys that are now complaining about lack of action ever consider that the average guy doesn't enjoy playing pool on snooker tables. and not just the average guy,i heard ronnie allen voice the same concern.

too tight takes the fun out of the game,changes the nature of the game and reduces action other than that they are great
 
mosconiac said:
I wonder why you never hear dart players complain of a tight/long bullseye or a bowler complain about the size/spacing/distance of the pins? Those are two games where the pro's seem to play under the same conditions as the novice.QUOTE]

I think that is because bowling and darts have standards that are adhered to. You don't walk into a bowling alley, and have the person behind the counter ask you if you want the 60' lane or the 45' lane. Everyone plays on the same equipment, to the same set of standards. It has always bugged me that pool has so many table sizes, and spec differences.

I grew up playing on 1945 Brunswick Centennial 5' x 10' tables with tight pockets. I'll take a tight pocket table any day, over a bucket table.
Click to expand...
 
poolhustler said:
It all depends on what you want out of your table.

Tight pockets force you to play proper position.

Tight pockets force you to concentrate harder on each and every shot.

Tight pockets can be cheated (albeit a bit less :) )

Tight pockets are not for beginners.

Tight pockets make larger pockets seem like buckets.

Tight pockets can be frustrating as hell!!!

Triple C makes playing on my table look like child's play.
Click to expand...

I can't add much to that Poolhustler. When I ordered my Diamond table a year ago I decided to get the league cut pockets so my kids and friends would enjoy the table. After about a month I changed my mind and changed the order to pro cut and I could here the boys at Diamond cheer and high 5 each other. Aaron actually said to me " we new you would come around " I bought the table for me and yes I do torture my friends on this table but I do that anyway. My concentration level must be high or I don't get out. Yes it is frustrating as hell but on the flip side when you are on it is very gratifying.
 
If you got a olhausen champion pro table ,you will learn to shoot balls real
easy off of any rail,because the way the pocket facing are cut it will spit
balls out like a bubble gum machine.

PS.I bought this table before I knew about diamonds.Would like to sale for
$2,000 where I could buy a real table.Located in middle tennessee.
 
I have a Diamond Pro and I love it. It has taught me to be much more precise.
 
Johnnyt said:
I hear a lot of players comment on how hard the new Diamonds and other tables that have been tightened are to play. Most of them about that how you can't hit the long rail with the OB 6" or more before the corner pocket and make it, you can't shoot hard unless you hit center pocket, and longshots become much harder, are all true.

What I don't hear is that it's a very big problem to get position by cheating the pocket on them. There ain't much pocket there to cheat and if you have to shoot hard with English to can just as easily as not, miss the shot. I guess there better for the pros, but I question if they don't drive new players away from the game. I think if I still had a room I'd put the pocket size on the tables. This way new players to the game would know the differece the the tables pocket sizes and work their way up to the tight tables. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Pocket size is only one of the variables. Ball condition is just as critical. My GCIII with 4 year old Simonis 860 plays plenty tough when my Centennials are not polished. Anything above pocket speed striking a rail will not go. Polish those same Centennials and they'll fall from almost a diamond off. My corner pockets measure 4 5/8". That being said it's a whole lot tougher to bank balls with a recent wax job. They slide like crazy. I can only control conditions at home. I've played on Diamonds at DCC and they do play tough but I've never played on one with polished balls.

my $.02..........Paul
 
mosconiac said:
I wonder why you never hear dart players complain of a tight/long bullseye or a bowler complain about the size/spacing/distance of the pins? Those are two games where the pro's seem to play under the same conditions as the novice.
Click to expand...

In bowling and darts you can score by being close. In pool it is either in the pocket or it is out.
 
PoolHustler hit it on the head. I love that my table is tight. If I don't focus and not intensely relaxed, I don't make balls. That's going to improve my game tremendously. I'm still cheating the pocket with 4" pockets and doing hard stroke shots.
 
Johnnyt, I like your idea of posting the pocket sizes on tables in the pool room. Especially if you have a number of tables with different sized pockets.
 
bob c said:
In bowling and darts you can score by being close. In pool it is either in the pocket or it is out.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but on a standard table you've got 2 ball-widths plus a tad. When you're going well, it's like how can you not be at least that close? But 4-inch pockets, to me, take a lot of the fun out the game, making you lay off some of those aggressive spin and pound shots.
 
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I agree Paul. A buddy and I played last night and my Cents were pretty dirty. They were skidding all over the place.

I threw them in the Ballstar and man what a difference!

My vote is to create a standard for all tables and table manufacturers to adhere to. RKC should spearhead this effort!!

Russ.....
 
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